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[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

Solas' Veiless World

 

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If this is the world without the veil, why would Solas want this?

[Gervaise]

"This world is an abomination, it must never come pass."    It is statements like this from Solas that have me scratching my head  about his plans.   Presumably the only reason it is an abomination is because it is not how he envisioned it would be with the Veil removed and therefore he is convinced that it is Cory's method of achieving the same end as his own that is the cause of the problem, not the idea itself.    Plus with Solas will not be gradual deterioration but an immediate clean sweep where everyone dies at once rather than being picked off by demons piecemeal.     So he thinks can control the outcome.      It is a pity we can't call him out this but of course you have only seen the nightmare future if you did Hushed Whispers. 

 

Mind you, having introduced the possibility of time travel into this world, it may be this will be a way of "redeeming" Solas by showing him he is wrong.    Dorian still has the theoretical knowledge to do this, even if you chose Champions of the Just.     So if he could find a way of doing it and you take Solas into the future to see just how "perfect" his new world would be.    He realises his mistake and because he accompanies you, rather than just being there, he remembers his experience on his return.  Then again, knowing Solas, he would just convince  himself that his future self must have done it wrong in some way rather than the plan itself was at fault.  

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

"This world is an abomination, it must never come pass."    It is statements like this from Solas that have me scratching my head  about his plans.   Presumably the only reason it is an abomination is because it is not how he envisioned it would be with the Veil removed and therefore he is convinced that it is Cory's method of achieving the same end as his own that is the cause of the problem, not the idea itself.    Plus with Solas will not be gradual deterioration but an immediate clean sweep where everyone dies at once rather than being picked off by demons piecemeal.     So he thinks can control the outcome.      It is a pity we can't call him out this but of course you have only seen the nightmare future if you did Hushed Whispers. 

 

Mind you, having introduced the possibility of time travel into this world, it may be this will be a way of "redeeming" Solas by showing him he is wrong.    Dorian still has the theoretical knowledge to do this, even if you chose Champions of the Just.     So if he could find a way of doing it and you take Solas into the future to see just how "perfect" his new world would be.    He realises his mistake and because he accompanies you, rather than just being there, he remembers his experience on his return.  Then again, knowing Solas, he would just convince  himself that his future self must have done it wrong in some way rather than the plan itself was at fault.  

Yeah. Maybe since Solas created the Fade he can guide the process better, with a better outcome but he just seems like he is stumbling tbh.

[LightningPoodle]

Solas' plan is to destroy the Veil. This does not mean that demons will start rampaging and slaying mortals every which way you look. They would remain as spirits. Spirits only become demons when their purpose becomes corrupt. This is not Solas' goal, and it is unlikely to happen, given his knowledge on spirits.

 

What Solas wants is to bring back the days in which his people thrived. Back then, people and spirits co-existed. He wants that back. The destruction of the world will come from mortal hands, people fighting and warring between themselves, not from spirits.

[TobiTobsen]

Solas' plan is to destroy the Veil. This does not mean that demons will start rampaging and slaying mortals every which way you look. They would remain as spirits. Spirits only become demons when their purpose becomes corrupt. This is not Solas' goal, and it is unlikely to happen, given his knowledge on spirits.

 

What Solas wants is to bring back the days in which his people thrived. Back then, people and spirits co-existed. He wants that back. The destruction of the world will come from mortal hands, people fighting and warring between themselves, not from spirits.

 

They also become demons out of confusion when they are brought into the real world without their consent. Solas explains that much when you encounter rifts.

 

So what exactly does he think will happen the second he collapses the entire veil?

[Knight of Dane]

Well you know supposedly the fade is shaped by the dreams of mortals. Corypheus ideal world was one where he, through the nightmare, controlled the world using demons.

 

Solas does not view the veil with that same ideal. so it is not far fetched to think that Solas tearing the veil will have a different outcome. He views Corypheus result as a abomination because he tore the veil "wrongly"

[Navasha]

I think the concept is that without the veil, there would be no real 'demons'.    Demons are a corruption of a spirit that seeks to enter the world across the veil.   However, once there and cut off from the fade they go 'crazy'.     Solas says in one of your conversations that spirits seek to join the living and demons are that dream gone wrong.  

