88 réponses à ce sujet

[Madmoe77]

Perhaps but that's just a reflection of mortal concepts of Valor and Command. I think Solas thinks of spirits as something like instant karma, he notes that the reason hunger demons exist is because they reflect the prevalence of hunger in mortal society - "Mankind has itself to blame for demons".

 

Perhaps he feels that if the Veil comes down the demons that will take mankind will simply be a due penance that they have avoided - something I can sympathise with.

 

I bolded what I am responding too. When Solas says things like this it strikes me as vain and naive. It suggests that 'mankind' being human or mundane only create demons. This isn't true at all. We know that Dalish can cause demons too. We know that it is possible for other races to cause the same with the new Saarath ability spewing demons. 

 

Earlier in thread someone stated that Solas isn't contradicting but using doublespeak. What is doublespeak if not for deliberate contradiction? When first used in the novel 1984 doublespeak itself spun ignorance and repetition in the states of power. Just like Solas here-he may not have a clue what he means, but he certainly feels whatever that is is the right course of action. We still have much to learn about Solas-what he says and what he means are not one and the same. What if Flemythal reappears cackles with laughter and declares everything Solas said as fodder? People still argue on the forums over the merit of Loghain's actions in Origins. Resolve is not for the people of this age. It may not even be for Thedas.   

[Madmoe77]

Yeah but they literally will only challenge one who could actually fight back. And according to what we've experienced, the spirit of command rewards those who carry out their orders. Furthermore, the spirit of command didn't really have any malicious goals in mind. 

 

I'm waiting on a true spirit of gluttony! May Dragon Age 4 have a Nugdog eating contest with a demon of insatiable gluttony! 

 

Seriously we need less spirit forms-without the blurriness of other emotions, motivations or virtues being ignored of their influence. Take the gluttony example; what level of hunger grows into that? Appetite for what? Where does the concept begin to water down it's effective use?  

[Dean_the_Young]

Solas' plan is to destroy the Veil. This does not mean that demons will start rampaging and slaying mortals every which way you look. They would remain as spirits. Spirits only become demons when their purpose becomes corrupt. This is not Solas' goal, and it is unlikely to happen, given his knowledge on spirits.

 

Except, it is- because spirits also become demons when forced into contact with the real world, Solas's goal in giving Corypheus the orb was for Corypheus to start the Breach, and what the Breach does, among other things, is force a lot of spirits into contact with the real world at which point they become demons. The Breach, and the raw chaos it unleashed that included demons, was the intent.

 

This was an acceptable cost for Solas's ambition- just like the elves and mages and elven mages who would die in the merging. Solas doesn't have some 'must never harm spirits' rule that would prohibit him from turning spirits into demons if it let him advance his agenda.

 

 

 

 

What Solas wants is to bring back the days in which his people thrived. Back then, people and spirits co-existed. He wants that back. The destruction of the world will come from mortal hands, people fighting and warring between themselves, not from spirits.

 

 

Saying that his people 'thrived' is stretching it: Solas spent an indeterminate but extensive time leading a rebellion against his people, who subjugated the elves into an oligarchial caste system with systemic slavery and waged a terrible conflict against the dwarves and/or titans.

[Mlady]

I was chatting with Solas in the future world last night and chose that dialogue option. I was shocked at how honest he was and how this was more like a setback and would not change his mind about his plan. Redemption will strongly be based upon approval no doubt, since at this point he can still be neutral with your Inquisitor and only seems to truly change after the balcony scene.

[Gervaise]

Have been thinking about how to stop Solas again and how I view his actions morally.  The bit that has always bothered me by the "redemption" option is that for Solas to be "redeemed" he would have to admit he is wrong.   The Inquisitor even says that they are going to prove him wrong.    Yet Solas has already said that he regards such concepts as right and wrong, good and evil as too simplistic.   

