75 réponses à ce sujet

[TraiHarder]

Heh.  In my pure-evil worldstate, he's basically Freddy Krueger.  Coming back from tranquil is possible, but what if he's murdering people in dreams...?

 

What? You make no sense was he murdering people before in his dreams? Noooooooo ok then .

[robertthebard]

While i was going through my DAKeep I came across Feynriels choices an forgot all about our poo little Half Breed Elf Boy/Man. He could be sent to Tevinter to go study under a Magister. For one he was a dreamer, I believe that's what he was called right? That could be pretty crucial for the coming story with Solas. Next if we actually are going to Tevinter then it would make sense to see him there. But obviously only if you sent him there. Be awesome to have a first in a real cause an effect thing for one of your companions.
 
So what do you think? Do you believe we'll see him? Do you think he could be a important person in these coming cra cra times?

Will he be selling potions in a square? I made him tranquil, too dangerous to just leave running like that.

[TraiHarder]

Will he be selling potions in a square? I made him tranquil, too dangerous to just leave running like that.

 

No he simply wont be in DA4 for you because of your choice. This is a great moment for them to show that choices can have real effects on future events.

An if you want to experience this then you just go into Keep an change it.

[Hydwn]

What? You make no sense was he murdering people before in his dreams? Noooooooo ok then .

 

Almost.  He actually uses people's dreams to make them murder others.  He turns some guardsmen in Kirkwall into killers.

 

That's if you take the sloth demon's deal, and you lure him into possession.  Most take the tranquil or Tevinter options.

[TraiHarder]

Almost.  He actually uses people's dreams to make them murder others.  He turns some guardsmen in Kirkwall into killers.

 

That's if you take the sloth demon's deal, and you lure him into possession.  Most take the tranquil or Tevinter options.

 

Lmao like I said was HE as in Feynriel murdering people.

 

NOOOOOOOO YOU SAY it was a SLOTH demon well that's whos fault? lol Not Feynriels seeing as he does see the demons for what they are. If you send him to Tevinter he get a better grasp of his powers under the teachings of a Magister.

[Hydwn]

Lmao like I said was HE as in Feynriel murdering people.

 

NOOOOOOOO YOU SAY it was a SLOTH demon well that's whos fault? lol Not Feynriels seeing as he does see the demons for what they are. If you send him to Tevinter he get a better grasp of his powers under the teachings of a Magister.

 

Everything we know about demon possession and how it works in the dragon age universe is that the victim and the demon merge, so there's no real difference between the two.  In my worst of all worlds playthough, there's no real "Feynriel" left to control the demon.  He and it are the same creature.  I doubt it would want to be controlled, or see the need to be.  

[TraiHarder]

Everything we know about demon possession and how it works in the dragon age universe is that the victim and the demon merge, so there's no real difference between the two.  In my worst of all worlds playthough, there's no real "Feynriel" left to control the demon.  He and it are the same creature.  I doubt it would want to be controlled, or see the need to be.  

 

 

For one demons use a host body to preform their own dirty dead's. They don't become one an the same person they are a person with a demon inside of them. This isn't a Justice an Anders special. A Sloth Demon IS A DEMON not a spirit.

 

If you go through the quest aiding him throughout he sees each demon for what they are a Demon an wants no part in anything they have planned. He is a timid boy that only wants to gain better control over his power so he doesn't hurt people.

Modifié par BioWareMod08, 05 octobre 2015 - 10:37 .
Inappropriate language

[Hydwn]

 

 

For one demons use a host body to preform their own dirty dead's. They don't become one an the same person they are a person with a demon inside of them. This isn't a Justice an Anders special. A Sloth Demon IS A DEMON not a spirit.

 

If you go through the quest aiding him throughout he sees each demon for what they are a Demon an wants no part in anything they have planned. He is a timid boy that only wants to gain better control over his power so he doesn't hurt people.

Actually, Anders repeatedly tells you that he can't tell where one begins and the other ends, that they're the same creature.  You hear the same thing from Uldred, and Wynne has the same thing to say about her spirit -  "I couldn't extricate it even if I wanted to."  

 

While separating a spirit from a body is sometimes possible if a party goes into the Fade, Mahariel lets us know that the possessed victim never really recovers, and other demons come to find it.  You can see this happen to a freed Connor in In Hushed Whispers.  Effectively, killing the demon is removing something that now a part of the person, cutting it away like a damaged limb.  

 

In order to get the demon to possess Feynriel, you have to weaken his confidence.  A damaged Feynriel would have no chance at survival.