 

It is the veil that is the problem.   The act of crossing it whether through weak areas, blood magic, or pulled through rifts corrupts the spirit.   That is what Solas found an abomination about the world Cory created.  

 

In Solas' view about the world without a veil, he describes spirits like forces of nature.   The wind, or a powerful river.  

[Gervaise]

In Solas mind there are only spirits but what of the Nightmare Demon?   He even says something about this being one of the first of emotions.    It must have existed before the Veil came into being.   Did the ancient elves have no nightmares?    Surely if Falon'Din was as blood thirsty as he says then they must have had a few nightmares about him?    They must also have had a few nightmares about whatever it was they buried in the Deep Roads.

 

The Forbidden Ones are also difficult to categorise.    They are regarded as demons by those in the material world, yet Imshael is offended at the notion and calls himself a Choice Spirit.    It would seem to depend on whether you consider there are good spirits and bad demons, or simply as Merrill used to say, that all spirits are dangerous.   Felassan makes this point when Briala says that what the Keeper has done in summoning the demon is "wrong".    He suggests that she should rather call his actions "stupid". 

 

So if the Dalish regard all spirits as rather dangerous wild animals, then in taking down the Veil, Solas is setting them free to rampage across the world.   Some will be benign and helpful, others will prey upon those who are unable to defend themselves.     In any case, from what he said about what would have happened had Cory not survived the explosion, the first effect of removing the Veil will be "the fires of chaos".    Only if you survive this will you have to worry about the denizens of the Fade that now have free access to you, not to mention a group of rather resentful and vengeful evanuris.

[Incantrix]

I think the ancient Elves already knew how to deal with spirits remaining as such. It's only mundane races like humans who corrupt spirits into demons. Solas explains how easily a spirit can change its' purpose in his personal quest.

[Wulfram]

Theory 1: This isn't a veil-less world, its a world with a shattered veil. Demons still have to pass through the veil and this still twists them.

Theory 2: Demons are evil in part because people see them so. They're shaped by the thoughts of mortals into monsters. Once Solas kills off all the mortals, that won't be a problem.

[Ashagar]

We should keep in mind that there are already demons in the fade along with spirits and some such as the nightmare have grown extremely powerful feeding on the negative emotions of mortals over thousands of years, something that is only going to become worse if Solas brings down the veil which he himselves states will likely cause countless numbers of people to die horribly.

[Dai Grepher]

I think Solas is a walking contradiction. So don't expect much of what he says to make sense. He has plans, that are based on delusions, that are based on dreams of the Fade. It's possible that he's misremembering everything, and that what he wants to "restore" can never exist as he thinks it can.

 

For example...

 

What if the Veil isn't what destroyed the worlds in the Crossroads? What if this is just Solas' assumption? What if the destruction of the Crossroads was due to the evanuris being sealed away? Meaning, it was the evanuris who were keeping those worlds intact? It's no different from the Fade worlds. They exist only so long as the spirits, demons, or people are connected to them. When you "wake up", the dream world you were in ends. When a spirit "dies", the Fade world they created ceases to be.

 

Perhaps the Crossroads worked in a similar fashion. If so, powerful minds like those of the evanuris will be required to keep the worlds together. Moreover, what if the more extraordinary humans are capable of creating such worlds? Like the Hero of Ferelden, or Avernus, or the Champion of Kirkwall, or the Baroness (though I know she's dead, but she's an example), or those in Tevinter? If Solas is successful, he might just find many "empires" popping up all around his.

 

As for the bad future, Solas didn't experience it. So it's moot. Even if he had, he would just delude himself by saying that he would not let that happen, and it won't since he will be the one in control. To which I would say, "Like how you were in control when you let Corypheus find the orb?"

[Captmorgan72]

Solas' plan is to destroy the Veil. This does not mean that demons will start rampaging and slaying mortals every which way you look. They would remain as spirits. Spirits only become demons when their purpose becomes corrupt. This is not Solas' goal, and it is unlikely to happen, given his knowledge on spirits.

 

What Solas wants is to bring back the days in which his people thrived. Back then, people and spirits co-existed. He wants that back. The destruction of the world will come from mortal hands, people fighting and warring between themselves, not from spirits.