 

Then I thought again about an incident in Masked Empire involving Felassan, an agent of Fen'Harel, and according to Cole his friend.   Therefore to a large extent I would expect him to share Solas' moral viewpoint.   The evidence suggests he does.    He opts to help Briala over the Dalish clan because she asks for his help and in fact we know now it fitted with his orders.    He saw nothing wrong in leaving the demon to rip apart the clan, even though it would kill every man, woman and child.  It is actually ironic that the supposed "evil" demon, Imshael, who insists he is a choice spirit, who decides to spare the children (mentioned in WoT2).   Now earlier Briala actually says that she thinks the Dalish were "wrong" to summon a demon.    Felassan points out that the Dalish do not regard spirits as good and evil, but merely dangerous.    So he corrects her statement to say that actually the Dalish are "stupid" for summoning the demon.

 

So the key to stopping Solas by the persuade method is not to show him he is wrong but that he is stupid.    In other words his plan will not succeed in the way he wants it to.     Whilst it might take a lot to persuade Solas he is stupid, nevertheless it is likely to be easier than actually proving to him that he is wrong.  This will not redeem him since morally he was still willingly to go through his plan but has abandoned it for reasons of practicality.     This would then leave him the potential to develop a moral character and thus be redeemed or simply carry on as before, simply following a different plan that is more likely to achieve his aims.

[Mlady]

Have been thinking about how to stop Solas again and how I view his actions morally.  The bit that has always bothered me by the "redemption" option is that for Solas to be "redeemed" he would have to admit he is wrong.   The Inquisitor even says that they are going to prove him wrong.    Yet Solas has already said that he regards such concepts as right and wrong, good and evil as too simplistic.   

 

Then I thought again about an incident in Masked Empire involving Felassan, an agent of Fen'Harel, and according to Cole his friend.   Therefore to a large extent I would expect him to share Solas' moral viewpoint.   The evidence suggests he does.    He opts to help Briala over the Dalish clan because she asks for his help and in fact we know now it fitted with his orders.    He saw nothing wrong in leaving the demon to rip apart the clan, even though it would kill every man, woman and child.  It is actually ironic that the supposed "evil" demon, Imshael, who insists he is a choice spirit, who decides to spare the children (mentioned in WoT2).   Now earlier Briala actually says that she thinks the Dalish were "wrong" to summon a demon.    Felassan points out that the Dalish do not regard spirits as good and evil, but merely dangerous.    So he corrects her statement to say that actually the Dalish are "stupid" for summoning the demon.

 

So the key to stopping Solas by the persuade method is not to show him he is wrong but that he is stupid.    In other words his plan will not succeed in the way he wants it to.     Whilst it might take a lot to persuade Solas he is stupid, nevertheless it is likely to be easier than actually proving to him that he is wrong.  This will not redeem him since morally he was still willingly to go through his plan but has abandoned it for reasons of practicality.     This would then leave him the potential to develop a moral character and thus be redeemed or simply carry on as before, simply following a different plan that is more likely to achieve his aims.

 

I think that's what will happen too.

 

If you romance him, he will nearly give up his plans for you, but stops himself and pushes you away, and still goes through with it.

 

If you drink from the Well and tell him you can't change the past, but you'll make the present better and with each failure, you'll learn and try until you do it right. This inspires him to keep going through with his plan.

 

Just talking him down will not do anything. Not even in his most passionate moments, will he sway, or if he respects you greatly, he will hope you prove him wrong but doubts you will succeed. Either we find cold hard facts that prove his plan will just make things worse and fail or stop him behind his back like we did with Corypheus, by cutting off anything he could use to help aid him.

[In Exile]

Saying that his people 'thrived' is stretching it: Solas spent an indeterminate but extensive time leading a rebellion against his people, who subjugated the elves into an oligarchial caste system with systemic slavery and waged a terrible conflict against the dwarves and/or titans.

 

Yeah. People totally seem to misunderstand Solas. He sees what he did as the equivalent of mutilating his people: stripping away from them the essence of what made them "elves". He doesn't exactly regret doing it - he tells you outright it was the best option open to him, but he's driven by guilt over what he did to the elves; what they lost. What he's trying to restore isn't the "Elvhen" as a society (though he does want a return to his old world) so much as to assuage his guilt over his mutilating the elves. 

[Mlady]

Yeah. People totally seem to misunderstand Solas. He sees what he did as the equivalent of mutilating his people: stripping away from them the essence of what made them "elves". He doesn't exactly regret doing it - he tells you outright it was the best option open to him, but he's driven by guilt over what he did to the elves; what they lost. What he's trying to restore isn't the "Elvhen" as a society (though he does want a return to his old world) so much as to assuage his guilt over his mutilating the elves. 