[Dean_the_Young]

This is why I said a cause an effect type thing where we could really start to see our choices taking affect. If he is Tranquil then we miss a nice part of a story that could have been if hes not an all good then we get to experience the story.

 

An if you want to experience it all you have to do is go into keep.

 

With Keep it gives them to ability to do things like this because people cant get mad at the fact they weren't able to go through it because all they have to do is simply change it in keep, but will they is the question,

 

Why would any writer make a good part of the story be dependent on the survival of a minor character who could have died two games ago? Why not tell a great, entire, story using a character who won't be missing at all?

 

Having the ability to make a bad writing decision doesn't necessarily mean they should- especially since a Keep choice is locked for the entire playthrough it's used for, and so can't be changed on the fly.

[TraiHarder]

Actually, Anders repeatedly tells you that he can't tell where one begins and the other ends, that they're the same creature.  You hear the same thing from Uldred, and Wynne has the same thing to say about her spirit -  "I couldn't extricate it even if I wanted to."  

 

While separating a spirit from a body is sometimes possible if a party goes into the Fade, Mahariel lets us know that the possessed victim never really recovers, and other demons come to find it.  You can see this happen to a freed Connor in In Hushed Whispers.  Effectively, killing the demon is removing something that now a part of the person, cutting it away like a damaged limb.  

 

In order to get the demon to possess Feynriel, you have to weaken his confidence.  A damaged Feynriel would have no chance at survival.

 

Ok so you obviously don't get the difference between a DEMON and a SIPIRT. They are two different things even Solas knows this. A Demon would use a body to do Harm to others an enact its plans. While a Spirit comes to the aid of ones feeling such a Justice.

 

Do you understand how a Sloth demon is nothing like a Spirit of Justice or compassion?

 

Because this is the first step in everything that is wrong with your views.

[Former_Fiend]

Would be nice if he showed up and got a little more than Connor did. Not enough to be plot critical or anything but I could see him being the focus of a side quest or even an optional boss if he's an abomination.

[TraiHarder]

Why would any writer make a good part of the story be dependent on the survival of a minor character who could have died two games ago? Why not tell a great, entire, story using a character who won't be missing at all?

 

Having the ability to make a bad writing decision doesn't necessarily mean they should- especially since a Keep choice is locked for the entire playthrough it's used for, and so can't be changed on the fly.

 

Because this game is suppose to be about CHOICE an how those choices can affect things in the long run.

 

In no way shape or form is this bad writing because you deiced not to allow Feynriel the opportunity to go an master his power. If anything it would be a amazing part of the game an hindsight for us to look back an really think about our decisions in previous games. Its called life we cant tell how things will play out But OH LOOK if you keep him alive this is how things would play out if not then just oh well he wont be I your story an so what does it matter to you to be honest because you seem to not want him there at all? 

 

I not saying that hes gonna change the world as we know it I'm just saying that he could either be a asset in the future with his powers due to your choice to allow him to study or not simple as that.

[Dean_the_Young]

Ok so you obviously don't get the difference between a DEMON and a SIPIRT. They are two different things even Solas knows this. A Demon would use a body to do Harm to others an enact its plans. While a Spirit comes to the aid of ones feeling such a Justice.

 

Do you understand how a Sloth demon is nothing like a Spirit of Justice or compassion?

 

Because this is the first step in everything that is wrong with your views.

 

This is a retroactive classification fallacy. Saying a spirit is something that does good things, while a demon is something that does bad things, is just categorizing based on impacts, not inherent qualities. Does a demon who never have a chance to do harm count as a demon since it never hurts anyone? Does a spirit who never actually helps anyone get to claim coming to the aid of one's feelings?
 

Saying demons and spirits are fundamentally different is like saying good and bad people are fundamentally different. It's true in one sense- but they're still both groups of the same sort of people, if we construe 'sort' to not just mean 'groups I like or dislike.'

[TK514]

Why would you assume something like that? He wasn't a salve an if he was made tranquil he wasn't sent to tevinter lmao

Seems to me most of the Tranquil used for the crystal finders were part of the Mage rebellion.  If he were Tranquil, it's not a stretch to assume he was one of those abandoned by the Mages and taken by the Venatori.  Chop Chop.

[Dean_the_Young]

Because this game is suppose to be about CHOICE an how those choices can affect things in the long run.

 

Since when? Bioware has been running away from choices in their own games- let alone sequels- for as long as they've made RPGs.

 

Moreover, there are ways to show choice rather than having an important part of a story depend on a previous setup as bad as a kill/don't-kill choice.

