Aller au contenu

Photo

A Third Alternative


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
77 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Iakus

Iakus
  • Members
  • 30 288 messages

Warning:  long.  Lots of speculation for everybody   <_<

 

Okay, I think I've made it pretty clear that I'm not exactly a fan of moving to Andromeda.  Mainly because I cannot find a lore-friendly way to accomplish it.  But I have said several times that if a way could be managed, I'd be all for it.  So in that spirit, I have tried to think of one.

 

The two main theories that get tossed around are

 

1) Finding a way around the discharge limitation for ships (typically through reverse-engineering reaper technology) and putting a crew in stasis.  THe problems here are questions of how long it would take the galaxy to make such leaps in technology, even with pieces of it to examine, and the question of, if the Reapers already have this level of tech, why haven't they used it themselves?

 

2)  Wormhole Theory.  Sending people through a stable (or not so stable) wormhole leading to another galaxy.  This has the advantage of circumventing the tech problem as well as being something that cannot be easily replicated, making back and forth travel difficult if not impossible, and answers the question of why the Reapers can't simply fly to Andromeda themselves.  The problem here comes from one of contrivance.  THere just "happens" to be a wormhole leading to a place the Reapers can't access.  It was, imo, a better option that 1.  But still not great.

 

But then I realized there is a third option.  The option is the same method used to travel across the galaxy itself:  a mass relay.  A unique one, not part of the network.  Like the Conduit.

 

This of course has problems of its own.  THe top one being a relay requires a pair.  That means someone has to get to Andromeda without a relay in order to build it.  We're right back to the problems of option #1.

 

But...the problems with discharging cores and such are a problem with mass effect technology.  If there were other methods of ftl travel, those limits could be circumvented.

 

Problem:  All races for the last billion years or so have used mass effect technology.  They are hugely dependent on it.  The Reapers have made sure of that.  Technology seems to stagnate shortly after the discovery of the CItadel.  Who knows how long it would take a post-Reaper civilization to make any inroads into new branches of technology?

 

Solution?:  Don't look to the future, look to the past.  There is a race that predates the Reapers.  Likely by a good long time:  The Leviathans.  An apex race that subjugates other organics demands tribute like they are god-kings.  

 

What's more, they are the only race that has successfully managed to avoid extermination by the Reapers.  Their race persists into the current cycle, albiet in a highly diminished state.

 

So imagine, more than a billion years ago, Leviathans (or a slave race) travels to Andromeda.  They establish a primary mass relay to the Milky Way with the intention of making their empire intergalactic.  But the Catalyst turns on the Leviathans before they could.  A few Leviathans manage to use the relay to escape.  Not in enough numbers to establish a new empire.  But enough to see the continuance of the race.  This would explain their escape and how they can continue to keep tabs on the galaxy without the Reapers being able to stamp them out completely.

 

Now, why can't the Reapers use this relay as well?  Thy may not know it exists.   They missed the Conduit after all, and that was on the Presidium of the Citadel.  Space is BIG.  The Mu relay stayed lost for thousands of years after it got knocked off course by a supernova.  The Crucible was built in space between the stars.  Plenty of room out there to get lost.

 

Alternatively, The Catalyst might know of the relay's existence but thinks it was destroyed.  Like it assumed all copies of the Crucible plans were lost.

 

Perhaps this lost relay is finally uncovered and used to colonize Andromeda.  Either during or after the war.  Of course, this may lead to the problem of making it too easy to get back to the Milky Way.  So perhaps it is damaged.  Or low on power (it does have a range longer than any known relay after all)  Perhaps it has to be destroyed to keep it out of the hands of the Reapers, who finally track it down.

 

The Reapers.  Ah yes  :P .  How come they can't make that original journey just like the Leviathans of old?  Well, the Reapers are still based on mass effect technology, even if it is far more advanced than anything this cycle has.  It may well be that, powerful though they are, the gulf of dark space is still too much for them.  It may also be that, due to the "preservation" techniques used on them, other forms of technology may be denied them.  Their software simply isn't compatible.  This may not preclude the possibility of Von Neumann probes or something showing up with Reaper programming.  But that would be something different from actual Reapers.

 

There are still problems to iron out of course.  What have the Leviathans been doing in Andromeda for the last billion years?  Are there other apex races that have risen up without a Reaper cycle of destruction to cut them down periodically?  Have synthetics managed to wipe out organics as the Catalyst believes? Do organics wage a constant war with Reaper probes?   

 

Anyway, here's my attempt to be "positive" about the new setting.


  • Twilight_Princess, Il Divo, jstme et 5 autres aiment ceci

#2
Il Divo

Il Divo
  • Members
  • 9 753 messages

Don't have a lot of time on me at the moment, but in short: I like it. Provided we can circumvent the "get back to Milky Way" issue, this could work.