 

I thought it was obvious he was trying to restore the magic (just like Sandal says), not rebuild an empire filled with elves. He even said he saw people as tranquil because they were cut off from that magic. If anything, he would most likely want to live in a world with spirits roaming free.

[In Exile]

I thought it was obvious he was trying to restore the magic (just like Sandal says), not rebuild an empire filled with elves. He even said he saw people as tranquil because they were cut off from that magic. If anything, he would most likely want to live in a world with spirits roaming free.

 

The more we learn about "spirits", the more we see that they had a very fundamental connection to the old elves. It explains more of why Solas sees spirits as his friends, and initially takes about the removal of the Veil from the POV of interactions with spirits.  

[Mlady]

The more we learn about "spirits", the more we see that they had a very fundamental connection to the old elves. It explains more of why Solas sees spirits as his friends, and initially takes about the removal of the Veil from the POV of interactions with spirits.  

 

As early as Haven he talks with us about spirits being as common as trees in a world free of the Veil. That's the life he wants back. Cole's comment about the faces behind the mirror hurting makes me wonder though. We know it can't be the Evanuris. unless he's gained remorse for their long-time suffering, but after seeing him kill mages for a mistake with Wisdom, I can't see him feeling anything for those horrible false Gods.

 

Based on Cole's comments in Trespasser, some think Solas' was a spirit first, then an elf later because of Mythal.

[Ellawynn]

-Cut-

There's no hard evidence backing up Solas' claim? He was there. He lived it. Hell, he may have helped create it. Same for the spirit in the Shattered Library - it lived there, not to mention it exists to collect and share knowledge, so it probably knows. If we're going to say he's wrong because there's no hard evidence - neither is there hard evidence for your theory. So...?

 

*Sigh* And yes, the Fade changes - because new spirits and memories come along to change it. There is nothing to suggest that things in the Fade fall apart when their creator dies, and really quite a few things to suggest that memories and emotions continue after their creator dies (Think the memories we find in Nightmare's dimension. Think the memories Solas himself explores. Think the visions we find at Soldier's Peak, which are said to be because the Fade is bleeding through in those spots. And again, think on that comment about returning to Wisdom's home) So what if some spirit calls a section of their domain? The desk I'm sitting at right now is my domain, that doesn't mean it'll disappear when I die. It's just a way of saying they own it.

 

Solas knows spirits and the Fade and all the places between better than just about any other character thus far, except maybe Mythal. Unless another ancient being with a deep understanding of such things stumbles along, I'm going to trust his knowledge on the matter.

[squidney2k1]

Solas' solution to his own guilt over what he did to the Elves & the elvens "gods" is to restore them...by murdering everyone else and causing suffering en mass, to return to the elven "Glory Days"....which were also full of suffering and mistreatment.

Solas is also blind to see that his vision for the future will also greatly harm the spirits he so cares about. He even admits that most spirits want nothing to do with our world and it is when they are summoned or forced into this world that they become corrupted, lost, murderous and vengeful....yet that's exactly what he's going to cause by destroying The Veil.

Solas isn't just going to cause suffering across our world...but the spirit world as well. That not only makes him a hypocrite, but an idiot as well.


I'm hoping The Maker sees what Solas is trying to accomplish and finally returns to the realm to slap some sense into him.

Solas: "I sealed them all away cuz it was the only way to control their destructive nature....oh wait, excuse me while I do the same thing with my own destructive nature, on a much larger scale. That cool, k?"
Maker: *facepalm* "This is why i keep leaving..."

[myahele]

I wonder what Solas expected when he created the Veil to prevent the Evanuris and the Forgotten Ones (don't forget about them)from re-entering the Unchanging World and vice-versa? If the Evanuris could not pass through, then surely regular Spirits won't be able to as well.

[Roninbarista]

"I am Grim and Fatalistic"- Solas.

I forgot he said that.

Poor man likes to run into a wall at full speed, crash, then do it again. Very Wile E. Coyote.