 

 

 

In no way shape or form is this bad writing because you deiced not to allow Feynriel the opportunity to go an master his power. If anything it would be a amazing part of the game an hindsight for us to look back an really think about our decisions in previous games. Its called life we cant tell how things will play out But OH LOOK if you keep him alive this is how things would play out if not then just oh well he wont be I your story an so what does it matter to you to be honest because you seem to not want him there at all? 

 

 

If we just want to have him be a cameo, sure- that's a reflection. But why a dedicated part of the story- and why can't the story have an equivalent if his story is supposed to be important?

 

Kind of has to, really. Mordin could die in ME2- and what do you know, the genophage plotline still had to go on.

 

 

I not saying that hes gonna change the world as we know it I'm just saying that he could either be a asset in the future with his powers due to your choice to allow him to study or not simple as that.

 

 

 

So... what? Something as minor as an agent of the Inquisition? War assets?

 

Sure, I guess. I thought you were talking bigger than that.

[TraiHarder]

This is a retroactive classification fallacy. Saying a spirit is something that does good things, while a demon is something that does bad things, is just categorizing based on impacts, not inherent qualities. Does a demon who never have a chance to do harm count as a demon since it never hurts anyone? Does a spirit who never actually helps anyone get to claim coming to the aid of one's feelings?
 

Saying demons and spirits are fundamentally different is like saying good and bad people are fundamentally different. It's true in one sense- but they're still both groups of the same sort of people, if we construe 'sort' to not just mean 'groups I like or dislike.'

Lmao you obviously don't now much about how Demons an Spirits are classified no?

 

I never said a demon is a demon because it would wish to use ones body to do harm. A demon is simply a demon. If it encompassed by an draws it power from Pride, Desire, an Terror then it is simply a demon nothing more nothing less.

 

But a spirit draws its power from things such as virtue an compassion. Even the Spirit you can do a quest for in crestwood knows there is a very clear line between that which is a demon an that which is a spirit. She immediately shows disgust to the word an puts them down.  

 

But if you'd like to look at it as maybe all demons were once spirits then sure go ahead because we have been told Spirits are shaped by those around them. Just as we can see Justice being shaped by Anders just because Anders cant tell where He begins an Justice ends we an clearly see it. For its Anders rage that starts to twist an form justice into something more something different.

 

 

Do you understand now?

[TraiHarder]

Seems to me most of the Tranquil used for the crystal finders were part of the Mage rebellion.  If he were Tranquil, it's not a stretch to assume he was one of those abandoned by the Mages and taken by the Venatori.  Chop Chop.

 

I mean sure you can go an assume that but I highly doubt it. Its not as if we found tons of them. I'm pretty sure there are more Tranquil than there were Oculs

 

If anything I would be more inclined to believe he died in the Kirkwall rebellion once the Templars enacted the right.

 

Either way from your choice it would depend if he was in the next game or not this is the main point I was getting at with the cause an effect. An giving us more examples of showing our choices really mean something.

[Dean_the_Young]

Lmao you obviously don't now much about how Demons an Spirits are classified no?

 

I never said a demon is a demon because it would wish to use ones body to do harm. A demon is simply a demon. If it encompassed by an draws it power from Pride, Desire, an Terror then it is simply a demon nothing more nothing less.

 

But a spirit draws its power from things such as virtue an compassion. Even the Spirit you can do a quest for in crestwood knows there is a very clear line between that which is a demon an that which is a spirit. She immediately shows disgust to the word an puts them down.  

 

But if you'd like to look at it as maybe all demons were once spirits then sure go ahead because we have been told Spirits are shaped by those around them. Just as we can see Justice being shaped by Anders just because Anders cant tell where He begins an Justice ends we an clearly see it. For its Anders rage that starts to twist an form justice into something more something different.

 

 

Do you understand now?

 

Yeah- that you're still classifying by character, not nature. And relying on the Chantry's dogma for classification at that.

 

The elves have the better understanding of it. Spirits are spirits- and they are all dangerous, and all can be twisted by perception and other factors.

[TraiHarder]

Since when? Bioware has been running away from choices in their own games- let alone sequels- for as long as they've made RPGs.

 

Moreover, there are ways to show choice rather than having an important part of a story depend on a previous setup as bad as a kill/don't-kill choice.

 

 

 

If we just want to have him be a cameo, sure- that's a reflection. But why a dedicated part of the story- and why can't the story have an equivalent if his story is supposed to be important?

 

Kind of has to, really. Mordin could die in ME2- and what do you know, the genophage plotline still had to go on.

 

 

So... what? Something as minor as an agent of the Inquisition? War assets?

