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"What you flail at rifts, I crafted to assault the very heavens..."


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#26
Rekkampum

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Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

EDIT: In the spoiler section.


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#27
DeLaatsteGeitenneuker

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Spoiler

 

EDIT: In the spoiler section.

Meaning now Solas possesses the Anchor?



#28
Captmorgan72

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Makes you wonder why Solas didn't look for Flemeth in the very beginning to gain the power to remove the anchor from the Inquisitor.

 

Edit: Nevermind. I forgot that he didn't even know she was alive until What Pride had Wrought.



#29
Heimdall

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Makes you wonder why Solas didn't look for Flemeth in the very beginning to gain the power to remove the anchor from the Inquisitor.

Mythal was his dear friend, he didn't want to drain her as his first option.  He would have had all the power he needed if he'd gotten his orb back.


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#30
QueenCrow

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Mythal was his dear friend, he didn't want to drain her as his first option.  He would have had all the power he needed if he'd gotten his orb back.

 

Add to that - if you take Solas to the Temple of Mythal, he'll say something like "So some part of Mythal still exists", which suggests he didn't know she was still around until that point.



#31
DeLaatsteGeitenneuker

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Add to that - if you take Solas to the Temple of Mythal, he'll say something like "So some part of Mythal still exists", which suggests he didn't know she was still around until that point.

The only question remaining is if Solas actually salvaged the Anchor or not for himself.


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#32
KumoriYami

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I think he salvaged some of its power, but at this point in time, he can't use it for its original purpose since it's changed due to the Inquisitor and the fluctuations with it.



#33
DeLaatsteGeitenneuker

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I think he salvaged some of its power, but at this point in time, he can't use it for its original purpose since it's changed due to the Inquisitor and the fluctuations with it.

The think is, he might not be a god but he is pretty close. How on earth could anyone in the Dragon Age oppose who is likely the most powerful mage of the age? He can turn people to stone at a thought, sever the Anchor from the Inquisitor. I don't think, at least in terms of pure power, anything could stop him.



#34
KumoriYami

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The think is, he might not be a god but he is pretty close. How on earth could anyone in the Dragon Age oppose who is likely the most powerful mage of the age? He can turn people to stone at a thought, sever the Anchor from the Inquisitor. I don't think, at least in terms of pure power, anything could stop him.

....there's also the matter of the Inquisitor who drank from the Well of Sorrows given what happens to the epilogue to consider. if he has Flemeytal's power, they won't be able to do anything either.



#35
DeLaatsteGeitenneuker

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....there's also the matter of the Inquisitor who drank from the Well of Sorrows given what happens to the epilogue to consider. if he has Flemeytal's power, they won't be able to do anything either.

That is the other thing OR Morrigan serves Solas. I fear they might end up pulling a Deus Ex...I fear this greatly. Still, he is not omniscient. Maybe there are some long lost secrets he does not know about. That and I think superficially DA4 will be about a war between Tevinter and the Qunari.



#36
Madmoe77

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this is not dishonesty


neither is this

and, y'know, there are other characters that associate with the Inquisitor that don't lie, like Cassandra, who hasn't got a dishonest bone in her body

Corypheus' honesty or dishonesty is impossible for the PC to falsify because he's the only person with autopsy of much of what he discusses, like the invasion of the Fade. He might be telling the truth; he might be telling the truth but as an unreliable narrator (so what he believes to be the truth, while sincerely believed, may be incorrect); he may be lying. It is impossible to know.

 

That's cherry picking! How can Corypheus be the only unreliable narrator? It's villain bias. 

 

Sera may not directly lie but all of her omissions are lies of conscience. She lies as much as Bull about her 'friends' and will not reveal them. A lie of omission is still a lie. Cassandra does lie about the efforts of the Seekers. She admits they were doing things that directly lent to the mages rebellion by seeking out specifics instead of acting when they knew they should have. At first she madly blames Varric for lying about the whereabouts of Hawke, suggesting that was a catalyst to the conclave exploding and the Divine not having a protector or as a direct result of the happenings in Kirkwall. None of that is true. The mages rebelled from systemic abuse in the circles. Kirkwall may have been a fuse but the powers that be like the Seekers did not act. Cass regrets this. She lied to herself about the responsibility she held as the Divines acting right hand. 