[Roninbarista]

The most powerful demons yet encountered are the pride demons, perhaps because they, among all their kind, most resemble men; as clever and manipulative as the desire demon, with a penchant for cruel irony that is almost human. While the demons of desire largely engage in the bribery of mortals, pride will use mortals' own best nature against them. Clever men outwit themselves. Strong men crush themselves. Humble men forget themselves. Jealous men fear themselves. They turn corruption and ruin into an art.
—From Beyond the Veil: Spirits and Demons by Enchanter Mirdromel
 
Seen from the side a Pride Demon has 3 eyes placed exactly like in his self-made portrait.
 
 
As for the future in that quest, the Veil being torn is just the Breach expanding to cover everything. It's just a huge hole into Blinky's realms basically. You know, the Nightmare Demon.

Good observation.

[Lumix19]

I bolded what I am responding too. When Solas says things like this it strikes me as vain and naive. It suggests that 'mankind' being human or mundane only create demons. This isn't true at all. We know that Dalish can cause demons too. We know that it is possible for other races to cause the same with the new Saarath ability spewing demons.

Earlier in thread someone stated that Solas isn't contradicting but using doublespeak. What is doublespeak if not for deliberate contradiction? When first used in the novel 1984 doublespeak itself spun ignorance and repetition in the states of power. Just like Solas here-he may not have a clue what he means, but he certainly feels whatever that is is the right course of action. We still have much to learn about Solas-what he says and what he means are not one and the same. What if Flemythal reappears cackles with laughter and declares everything Solas said as fodder? People still argue on the forums over the merit of Loghain's actions in Origins. Resolve is not for the people of this age. It may not even be for Thedas.

I think Solas merely meant that mortal races in general, cut off from the visible and tangible effects of their immorality, create the "influence" that births demons. Hunger demons exist because true hunger exists, sloth because of apathy etc. I don't think he was specifically calling out humanity. Just that the Veil tucks everything away so most people don't really know or care about what influence they have over the Fade and it's denizens.

[Ashagar]

Fear, Despair, horror, pride and terror... As I stated before I would be greatly surprised if such demons didn't exist when the anceint elves ruled given the elven god kings behaviors.

[Tielis]

http://loquaciousqua...ion-solas-tears

 

[Dai Grepher]

There's no hard evidence backing up Solas' claim? He was there. He lived it. Hell, he may have helped create it. Same for the spirit in the Shattered Library - it lived there, not to mention it exists to collect and share knowledge, so it probably knows. If we're going to say he's wrong because there's no hard evidence - neither is there hard evidence for your theory. So...?

 

*Sigh* And yes, the Fade changes - because new spirits and memories come along to change it. There is nothing to suggest that things in the Fade fall apart when their creator dies, and really quite a few things to suggest that memories and emotions continue after their creator dies (Think the memories we find in Nightmare's dimension. Think the memories Solas himself explores. Think the visions we find at Soldier's Peak, which are said to be because the Fade is bleeding through in those spots. And again, think on that comment about returning to Wisdom's home) So what if some spirit calls a section of their domain? The desk I'm sitting at right now is my domain, that doesn't mean it'll disappear when I die. It's just a way of saying they own it.

 

Solas knows spirits and the Fade and all the places between better than just about any other character thus far, except maybe Mythal. Unless another ancient being with a deep understanding of such things stumbles along, I'm going to trust his knowledge on the matter.

 

Solas could be lying, or he may not remember it correctly. Or he may be mistaken.

 

The spirit was shattered itself. It probably remembers things incorrectly. Logically, it shouldn't remember anything. According to it, the Veil destroyed the library. So how would it know what the Veil was or who made it happen if the Veil is what caused all the chaos? It's like asking someone in a blast zone what caused the explosion. They wouldn't remember or know. Only those who observed it from a safe distance would be able to tell you, and only after investigating it.

 

It collects knowledge, but who ever said that knowledge was reliable? Solas himself says that memories in the Fade are unreliable. The spirit may have gathered bits and pieces of information that suggest an incorrect conclusion, like how Viddasala gathered information about Solas and assumed the Inquisition was helping him.

 

I'm not saying Solas is definately wrong. Just that he might be wrong. We need evidence. There is no hard evidence against his claim either, or at least none that I know of. But I have yet to search for evidences that confirm or refute his claim. When I find evidence, then I will form my own theory. That's how all my theories work. I need to find the facts first.