 

Sure, I guess. I thought you were talking bigger than that.

 

Lmao are you serious Bioware has said many many many times they want your choices to matter plz stop.

I never said our choices did matter. Again I said that this is a opportunity for them to show us that they do matter.

 

 

Dude would it matter if it was big or not I'm not saying make his appearance game changing but it would be cool if he could be a companion maybe or help you with fade mission an unlock a new paths for you making Fade related things for you easier.

 

At the end of the day its pretty freaking simple. IT COMES DOWN TO YOUR CHOICES HAVE CONSEQUENCES its as simple as that. Either you sent him to Tevinter or you didn't. So if you did them Good for you awesome you get a nice surprise if not then Oh well Its not gonna kill you or not allow you to finish the story you simply wont have him so you simply wont be able to go through things that were just tied to him. If you want to then experience him in your game then SIMPLY go to the keep an change his fate BOOM WOW SO HARD OMG.

[TraiHarder]

Yeah- that you're still classifying by character, not nature. And relying on the Chantry's dogma for classification at that.

 

The elves have the better understanding of it. Spirits are spirits- and they are all dangerous, and all can be twisted by perception and other factors.

An no I'm not using any chantry classification

 

DUDE THERE ARE DEMON AN THERE ARE SPIRITS

 

Spirits can be twisted into demon But there are still demons. IF IT FEEDS OFF DESIRE PRIDE ENVY SLOTH ITS A FREAKIN DEMON.

 

Even Solas knows this. Not once does he say EVERYTHING IS A SIPRITS He knows that there are Demons an there are spirits. Did you do the quest with Solas to go help his spirit friend? He even agrees she turned into a DEMON by the mages.

 

I'm not gonna argue the simple fact that there are freakin demons an spirit.

Modifié par BioWareMod08, 05 octobre 2015 - 11:17 .
Inappropriate Language

[Dean_the_Young]

Lmao are you serious Bioware has said many many many times they want your choices to matter plz stop.

I never said our choices did matter. Again I said that this is a opportunity for them to show us that they do matter.

 

Bioware says many things- but their actions speak louder.

 

Before Bioware tries to commit to exclusionary content between games, I'd rather seem them reflect choices inside the game they're already made.

 

 

 

 

Dude would it matter if it was big or not I'm not saying make his appearance game changing but it would be cool if he could be a companion maybe or help you with fade mission an unlock a new paths for you making Fade related things for you easier.

 

 

Certainly it would matter. The greater the cost of the role, the more relevant (and expensive) any necessary replacements are. In the cost of, say, a dead Mordin, the ME Devs had to create a whole new character model and hire a voice actor. Not the cheapest thing.

 

 

At the end of the day its pretty freaking simple. IT COMES DOWN TO YOUR CHOICES HAVE CONSEQUENCES its as simple as that. Either you sent him to Tevinter or you didn't. So if you did them Good for you awesome you get a nice surprise if not then Oh well Its not gonna kill you or not allow you to finish the story you simply wont have him so you simply wont be able to go through things that were just tied to him. If you want to then experience him in your game then SIMPLY go to the keep an change his fate BOOM WOW SO HARD OMG.

 

 

I'll pick for better consequences than all-or-nothing conceits based on arbitrary and minor characters. Bioware needs to work on its choice structure in the first place-character death choices are really weak, since they render any surviving character narratively equivalent to their death state. I didn't like ME2's carry-over content from ME1 choices, and I still don't think it was well-advised to simply avoid equivalent content.

 

If the Keep changed world-states in-game, changing keeps might be a relevant answer- but as I rule I disapprove of solutions that require 5/15/45 hours of replay to spot the difference.

[Dean_the_Young]

 An no I'm not using any chantry classification

 

DUDE THERE ARE DEMON AN THERE ARE SPIRITS

 

Spirits can be twisted into demon But there are still demons. IF IT FEEDS OFF DESIRE PRIDE ENVY SLOTH ITS A FREAKIN DEMON.

 

Even Solas knows this. Not once does he say EVERYTHING IS A SIPRITS He knows that there are Demons an there are spirits. Did you do the quest with Solas to go help his spirit friend? He even agrees she turned into a DEMON by the mages.

 

Demons are what people call bad spirits on the basis of, well, them being bad. It's an Andrastian prism of reference- one that Solas uses, but doesn't limit himself to. Remember- Solas humanizes spirits past what the categorical approach does. Solas saying the spirit is turned into a demon is saying the demon is a distorition- a corruption- of his friend: not that his friend changed species. It's a difference of character, not composition.

