20 réponses à ce sujet

[Captmorgan72]

So we know that the Darkspawn are a hive mind and they are creatures of the taint, but are they soulless? Do they exist only to serve as vessels for an Old God? Old Gods are high dragons possessed by very powerful spirits, so did the Old Gods create the taint as a way to become truly immortal. The spirits of the fade are similar to the angels of the bible being the first children of the Maker, so the spirits that possessed the high dragons and became known as the Old Gods are similar to the Archangels, especially the fallen ones. So is the taint a supernatural curse created by these Old Gods designed to assure that they would rise again even after being destroyed? Are they the ones that cursed the Golden City in their rebellion against the Maker?

[TraiHarder]

So we know that the Darkspawn are a hive mind and they are creatures of the taint, but are they soulless? Do they exist only to serve as vessels for an Old God? Old Gods are high dragons possessed by very powerful spirits, so did the Old Gods create the taint as a way to become truly immortal. The spirits of the fade are similar to the angels of the bible being the first children of the Maker, so the spirits that possessed the high dragons and became known as the Old Gods are similar to the Archangels, especially the fallen ones. So is the taint a supernatural curse created by these Old Gods designed to assure that they would rise again even after being destroyed? Are they the ones that cursed the Golden City in their rebellion against the Maker?

 

What? Where did you get that the taint was created by the Old Gods?

 

Pretty sure the taint came from the Black City which then infected Cory an the Gang with the taint. From there Cory an the Gang got kinda pissed because they were no longer the Sexy Magisters they once were. So they Went to Dumants crib an busted down the door not knowing that the Taint from them would then infect Dumant creating the first Archdemon BadaBoomBadaBang

[LightningPoodle]

I don't think they are soulless. I think they are misunderstood. We have no true understanding of their intention as a species. You can't talk to them. You can't reason with them. (The Architect and his lot are an exception.) They survive with a purpose. We believe that to be to corrupt an Old God and rage wars on the surface, but that is all we know. We don't know why they need to do this.

 

We don't know if the darkspawn we've seen is all of them. By this I mean fighters. Soldiers. Are there children? Are there families? Is there a civilisation, or a government?

 

I think they are actually just a people trying to carve out a piece of the world for themselves. Unfortunately, the blight that taints them taints everything it touches, so people naturally believe there intention to be evil. Right now, they are like the Qunari. By which I mean, we have only seen a fraction of them. We know the Qunari have a government, but we haven't seen it yet. We haven't seen how they live. How they go about their day to day in their own lands. The same goes for darkspawn.

 

Edit:

 

I don't know where I was going with that. 

[Ballax]

I don't think they are soulless. I think they are misunderstood. We have no true understanding of their intention as a species. You can't talk to them. You can't reason with them. (The Architect and his lot are an exception.) They survive with a purpose. We believe that to be to corrupt an Old God and rage wars on the surface, but that is all we know. We don't know why they need to do this.

 

We don't know if the darkspawn we've seen is all of them. By this I mean fighters. Soldiers. Are there children? Are there families? Is there a civilisation, or a government?

 

I think they are actually just a people trying to carve out a piece of the world for themselves. Unfortunately, the blight that taints them taints everything it touches, so people naturally believe there intention to be evil. Right now, they are like the Qunari. By which I mean, we have only seen a fraction of them. We know the Qunari have a government, but we haven't seen it yet. We haven't seen how they live. How they go about their day to day in their own lands. The same goes for darkspawn.

 

That is incredibly wrong, we know how Darkspawn are made, they're born from broodmothers, surface females dragged down below and force-fed the taint until they become bloated abominations which live only to birth darkspawn until someone comes and puts them out of their misery. Their civilization can be surmised thusly; when a clutch of darkspawn are born sometimes one will be decisively larger and stronger and as such they will slaughter or dominate the rest to become known as an alpha. The Architect, I believe is a good person or trying to be at the very least, his emissaries might one day form a darkspawn civilization and who knows, with the right guidance it might even be a good one. But your average, run of the mill Darkspawn is nothing but a savage quasi-sentient monster.

[LightningPoodle]

That is incredibly wrong, we know how Darkspawn are made, they're born from broodmothers, surface females dragged down below and force-fed the taint until they become bloated abominations which live only to birth darkspawn until someone comes and puts them out of their misery. Their civilization can be surmised thusly; when a clutch of darkspawn are born sometimes one will be decisively larger and stronger and as such they will slaughter or dominate the rest to become known as an alpha. The Architect, I believe is a good person or trying to be at the very least, his emissaries might one day form a darkspawn civilization and who knows, with the right guidance it might even be a good one. But your average, run of the mill Darkspawn is nothing but a savage quasi-sentient monster.

 

In  

 

That's what we know. Though, don't people see the Qunari in a similar light? Monsters who only want to convert everybody to their way of thinking. They might kill each other. Establishing dominance but what civilisation hasn't done that? History is riddled with acts of savagery like this.

 

You have a point. They do use broodmothers to reproduce. But does that mean Darkspawn can't be involved with one another? Have feelings, emotions? A civil way of life, or as civil as a barbaric culture can be.