This. We are seeing a world where the veil has been removed and most or all of the spirits have been corrupted by the actions of mortals. Solas wants to restore the world as it once was which would kill everyone except his immortal elves. Without the influence of mortals, the peaceful relationship between spirit and elves will be restored. 

[9TailsFox]

Spirits/demons is same think they shape world based on peoples minds. Solas world without the veil will be nothing like Cory world without veil.

[Ashagar]

Some people seem to be forgetting that there are already demons  in the fade and some like the nightmare that have been feeding on the negative emotions negative emotions for thousands of years and have grown extremely powerful and they won't magically turn into spirits just because Solas lifts the veil.

[Ellawynn]

When you "wake up", the dream world you were in ends. 

This is true in our world where dreams are just products of your mind. In Thedas, dreams take place in the Fade, which is shaped by spirits and the memories of mortals. The dream you're in doesn't just disappear because you woke up. Think of the Fade section in Origins. Those were dreams crafted by Sloth and maintained by his minions, and they didn't vanish because you woke your companion up. As for spirits - Solas himself says that after his friend was killed, he returned to the place where she dwelt in the Fade. Meaning it didn't disappear either. So, no, I doubt Crossroads were maintained by the Evanuris and only fell apart because they were gone.

 

Agreed about Solas being often contradictory, though. I wouldn't say he's deluded or misremembering because, frankly, there's no evidence for that. I think it's more because he's always leaving things out or talking in doublespeak - Trespasser was a rare moment where he told us some stuff straight, but he still kept a lot under wraps. It's unspeakably frustrating.

[Lumix19]

To be fair, the Veil was basically broken in the dark future, the Breach probably twisted most spirits into demons as it spread across the world. Solas seems to want to remove the Veil, not break it. It's the difference between breaking a piece of glass and removing it from the frame (I would assume).

[leaguer of one]

First of all Solas was taking about the red lyrium and demons powered by Cory.

[myahele]

We also have to keep in mind that not all spirits are exactly benevolent either

 

There the spirit of Valor that will go around and challenge "worthy opponents" then there's also that Spirit of command who's sole purpose is to give orders to people

[Wren]

So, in the Hushed Whispers reality, was the veil really gone or just further rendered?  I mean, there's a part where your quizzy closes a fade rift in the bad future.  So, how was there a fade rift if there's no longer a veil?  

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

So, in the Hushed Whispers reality, was the veil really gone or just further rendered?  I mean, there's a part where your quizzy closes a fade rift in the bad future.  So, how was there a fade rift if there's no longer a veil?  

Bioware **** up? Solas says the Veil is shattered, there is no boundary between the world and the Fade but...there are rifts.

[Neoleviathan]

Bioware **** up? Solas says the Veil is shattered, there is no boundary between the world and the Fade but...there are rifts.

Perhaps it can be explained away that the rifts we see are just connecting back in time to when the veil is still holding?

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Time is the factor.

 

The natural but slow over time way as depicted in the future - is causing massive suffering and torment for the population as it is a long process.

The way Solas intended to do it would be very quick. Instantly merging the worlds. 

 

Consider lava and magma from vulcanos slowly terraforming the world. The populace would slowly but painfully burn and die.  
Then consider the world instantly changeing to the "end destination" skipping the molten lava part straight to the new terraformed world.

 

The major difference here is that Solas considers his goal a quick and merciful "euthanasia" while the rift's slow process is like torturing someone to death. 

[Lumix19]

We also have to keep in mind that not all spirits are exactly benevolent either

 

There the spirit of Valor that will go around and challenge "worthy opponents" then there's also that Spirit of command who's sole purpose is to give orders to people

Perhaps but that's just a reflection of mortal concepts of Valor and Command. I think Solas thinks of spirits as something like instant karma, he notes that the reason hunger demons exist is because they reflect the prevalence of hunger in mortal society - "Mankind has itself to blame for demons".

 

Perhaps he feels that if the Veil comes down the demons that will take mankind will simply be a due penance that they have avoided - something I can sympathise with.

[Ashagar]

I seriously doubt though that all demons were spawned by the mortal races though and that a sizable number weren't spawned by the actions of the ancient elves, especially when you take into the accounts of  the sort of things the elven god kings and their close followers liked to pull off and inflict.