 

We are told not to like Cory and disregard his memory of the Black City because it is heresy and we are the Herald of Andraste. But all through the game, event after event makes the player come to terms that all of the foundations for many of their belief systems, humans and elves alike, (dwarves too in the Descent) may be false or skewed. This is because of the things in Cory's tale are true! Many confirmed throughout the game. Like his lineage through the Wartable ages ago. Or that his accounts were also supported by chants in the World of Thedas volume 2. (According to the boards here.)

 

What does it mean when something is impossible to falsify when evidence supports it?  



#37
TraiHarder

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....there's also the matter of the Inquisitor who drank from the Well of Sorrows given what happens to the epilogue to consider. if he has Flemeytal's power, they won't be able to do anything either.

 

 

Add to that - if you take Solas to the Temple of Mythal, he'll say something like "So some part of Mythal still exists", which suggests he didn't know she was still around until that point.

 

 

Mythal was his dear friend, he didn't want to drain her as his first option.  He would have had all the power he needed if he'd gotten his orb back.

 

 

I cant believe you people believe that Solas actually took Flemeths power. I for one believe that she only gave him knowledge or maybe some amount of power through her own will not taken by force. I highly doubt someone like Flemeth who has been sticking her hand in everything from day 1 would allow herself to be killed now.

 

An def not after taking the archdemon soul.


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#38
Rekkampum

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That is the other thing OR Morrigan serves Solas. I fear they might end up pulling a Deus Ex...I fear this greatly. Still, he is not omniscient. Maybe there are some long lost secrets he does not know about. That and I think superficially DA4 will be about a war between Tevinter and the Qunari.

 

That's what I'm thinking. I think we'll see references to Solas, etc., but that the real trouble won't appear until either late in the game, DLC, or another game- since it seems what Solas is planning will take a while and the next game will definitely be focusing on the Tevinter Imperium's war with the Qun. It's one of the reasons I imagine the Inquisitor only having more of a peripheral role in DA4 - gathering the necessary forces and intel to face Solas, etc. - and perhaps coming back into prominence later.



#39
LinksOcarina

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At Haven Corypheus is pretty clear that, at the very least, he crafted the Anchor. Yet, Solas claims, had Corypheus died he would have used the mark the Inquisitor bears to tear down the Veil. Who is telling the truth. I know the orb belongs to Fen'harel but the Anchor? Was it not crafted by Corypheus using the orb? or was he simply lying?

 

Solas also says in the same breath that Corypheus found the orb due to his meddling in the shadows, so it is likely Corypheus unlocked its secrets and claimed it for himself.

 

In that way, both are telling the truth from their perspective. 



#40
Rekkampum

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I cant believe you people believe that Solas actually took Flemeths power. I for one believe that she only gave him knowledge or maybe some amount of power through her own will not taken by force. I highly doubt someone like Flemeth who has been sticking her hand in everything from day 1 would allow herself to be killed now.

 

An def not after taking the archdemon soul.

 

That's kinda what the dev notes say happened.



#41
Ashaantha

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That's kinda what the dev notes say happened.

 

Yup. But dev notes lost in the game files used to help animators etc along with possibilities, which they can change their mind about at any time because it isn't canon when in that source.


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#42
QueenCrow

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I cant believe you people believe that Solas actually took Flemeths power. I for one believe that she only gave him knowledge or maybe some amount of power through her own will not taken by force. I highly doubt someone like Flemeth who has been sticking her hand in everything from day 1 would allow herself to be killed now.

 

An def not after taking the archdemon soul.