[thats1evildude]

All indications are that the only emotion common darkspawn are capable of feeling are a desire to kill, reverence for the Old Gods, and perhaps fear.

 

The darkspawn build no homes and have no culture. They just mill through the Deep Roads searching the Old Gods and occasionally fighting amongst each other.

[TraiHarder]

I don't think they are soulless. I think they are misunderstood. We have no true understanding of their intention as a species. You can't talk to them. You can't reason with them. (The Architect and his lot are an exception.) They survive with a purpose. We believe that to be to corrupt an Old God and rage wars on the surface, but that is all we know. We don't know why they need to do this.

 

We don't know if the darkspawn we've seen is all of them. By this I mean fighters. Soldiers. Are there children? Are there families? Is there a civilisation, or a government?

 

I think they are actually just a people trying to carve out a piece of the world for themselves. Unfortunately, the blight that taints them taints everything it touches, so people naturally believe there intention to be evil. Right now, they are like the Qunari. By which I mean, we have only seen a fraction of them. We know the Qunari have a government, but we haven't seen it yet. We haven't seen how they live. How they go about their day to day in their own lands. The same goes for darkspawn.

 

Edit:

 

I don't know where I was going with that. 

LoL carve out a piece of the world by carving up me into little pieces is pretty darn extreme.

 

But as for having a civilization an such yea I don't think so. Pretty sure the taint rots away ones brain giving them only one purpose. We've seen what the taint changes people into an see they aren't the same after words.

 

An honestly I would hate it if the Darkspawn ended up like that with a civilization an such. I just want them to be a barbaric hive mind that are set on finding Old Gods an destroying the world or Thedas at least.

[Aren]

I don't think they are soulless. I think they are misunderstood. We have no true understanding of their intention as a species. You can't talk to them. You can't reason with them. (The Architect and his lot are an exception.) They survive with a purpose. We believe that to be to corrupt an Old God and rage wars on the surface, but that is all we know. We don't know why they need to do this.

 

 

Freedom,when all of them will die they will be free from the calling and  be the new master race.

[Daerog]

Darkspawn are not a hive mind. They can be commanded and directed by an Archdemon, but they are creatures working on a pre-programmed behavior that is encouraged by some sort of song. They are not of "one mind" and they do not share thoughts.

 

A darkspawn can be made into a Disciple, which gives them self-awareness and resistance to the Song which allows "freedom."

 

Darkspawn do not have souls as the other mortals do. They do not connect to the Fade and their dead do not pass through it. Their minds/spirits/souls can be forced into the Fade, as seen in Awakening, but that is different. They are completely alien to demons.

 

They are directly opposed to life, as they choke out life as it is on Thedas. Their very being, nature, substance is a threat to all non-darkspawn. They cannot coexistence with the world as it currently is. The world would have to be blighted, and such a  goal kind of reminds me of Solas' goal... except more empty, dark, and lifeless.

 

Genocide against the darkspawn is justified. They are parasites that offer nothing to the world but corruption and death. Their very nature is doom, since if they succeed in the manner their nature compels them, they would doom themselves since there would be no broodmothers to replace their numbers and they will resort to infighting due to their hostile nature (see The Calling novel with how the blight impacts the feelings of the wardens and Awakening).

 

 

Edit: The blight may serve a natural purpose (maybe... doubtful, but maybe), but the darkspawn are new and their destruction doesn't even leave room for life. Their destruction ends with destruction, there is no new life or creation.

[Captmorgan72]

Wow thats quite the lesson on darkspawn. I thought they had a hive mind, guess not. Where are you getting your information from?

[thats1evildude]

They're a hive mind when they have the Archdemon leading them. Without an Archdemon, they squabble and infight.

"The alphas act like tyrants, splitting the horde and fighting for dominance. Their lack of cohesion is what keeps them from threatening anyone but those who venture close to turn their attention away from the infighting."

The quoted section is from World of Thedas Vol. 1.

[leaguer of one]

*Imagines this with a Dragon age Orge....

 

 

"Taint is love, Taint is life."

[leaguer of one]

That's what we know. Though, don't people see the Qunari in a similar light? Monsters who only want to convert everybody to their way of thinking. They might kill each other. Establishing dominance but what civilisation hasn't done that? History is riddled with acts of savagery like this.

 

You have a point. They do use broodmothers to reproduce. But does that mean Darkspawn can't be involved with one another? Have feelings, emotions? A civil way of life, or as civil as a barbaric culture can be.

Qunari don't rape and corrupt woman to make more of them

 

Sorry, Darkspawn are a diseases, sentient or not. Their very being destroys life.

 

You can't co-exist with a diseases trying to kill you.

[Daerog]

Wow thats quite the lesson on darkspawn. I thought they had a hive mind, guess not. Where are you getting your information from?

 

Hive mind includes the sharing of thoughts and knowledge as a collective. Darkspawn do not do this; they use fear and violence to organize even themselves. Disciples have to speak to communicate, their minds are not connected. Only the Archdemon can dominate hordes of darkspawn without needing to beat them into submission. Sources: Darkspawn Chronicles, The Calling, Awakening.