#3
Fredward

Fredward
  • Members
  • 4 994 messages

Would the reapers even care about other galaxies? Do we know if their settings are on 'galaxy' or 'universal?' I wouldn't mind seeing the leviathans again tho.



#4
Iakus

Iakus
  • Members
  • 30 288 messages

Would the reapers even care about other galaxies? Do we know if their settings are on 'galaxy' or 'universal?' I wouldn't mind seeing the leviathans again tho.

Based on conversations with the Catalyst ad the Leviathan, their mandate is "preserve all life" at any cost. No restrictions, so it appear to be universal.


  • Shermos, Drone223, Fredward et 1 autre aiment ceci

#5
Il Divo

Il Divo
  • Members
  • 9 753 messages

^Especially too, given the potential existence of a relay to Andromeda, one issue would be organics traveling to the other side then bringing their synthetics back with them. The Reapers aren't concerned with organic extinction on a system by system basis. Anywhere that allows instant access to the Milky Way would be a potential source of Organic Extinction via Synthetics.



#6
Cheviot

Cheviot
  • Members
  • 1 484 messages

I thought this was a good idea back when I came up with it.  Circumvents all of the arguments about Arks. 

 

Anyway, it doesn't have to be a Milky Way race that creates it, so that solves the problem of the Reapers knowledge of it.



#7
Ahriman

Ahriman
  • Members
  • 2 015 messages

If they introduce something like this which is uknown to Reapers, then it's basically a techno-wormhole. So what's the big difference?



#8
AlanC9

AlanC9
  • Members
  • 35 627 messages
What if it was built by an Andromeda race?

#9
KaiserShep

KaiserShep
  • Members
  • 23 806 messages

Regarding the reapers in other galaxies, what if the Catalyst's plan was to go forth and spread the Truth of its paradise once it figured out how to fix the Milky Way? Just spreading the reapers thin across multiple galaxies seems like a waste of time when they could be focusing their energies on the one galaxy still plagued by the challenge to their mandate. 



#10
Malanek

Malanek
  • Members
  • 7 838 messages

 

2)  Wormhole Theory.  Sending people through a stable (or not so stable) wormhole leading to another galaxy.  This has the advantage of circumventing the tech problem as well as being something that cannot be easily replicated, making back and forth travel difficult if not impossible, and answers the question of why the Reapers can't simply fly to Andromeda themselves.  The problem here comes from one of contrivance.  THere just "happens" to be a wormhole leading to a place the Reapers can't access.  It was, imo, a better option that 1.  But still not great.

 

I don't believe a wormhole would be a contrivance at all if done right. Wormholes are theoretically possible but require massive amounts of energy. It just so happens that at the end of the reaper war we have

 

a ) A one time device that we don't really understand but produces massive amounts of energy is used

b ) A bunch of ships populated by various species in proximity to that device

 

Once the crucible is operated, the writers could easily say it created a massive amount of energy, tore a wormhole open in the Sol system for a fraction of a second, it pulled in a bunch of ships, collapsed, and left them stranded in Andromeda. In the final cinematic, it even looked like Joker was trying to out run a tear in space.


  • SlottsMachine, Ajensis, Eryri et 2 autres aiment ceci

#11
iM3GTR

iM3GTR
  • Members
  • 1 171 messages

I might just pretend that this is some sort of spin off, and not think of it as part of the canon. Obviously this isn't the case but I'll just not think about it too much.



#12
ArabianIGoggles

ArabianIGoggles
  • Members
  • 478 messages

I'd like to see the Leviathans included in future games.  A hidden relay doesn't seem too far fetched.


  • Lumix19 aime ceci

#13
Iakus

Iakus
  • Members
  • 30 288 messages

If they introduce something like this which is uknown to Reapers, then it's basically a techno-wormhole. So what's the big difference?

The thing is, they've already done that a couple of times.  But it being a relay that gets us to Andromeda would continue the whle "Mass Effect" aspect of the setting.  Relays have been an iconic image of the series.  

 

What if it was built by an Andromeda race?

That is certainly a possibility.  But then, that brings up the question of where are they now?  Or what happened to them if they are all dead?  Adding a new race to the equation complicates things, adds another loose end.  The Leviathans are already part of the story.  They are an elder race both arrogant and highly advanced.  Perfect for the role.  


  • Drone223 et Moghedia aiment ceci

#14
sH0tgUn jUliA

sH0tgUn jUliA
  • Members
  • 16 812 messages

Regarding the reapers in other galaxies, what if the Catalyst's plan was to go forth and spread the Truth of its paradise once it figured out how to fix the Milky Way? Just spreading the reapers thin across multiple galaxies seems like a waste of time when they could be focusing their energies on the one galaxy still plagued by the challenge to their mandate. 

 

They never did fix the Milky Way. They tried but failed. The Catalyst admitted it. The solution is not something that can be forced. Every 50,000 years organics kept arriving on the verge of building synthetics that could kill them; so the Catalyst had to send in its synthetics to kill the organics before the organics created synthetics that would kill them.