 

Saying Solas took Mythal's power doesn't negate the idea that she let him take it, gave it to him for the taking, or even baited him into taking it because that's what she wanted for untold reasons.


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#43
TraiHarder

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Saying Solas took Mythal's power doesn't negate the idea that she let him take it, gave it to him for the taking, or even baited him into taking it because that's what she wanted for untold reasons.

I never said that it did. I said like I said before I don't believe she would give up her power with all that she has been doing throughout the ages. She has her own plans that I don't believe link up with Solas an his plans



#44
Aimi

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That's cherry picking! How can Corypheus be the only unreliable narrator? It's villain bias.


That's a failure of reading comprehension! I didn't say that Corypheus was the only unreliable source. Get over yourself.
 

Sera may not directly lie but all of her omissions are lies of conscience. She lies as much as Bull about her 'friends' and will not reveal them. A lie of omission is still a lie. Cassandra does lie about the efforts of the Seekers. She admits they were doing things that directly lent to the mages rebellion by seeking out specifics instead of acting when they knew they should have. At first she madly blames Varric for lying about the whereabouts of Hawke, suggesting that was a catalyst to the conclave exploding and the Divine not having a protector or as a direct result of the happenings in Kirkwall. None of that is true. The mages rebelled from systemic abuse in the circles. Kirkwall may have been a fuse but the powers that be like the Seekers did not act. Cass regrets this. She lied to herself about the responsibility she held as the Divines acting right hand.


Again, I don't think you understand what lying actually is. If you believe that it is "failure to fully disclose every possible fact at one's disposal and be a metaphorical open book to other people in relatively casual conversation", then you have a different understanding of lying than pretty much everybody who speaks or reads the English language. Similarly, emotional overreaction to trauma and an inability to be completely logical about serious events isn't automatically a lie either.
 

We are told not to like Cory and disregard his memory of the Black City because it is heresy and we are the Herald of Andraste. But all through the game, event after event makes the player come to terms that all of the foundations for many of their belief systems, humans and elves alike, (dwarves too in the Descent) may be false or skewed. This is because of the things in Cory's tale are true! Many confirmed throughout the game. Like his lineage through the Wartable ages ago. Or that his accounts were also supported by chants in the World of Thedas volume 2. (According to the boards here.)
 
What does it mean when something is impossible to falsify when evidence supports it?


Aspects of Corypheus' story are indeed possible to corroborate, after a fashion. There's a reasonable consensus that Corypheus was a tainted being that was once a Tevinter magister; there is a probable identification of him as Sethius, of House Amladris. Both of these things have appeared in Inquisition and WoT 2, loosely classified as likely but not certain. The fact that Corypheus was tainted but not exactly the same as other darkspawn emissaries, combined with his extensive knowledge of ancient Tevinter, makes it likely that he participated in the attempt to reach the Golden/Black City. But, assuming that that happened, there is not a single shred of positive proof, aside from Corypheus' own claims, that he ever actually got there. Nor is there proof corroborating his claim that the city was empty (or that there was a throne in the city and it was empty, depending on how you read that particular line of his).

It is impossible to falsify Corypheus' claims because there is no possible way to come up with any evidence to refute it. Similarly, there is no possible way to come up with any evidence to positively corroborate it.

This is simply the nature of the problem: no one else was there. I don't have any particular bias against Corypheus, nor do I have any particular leaning toward Andrastianism or any other Thedosian religious tradition you care to name, but you have to understand what you don't understand. We can't take Corypheus at face value about the orb or the Fade any more than we could take the Guardian of the Temple of Sacred Ashes at face value about Andraste.

In fact, the game itself drives home the problem of autopsy to the player by using the Inquisitor's own experience. Did the player encounter Andraste in the Fade, or not? What exactly was that spirit-Justinia anyway? Was it Justinia herself or the spirit who helped the player escape the first time? What about the second time? None of this is made particularly clear. Whatever the player decides is the correct answer, and how passionately the character believes in it, is up to the player. The game certainly doesn't provide a clear answer.