 

Yes but memories are different. I'm talking about actual "worlds" inside the Fade. Bits and pieces can survive the changing realm, but not entire kingdoms. Solas' sadness is that entire structures fell to ruin, among other things. I'm saying that those structures were likely tied to the consciousness of an evanuris, and separating them from it might be what caused the collapse, not the Veil itself.

 

Your desk is real though. The Fade is not real. It is thought. If you die, your brain will cease thought. That's what I'm saying about the worlds inside the Fade.

 

You trust his knowledge, but do you trust him? And he's already made mistakes before. How do you know he isn't mistaken in this as well?

[Ellawynn]

Solas could be lying, or he may not remember it correctly. Or he may be mistaken.

 

The spirit was shattered itself. It probably remembers things incorrectly. Logically, it shouldn't remember anything. According to it, the Veil destroyed the library. So how would it know what the Veil was or who made it happen if the Veil is what caused all the chaos. It's like asking someone in a blast zone what caused the explosion. They wouldn't remember or know. Only those who observed it from a safe distance would be able to tell you, and only after investigating it.

 

It collects knowledge, but who ever said that knowledge was reliable? Solas himself says that memories in the Fade are unreliable. The spirit may have gathered bits and pieces of information that suggest an incorrect conclusion, like how Viddasala gathered information about Solas and assumed the Inquisition was helping him.

 

I'm not saying Solas is definately wrong. Just that he might be wrong. We need evidence. There is no hard evidence against his claim either, or at least none that I know of. But I have yet to search for evidences that confirm or refute his claim. When I find evidence, then I will form my own theory. That's how all my theories work. I need to find the facts first.

 

Yes but memories are different. I'm talking about actual "worlds" inside the Fade. Bits and pieces can survive the changing realm, but not entire kingdoms. Solas' sadness is that entire structures fell to ruin, among other things. I'm saying that those structures were likely tied to the consciousness of an evanuris, and separating them from it might be what caused the collapse, not the Veil itself.

 

Your desk is real though. The Fade is not real. It is thought. If you die, your brain will cease thought. That's what I'm saying about the worlds inside the Fade.

 

You trust his knowledge, but do you trust him? And he's already made mistakes before. How do you know he isn't mistaken in this as well?

 I trust his knowledge here because it's usually his plans that are mistakes. His information typically is not, especially when that information relates to the Fade. He has no reason to lie about this. We have no reason to think he's mistaken. We certainly have no reason to think he's flat-out confused. There's nothing to suggest it.

 

And what, precisely, is the difference between memories and "worlds" inside the Fade? Do you mean the pocket dimensions between here and the Fade? Because that's A ) something different entirely, B ) even closer to the physical world than the Fade, and thus, more likely to subject to it's rules - and so, less likely to vanish because it's creator disappeared. On the subject of it's creator - do we even know that was the Evanuris? Do we know it wasn't some other collection of ancient elves? Sylaise or someone gifted a palace to June - but she sure as hell didn't make it herself. So why would such things be tied to her will? 

 

If the spirit were incapable of figuring out why the Library was destroyed by the Veil, why would it provide us that explanation? In plenty of other situations it settled for simply saying "I don't know." But this particular one it lies, or makes up information, or jumps to conclusions? Why? It doesn't make any sense.

 

And you still have yet to deal with the fact that Wisdom's domain remained even though, by your theory, it should've disappeared.

[Phoe77]

Except, it is- because spirits also become demons when forced into contact with the real world, Solas's goal in giving Corypheus the orb was for Corypheus to start the Breach, and what the Breach does, among other things, is force a lot of spirits into contact with the real world at which point they become demons. The Breach, and the raw chaos it unleashed that included demons, was the intent.

 

The way I understood it, Solas' intent was to have Corypheus unlock the orb for him since he was still too weak to do it himself.  Presumably, if things had gone according to his plan, the breach wouldn't have mattered because he was going to take down the Veil soon after.  

[ApostleinTriumph]

The way I understood it, Solas' intent was to have Corypheus unlock the orb for him since he was still too weak to do it himself.  Presumably, if things had gone according to his plan, the breach wouldn't have mattered because he was going to take down the Veil soon after.  