 

However, if The Shepard chooses Synthesis, the Milky Way is then fixed.

 

Sovereign was The Mad Reaper. Harbinger was the Kai Leng of the reapers.

 

************************************************************************************************

 

Leviathan tech wouldn't be quite the same as reaper tech, and thus wouldn't be affected by the beam. However, the problem still exists - what the f*** do we do with the ending? Or WTFDWDWTE?


  • Moghedia aime ceci

#15
Iakus

Iakus
  • Members
  • 30 288 messages

 

 

************************************************************************************************

 

Leviathan tech wouldn't be quite the same as reaper tech, and thus wouldn't be affected by the beam. However, the problem still exists - what the f*** do we do with the ending? Or WTFDWDWTE?

I think...

 

;)


  • Moghedia aime ceci

#16
Mdizzletr0n

Mdizzletr0n
  • Members
  • 630 messages
Lore. Yea, like they haven't done any handwaving throughout the trilogy.

Just let it go. It's happening.

Personally, I look forward to the new galaxy. But I feel like BW will just make it MW 2.0. I'd love to be wrong though.

#17
AlanC9

AlanC9
  • Members
  • 35 627 messages

That is certainly a possibility. But then, that brings up the question of where are they now? Or what happened to them if they are all dead? Adding a new race to the equation complicates things, adds another loose end. The Leviathans are already part of the story. They are an elder race both arrogant and highly advanced. Perfect for the role.

True, but OTOH we already know that Andromeda comes equipped with at least one vanished highly-advanced race, if the leak's to be believed.

#18
Iakus

Iakus
  • Members
  • 30 288 messages

True, but OTOH we already know that Andromeda comes equipped with at least one vanished highly-advanced race, if the leak's to be believed.

Wouldn't it be amusing if it turned it to be the Leviathans?   ;)



#19
Puddi III

Puddi III
  • Members
  • 561 messages
Not really a bad idea, but if that means the 'remnant' are more space squids...

XqmBai1.gif
  • SlottsMachine aime ceci

#20
SlottsMachine

SlottsMachine
  • Members
  • 5 529 messages

I don't believe a wormhole would be a contrivance at all if done right. Wormholes are theoretically possible but require massive amounts of energy. It just so happens that at the end of the reaper war we have

 

a ) A one time device that we don't really understand but produces massive amounts of energy is used

b ) A bunch of ships populated by various species in proximity to that device

 

Once the crucible is operated, the writers could easily say it created a massive amount of energy, tore a wormhole open in the Sol system for a fraction of a second, it pulled in a bunch of ships, collapsed, and left them stranded in Andromeda. In the final cinematic, it even looked like Joker was trying to out run a tear in space.

 

This. This, I like. 



#21
Belial

Belial
  • Members
  • 151 messages
Yeah but how did the Leviathans go to Andromeda in the first place?

#22
Nayawk

Nayawk
  • Members
  • 236 messages

I don't believe a wormhole would be a contrivance at all if done right. Wormholes are theoretically possible but require massive amounts of energy. It just so happens that at the end of the reaper war we have

 

a ) A one time device that we don't really understand but produces massive amounts of energy is used

b ) A bunch of ships populated by various species in proximity to that device

 

Once the crucible is operated, the writers could easily say it created a massive amount of energy, tore a wormhole open in the Sol system for a fraction of a second, it pulled in a bunch of ships, collapsed, and left them stranded in Andromeda. In the final cinematic, it even looked like Joker was trying to out run a tear in space.

 

I like this idea a lot more than the super special secret relay - the relays are not really iconic for me, so I don't have a problem doing away with them.  

 

For me a bit of handwaving is fine if it makes a good story.  My ideal 'get to Andromeda' is the Arc idea (have them leave sometime between Arrival DLC and the start of ME3), then crucible caused wormhole (makes story sense and doesn't totally ignore the lead up to the ME3 endings), then down the list relay.  



#23
Navasha

Navasha
  • Members
  • 3 724 messages

I personally am leaning toward the whole wormhole theory.   In my head I imagine they could also use it to tie up another loose thread that they completely forgot about in ME3.    That whole 'dying' star filled with dark energy... Haestrom I think it was.   The one that Tali was studying in ME2.   

 

If the wormhole was the cause of star's issues, then it could be one way and temporary.   This would fit all the criteria needed for a logical way of getting to another galaxy in a one way trip.  



#24
Cribbian

Cribbian
  • Members
  • 1 304 messages

I can dig this 



#25
Chealec

Chealec
  • Members
  • 6 508 messages

Black Ark or Wormhole caused when the Crucible fires ... I'm good with either.

 

Leviathan (or Reapers) making a return in Andromeda or having an open relay network back to the potentially hosed or Reaper-infested Milky Way? Not so much.