 

 

The Chantry's dogma is a useful but ultimately arbitrary attempt at categorizing, still on the basis of 'good' and 'bad' impacts. Not only does it break down when the categories are confused- the Choice Spirit is an example- but so is it when the spirit itself is confused. Cole the Killer Spirit is called a spirit, and a demon.

 

Spirits, good and bad, try to fulfill their nature. And even the 'good' spirits- the one the Chantry calls spirits- will try to do so through the living: Wynn's spirit of faith, Anders and Justice. 'Demons' are what Thedasians call the spirits whose natures they don't like- with the demonic categories being the Chantry's efforts to broadly group the most obvious.

 

 

 

 

I'm not gonna argue the simple fact that there are freakin demons an spirit like 

 

 

And yet, here you are...

 

I'd claim irony, but this doesn't qualify.

[TraiHarder]

Bioware says many things- but their actions speak louder.

 

Before Bioware tries to commit to exclusionary content between games, I'd rather seem them reflect choices inside the game they're already made.

 

 

 

Certainly it would matter. The greater the cost of the role, the more relevant (and expensive) any necessary replacements are. In the cost of, say, a dead Mordin, the ME Devs had to create a whole new character model and hire a voice actor. Not the cheapest thing.

 

 

I'll pick for better consequences than all-or-nothing conceits based on arbitrary and minor characters. Bioware needs to work on its choice structure in the first place-character death choices are really weak, since they render any surviving character narratively equivalent to their death state. I didn't like ME2's carry-over content from ME1 choices, and I still don't think it was well-advised to simply avoid equivalent content.

 

If the Keep changed world-states in-game, changing keeps might be a relevant answer- but as I rule I disapprove of solutions that require 5/15/45 hours of replay to spot the difference.

 

Its simple if you didn't send him to Tevinter then you don't get his story line its pretty darn simple. Because I just cant with you anymore your not even reading what your posting. Your agreeing with me on post but yet in your mind disagree with me for no reason. Your fingers an subconscious are smart peeps you as a whole not so much.

 

An what why would the keep need to change the world state in game that's just dumb. Your just one of those people that get mad because they made a choice they didn't like so you don't want to replay the game to see the other path u wanted you want it right then an there. Sorry that's not how the world works buddy get over it wow you made a choice an now you're seeing how the choice is playing out. Wow I now have to go play the game again to go down another path.

 

Its call cause an effect every choice has a consequence an sadly that would be the one for you get over it

Modifié par BioWareMod08, 05 octobre 2015 - 11:20 .
Inappropriate Language

[AresKeith]

Would be nice if he showed up and got a little more than Connor did. Not enough to be plot critical or anything but I could see him being the focus of a side quest or even an optional boss if he's an abomination.

 

It would be nice to see a cameo get a sizeable side mission without making an impact on the main story

[TraiHarder]

Demons are what people call bad spirits on the basis of, well, them being bad. It's an Andrastian prism of reference- one that Solas uses, but doesn't limit himself to. Remember- Solas humanizes spirits past what the categorical approach does. Solas saying the spirit is turned into a demon is saying the demon is a distorition- a corruption- of his friend: not that his friend changed species. It's a difference of character, not composition.

 

 

The Chantry's dogma is a useful but ultimately arbitrary attempt at categorizing, still on the basis of 'good' and 'bad' impacts. Not only does it break down when the categories are confused- the Choice Spirit is an example- but so is it when the spirit itself is confused. Cole the Killer Spirit is called a spirit, and a demon.

 

Spirits, good and bad, try to fulfill their nature. And even the 'good' spirits- the one the Chantry calls spirits- will try to do so through the living: Wynn's spirit of faith, Anders and Justice. 'Demons' are what Thedasians call the spirits whose natures they don't like- with the demonic categories being the Chantry's efforts to broadly group the most obvious.

 

 

 

 

And yet, here you are...

 

I'd claim irony, but this doesn't qualify.

 

 

Your gonna tell me that a Ancient elf god doesn't know the difference between a spirit an a demon. 

 

They call them Pride, Envy, Terror, an Desire demons for a reason BECAUSE THEY ARE DEMONS. Demons want to do harm an are twisted an corrupted Spirits are pure for the most part as long as those that surround them are pure an have the same intentions as they do.

 

They don't call them demons because they don't like them they call them demons because that is what they are. They are no longer spirits.

 

We can be friends I'm sure you have great theory an would love someone to talk to DA about so ill send a message of good faith an send u a friend request ok bud.

Modifié par BioWareMod08, 05 octobre 2015 - 11:39 .
Inappropriate language