#45
TraiHarder

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That's a failure of reading comprehension! I didn't say that Corypheus was the only unreliable source. Get over yourself.
 

Again, I don't think you understand what lying actually is. If you believe that it is "failure to fully disclose every possible fact at one's disposal and be a metaphorical open book to other people in relatively casual conversation", then you have a different understanding of lying than pretty much everybody who speaks or reads the English language. Similarly, emotional overreaction to trauma and an inability to be completely logical about serious events isn't automatically a lie either.
 

Aspects of Corypheus' story are indeed possible to corroborate, after a fashion. There's a reasonable consensus that Corypheus was a tainted being that was once a Tevinter magister; there is a probable identification of him as Sethius, of House Amladris. Both of these things have appeared in Inquisition and WoT 2, loosely classified as likely but not certain. The fact that Corypheus was tainted but not exactly the same as other darkspawn emissaries, combined with his extensive knowledge of ancient Tevinter, makes it likely that he participated in the attempt to reach the Golden/Black City. But, assuming that that happened, there is not a single shred of positive proof, aside from Corypheus' own claims, that he ever actually got there. Nor is there proof corroborating his claim that the city was empty (or that there was a throne in the city and it was empty, depending on how you read that particular line of his).

It is impossible to falsify Corypheus' claims because there is no possible way to come up with any evidence to refute it. Similarly, there is no possible way to come up with any evidence to positively corroborate it.

This is simply the nature of the problem: no one else was there. I don't have any particular bias against Corypheus, nor do I have any particular leaning toward Andrastianism or any other Thedosian religious tradition you care to name, but you have to understand what you don't understand. We can't take Corypheus at face value about the orb or the Fade any more than we could take the Guardian of the Temple of Sacred Ashes at face value about Andraste.

In fact, the game itself drives home the problem of autopsy to the player by using the Inquisitor's own experience. Did the player encounter Andraste in the Fade, or not? What exactly was that spirit-Justinia anyway? Was it Justinia herself or the spirit who helped the player escape the first time? What about the second time? None of this is made particularly clear. Whatever the player decides is the correct answer, and how passionately the character believes in it, is up to the player. The game certainly doesn't provide a clear answer.

What do yo mean tainted but not like the others? They were all able to still think freely without a clouded mind. An still retain their memories an intelligence so I don't see how they all aren't tainted the same.

 

 

As for everything else. Cory isn't the type to lie or beat around the bush as we have seen. What possible reason would he have for immediately awaking an lie about claiming that the seat of the Maker was empty? He is one that gets straight to the point when he talks.

 

How can you not take the word of someone whos been there first hand? Who sees everyone else around him as far lower than even dirt an has the power to back it up. He has not one reason to lie about anything.


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#46
Aimi

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What do yo mean tainted but not like the others? They were all able to still think freely without a clouded mind. An still retain their memories an intelligence so I don't see how they all aren't tainted the same.
 
 
As for everything else. Cory isn't the type to lie or beat around the bush as we have seen. What possible reason would he have for immediately awaking an lie about claiming that the seat of the Maker was empty? He is one that gets straight to the point when he talks.
 
How can you not take the word of someone whos been there first hand? Who sees everyone else around him as far lower than even dirt an has the power to back it up. He has not one reason to lie about anything.


"The others" means "your average ghoul". It does not mean "the other magisters who assaulted the Fade, assuming they existed, and assuming that beings like the Architect and the mysterious 'two darkspawn kings' are them". And Corypheus is not like the average ghoul.

Your personal value judgment about Corypheus is completely meaningless to anybody else, and your questions about "what [...] reason would he have..." indicate that you either didn't read or didn't comprehend either one of my previous posts.

You know how I can "not take the word of someone whos [sic] been there first hand"? I'm a historian. Uncritically accepting personal autopsy is not what we do. Try some Quellenkritik on for size.