 

Darkspawn are just DOOM. sources: The Calling, Awakening, codex entries referring to how major battles against darkspawn leave the battlefield lifeless generations afterward. The Silent Plains are an example. The blight doesn't guarantee corruption or infection, or all armies that face darkspawn would perish and the First Blight would have ended Thedas long ago. However, if infection happens, whatever is infected is doomed. Wardens just delay the inevitable. Fiona is an anomaly.

 

The infected are violent, or they will get violent. There was a Warden in The Calling who reflected on how the blight is changing his behavior after the Architect sped up his infection to make him like some sort of "Super Ghoul" (my term, there is no formal name for it), which is the fate of Wardens who do not die and live past their Calling. It made him more aggressive than he once was and he had less regard for the life of those he once considered friends and family. He saw it become so bad that he only snapped out of it when his sister was killed and he allowed the Fereldan military to kill him.

 

The only exception to the violent and/or antisocial behavior was The Messenger, but he still doomed more people than he saved due to his nature of wholly being of the blight, rather than just an infected being.

 

You can always check out the Wikia (dragonage.wikia.com) for more info, but it isn't without bias or assumptions being presented as facts sometimes. It's still the best collection of info online, though.

 

Edit: Speaking of assumptions being presented as fact, all that I wrote is from my perspective and is not to be taken as complete FACT, it is just what I currently understand with the information available.

[Phoe77]

There's also an account in the codex in which one of the darkspawn that is capable of speaking is interrogated by some people who capture it.  It basically says that they are in no way interested in coexisting and will not be satisfied until Thedas is in ruins.  "There is no talk.  No negotiation.  You will die.  Your world will die."

[Xcorpyo]

Are darkspawn soulless? I don’t think so. After all, they are born from living women of different species that succumbed to the taint, so they should have a soul as well, even if not a whole one. I see it as a frayed soul. I imagine it like one of Voldie’s Horcruxes.

 

They have an internal hierarchy of sorts, even if it’s a very savage one. I think the only thing stopping them from evolving into a cohesive community is the taint, that controls every single one and makes sure that it’s prime directive is to find an Archdemon, everything else coming second.

 

But at the same time, the taint is the only thing that is allowing them to survive as a species, because if they lose the ability to taint females of the other species found in Thedas(and the rest of the world), they would lose their only means of reproduction. Even if by some miracle they could somehow turn females into broodmothers without the taint, the fact that they need other species in order to replenish their ranks makes any chance of coexistence impossible.

 

The Architect’s plan was a flawed one. And I mean the second one in Awakening, not his first to taint every single human in the entire world.  That was just plain crazy.  Even if the darkspawn could manage to cut themselves from the Calling, they would still need a constant influx of females from the surface in order to reproduce, so they will attack the other races anyway.

 

A good darkspawn is a dead darkspawn. 

[Aren]

 

 

Darkspawn do not have souls as the other mortals do. 

As far as i'm concerned this is not supported by anything other than Riordan words,Darkspawns have a soul since they can   be awakened and also can reach the fade.

When an archdemon reborn by using them is a matter of will,an Archdemon can't reborn into a disciple  because their will    is too strong.

Will is the key word here not soul,Riordan is just ignorant  since he is not a chamberlain or a first  warden and  he  is not  scholar  like  Avernus.

Every living  creature even the little insects  of  thedas has  a soul, no  soul=no  creativity  life    kinda  like the primordial spirits and demons

 (aside from Cole who   is  a more developed  spirit)

[thats1evildude]

OBJECTION! The Mother sent the consciousness of the Warden and the First into the Fade, not their "souls."

[Captmorgan72]

The quoted section is from World of Thedas Vol. 1.

I really need to get those books. 

[Phoe77]

I read something on the wiki the other day that suggested that arch demons are destroyed when they try to jump into a warden's body because that body already has a soul. If that we're true (and I don't know if it is or not) it would suggest that dark spawn do not have souls.

[Daerog]

As far as i'm concerned this is not supported by anything other than Riordan words,Darkspawns have a soul since they can be awakened and also can reach the fade.
When an archdemon reborn by using them is a matter of will,an Archdemon can't reborn into a disciple because their will is too strong.
Will is the key word here not soul,Riordan is just ignorant since he is not a chamberlain or a first warden and he is not scholar like Avernus.
Every living creature even the little insects of thedas has a soul, no soul=no creativity life kinda like the primordial spirits and demons
(aside from Cole who is a more developed spirit)

I did not say darkspawn don't have souls.

I said they don't have souls AS OTHER MORTALS DO.

We know from Avernus that demons see the darkspawn as completely alien, unlike all other mortals. They are only in the Fade when forced by strong magic as seen in Awakening.

We are told they don't (normally) have a presence in the Fade, and nothing has been shown to discount that yet.

Also, they don't "soul clash" with Archdemons.

So, they may have souls, but they are unlike the souls that are connected to the Fade. They would have "souls" connected to the blight.