 

Erm, why didn't he just simply wait until he's more powerful? This part of the writing is really bothering me.

 

He waited for centuries after all, in sleep. He could wait a while longer, and we already see how strong he's become after the events of DAI+2 years.

[Dai Grepher]

 I trust his knowledge here because it's usually his plans that are mistakes. His information typically is not, especially when that information relates to the Fade. He has no reason to lie about this. We have no reason to think he's mistaken. We certainly have no reason to think he's flat-out confused. There's nothing to suggest it.

 

And what, precisely, is the difference between memories and "worlds" inside the Fade? Do you mean the pocket dimensions between here and the Fade? Because that's A ) something different entirely, B ) even closer to the physical world than the Fade, and thus, more likely to subject to it's rules - and so, less likely to vanish because it's creator disappeared. On the subject of it's creator - do we even know that was the Evanuris? Do we know it wasn't some other collection of ancient elves? Sylaise or someone gifted a palace to June - but she sure as hell didn't make it herself. So why would such things be tied to her will? 

 

If the spirit were incapable of figuring out why the Library was destroyed by the Veil, why would it provide us that explanation? In plenty of other situations it settled for simply saying "I don't know." But this particular one it lies, or makes up information, or jumps to conclusions? Why? It doesn't make any sense.

 

And you still have yet to deal with the fact that Wisdom's domain remained even though, by your theory, it should've disappeared.

 

His knowledge? You mean like how he knew the humans weren't even real people? Or how he knew Corypheus would die unlocking the orb? Or how he knew you were killed by Alexius' spell? Or how he knew Mythal was completely dead? Solas thinks he knows what is what. He might be lying to make himself seem more powerful and in control to the Inquisitor. He might be lying to justify his plans. He might be mistaken because he slept for so long and forgot the true events. He might be mistaken because the Veil affected him negatively as it did the evanuris. He might be confused because the spirits in the Shattered Library were confused. He might be confused because Mythal made him forget what really happened. The last one is based on something Cole said in Trespasser when you talk to him at the palace and how she made him forget. It could be related to Solas, or it could be some obscure crossover reference.

 

The difference is that what you make in the Fade is a product of your will. Valor explains this in the magi origin. He created weapons from will. The worlds inside the crossroads, or even the real world (without the Veil interrupting the magic flowing to them) could have been the product of the evanuris' will. So cutting them off from it may have caused the structures to collapse. Would they vanish entirely? No, because they were partly in the real world. But it still caused them to collapse and degrade.

 

If she made it with her own will, then it wouldn't matter if she gifted it to June or not. It's whoever willed it into being.

 

I'm saying the spirit may not remember the details of it. The spirit might remember vague images of it, or may have recovered fragments of what happened, but is now presenting the best recollection possible, which is incorrect. In other words, it doesn't have the whole story. Think back to the Herald. What we saw play right after the character creation screen isn't what we saw play when we recovered the memories in the Fade.

 

In the other cases we asked things that were too specific, or about subjects the spirit could not recall even in the slightest.

 

Did Wisdom's domain remain? We have nothing but Solas' vague statement to go on. But as I recall, he only mentioned that Wisdom may appear in the same place, though in a different form. What is this place? Is it Wisdom's domain? Is it the Raw Fade? There are no specifics on the matter. And even if it is Wisdom's domain, is it the same as it was when Wisdom occupied it? Or has it changed form, thus no longer the same place?

[Ellawynn]

His knowledge? You mean like how he knew the humans weren't even real people? Or how he knew Corypheus would die unlocking the orb? Or how he knew you were killed by Alexius' spell? Or how he knew Mythal was completely dead? Solas thinks he knows what is what. He might be lying to make himself seem more powerful and in control to the Inquisitor. He might be lying to justify his plans. He might be mistaken because he slept for so long and forgot the true events. He might be mistaken because the Veil affected him negatively as it did the evanuris. He might be confused because the spirits in the Shattered Library were confused. He might be confused because Mythal made him forget what really happened. The last one is based on something Cole said in Trespasser when you talk to him at the palace and how she made him forget. It could be related to Solas, or it could be some obscure crossover reference.