#47
TraiHarder

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"The others" means "your average ghoul". It does not mean "the other magisters who assaulted the Fade, assuming they existed, and assuming that beings like the Architect and the mysterious 'two darkspawn kings' are them". And Corypheus is not like the average ghoul.

Your personal value judgment about Corypheus is completely meaningless to anybody else, and your questions about "what [...] reason would he have..." indicate that you either didn't read or didn't comprehend either one of my previous posts.

You know how I can "not take the word of someone whos [sic] been there first hand"? I'm a historian. Uncritically accepting personal autopsy is not what we do. Try some Quellenkritik on for size.

 

Well first of all we know the other Magisters existed that's a fact there was one for each Old God. Its been confirmed that the Architect was one of them. So I don't see where your getting any of that form, for a "historian" your not very knowledgeable. An there were 3 Magisters the dwarf say not 2 remember your history mister "I'm a Historian"

 

Your personal opinions don't matter either. It is your opinion not to believe Cory when a lot of others do. Not to mention your horrible memory of things which is making you even less credible ya know. I read your last point in its entirety. An I wrote what I did because if you were a Historian you should be able to compare those of power through out history an those with power have shown to not beat around the bush other than if it meant like the falling of their kingdom or they didn't have absolute power as Cory did at the time, or at least in his mind he did. So that's is why I said he would have no reason to lie because what could anyone do?Nothing in his mind. Just as he tells of that the Qunari blood is not there own an they are nothing. He has no reason to lie because he was there he is not afraid of anyone or anything.

 

An no I'm good thank you though  actually I lied maybe ill look it over tonight but only if its actually interesting.



#48
Arisugawa

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Spoiler

 

EDIT: In the spoiler section.

 

 

Hmmm...interesting that Solas could remove the Anchor without the Orb and Corypheus could not do it with the Orb.

 

By the manner of his speech and the deliberate nature of his actions in In Your Heart Shall Burn, it's clear Corypheus thought he could remove it. I'm curious why he could not, as Solas apparently just did it without having his Foci to assist.

 

I mean, it's always possible that what Corypheus meant was transferring the Anchor and not merely removing it and that he was unable to accomplish that: the dialogue of characters is always suspect as infallible truth, but it does seem awfully convenient the Anchor could not be removed when the plot demanded the Inquisitor keep it and was very easily removed when the plot demanded the Inquisitor lose it.



#49
In Exile

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Hmmm...interesting that Solas could remove the Anchor without the Orb and Corypheus could not do it with the Orb.

 

By the manner of his speech and the deliberate nature of his actions in In Your Heart Shall Burn, it's clear Corypheus thought he could remove it. I'm curious why he could not, as Solas apparently just did it without having his Foci to assist.

 

I mean, it's always possible that what Corypheus meant was transferring the Anchor and not merely removing it and that he was unable to accomplish that: the dialogue of characters is always suspect as infallible truth, but it does seem awfully convenient the Anchor could not be removed when the plot demanded the Inquisitor keep it and was very easily removed when the plot demanded the Inquisitor lose it.

 

Solas, if he didn't create the Anchor outright, used it (in some very important way) to create the Veil. His mastery of the Anchor is on another level from Corypheus, who quite ironically wanted to flay it at rifts while Solas used it to create the heavens. 

 

The simple truth is Corypheus was wrong, much in the same way he was wrong about so much else (e.g. the Well of Sorrows). 



#50
Arisugawa

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Solas, if he didn't create the Anchor outright, used it (in some very important way) to create the Veil. His mastery of the Anchor is on another level from Corypheus, who quite ironically wanted to flay it at rifts while Solas used it to create the heavens. 

 

The simple truth is Corypheus was wrong, much in the same way he was wrong about so much else (e.g. the Well of Sorrows). 

 

Isn't that assumption at this point ? We don't know how Solas create the Veil. The creation of the Veil might have had nothing to do with the Anchor.

 

And I know Corypheus was wrong. In Your Heart Shall Burn would have played out very differently if he was. I'm merely saying I found it convenient.