 

The difference is that what you make in the Fade is a product of your will. Valor explains this in the magi origin. He created weapons from will. The worlds inside the crossroads, or even the real world (without the Veil interrupting the magic flowing to them) could have been the product of the evanuris' will. So cutting them off from it may have caused the structures to collapse. Would they vanish entirely? No, because they were partly in the real world. But it still caused them to collapse and degrade.

 

If she made it with her own will, then it wouldn't matter if she gifted it to June or not. It's whoever willed it into being.

 

I'm saying the spirit may not remember the details of it. The spirit might remember vague images of it, or may have recovered fragments of what happened, but is now presenting the best recollection possible, which is incorrect. In other words, it doesn't have the whole story. Think back to the Herald. What we saw play right after the character creation screen isn't what we saw play when we recovered the memories in the Fade.

 

In the other cases we asked things that were too specific, or about subjects the spirit could not recall even in the slightest.

 

Did Wisdom's domain remain? We have nothing but Solas' vague statement to go on. But as I recall, he only mentioned that Wisdom may appear in the same place, though in a different form. What is this place? Is it Wisdom's domain? Is it the Raw Fade? There are no specifics on the matter. And even if it is Wisdom's domain, is it the same as it was when Wisdom occupied it? Or has it changed form, thus no longer the same place?

Yeah, notice how you're grasping at straws to defame the one person who probably knows anything about this subject, all to justify a theory that requires several large assumptions on the nature of the Fade, assumptions which are pretty often contradicted? Like, at this point, I'm not sure what else to say. Surely you see how tautological this is? "Solas is delusional." / "Oh, why do you say that?" / "Because he keeps contradicting this theory I have." / "Well, how do you know he's not right?" / "Because he's delusional."

 

*Sigh* Why would he lying about this when there are far better lies he could've told? ("My plan is harmless and will kill no one," for starters) Why would he be mistaken or misremembering, when we've seen nothing to suggest he is? All the points he was wrong on before didn't relate to something he knew so intimately, and furthermore, they're assumptions that everyone else made as well (Seriously, if someone vaporizes a person in front of you, what would your first assumption be? "Clearly they've jumped a year into the future!" or "Gosh, must be dead.") If he's been addled by the Veil, or by sleep - prove it, then.

 

Onto "The Fade is constructed from will." Yeah, that's correct. But notice how the Valor spirit doesn't proceed to tell you that everything he's made will disappear if he's killed. Notice how no one else ever tells you this either. It's an assumption you've made, justified by other assumptions you've made, contradicted by a character who is, frankly, far more knowledgeable on the subject than you.

 

On the subject of June's place - that's the thing. She didn't will it into being. A bunch of slaves and some random architects did. So we have no reason to assume the Crossroads or the Vir Dirthara or any of it was based, specifically, on the Evanuris' will. And another thought occurs to me - the stones in the Crossroads and the Library. The ones you can activate into returning to their place. "They remember where they were supposed to be," Cole says. But who's remembering? Not the Inquisitor, not anyone with them. The stones themselves are. They're self-maintaining, and can reconstruct themselves. They're not dependent on their creator's will to continue. In fact, that they can remember and stray from their creator's will at all shows that they've some semblance of life of their own.

 

On Wisdom - Solas says the he returned to the place where she used to be. So no, no specifics. But given that there was a place to return to...

 

I mean, I highly doubt a millenia-old Wisdom spirits just hung out in the raw Fade all her life.

[Phoe77]

Erm, why didn't he just simply wait until he's more powerful? This part of the writing is really bothering me.

 

He waited for centuries after all, in sleep. He could wait a while longer, and we already see how strong he's become after the events of DAI+2 years.

 

He might not have become powerful enough on his own.  The Veil supposedly limits the degree to which magic can permeate the physical world, so it's not beyond the realm of possibility that he wouldn't attain the same level of power he had in the past.  I assume that he only reason he's so much more powerful in Trespasser is because he absorbed Mythal.  Given how close he was to her, it's not hard to believe that doing that was a last resort.

 

If Corypheus didn't just so happen to be functionally immortal, Solas probably could have put his plan into action very soon after the Conclave exploded without having to eat Mythal's soul in the process.