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So about the protag...


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#26
Kevinc62

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I don't mind playing as the main character who is in the military.

 

I'm not a fan of the auto dialogue stuff. As far as being like Shepard....don't know. If I can do a playthrough like what Shepard did, that would be fine with me.

 

I estimate that 17 315 105 died plus all the random mercs that were killed throughout the trilogy

 

That's awesome. I'm so gonna do a playtrough like that  :lol:

 

And on the subject, I liked Sheppard more than the Inquisitor, but I prefered DAI freedom... So I guess I lean toward a DA type protagonist. either way, I think we're getting Sheppard 2 regardless of opinions.



#27
Sylvius the Mad

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I will always prefer a blank slate character.

Having a pre-set character prevents me from knowing his mind as I play, and thus defeats my approach to roleplaying. As a result, I found roleplaying basically impossible in the ME series.

A blank slate character is the best part of an RPG.

#28
LinksOcarina

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I will always prefer a blank slate character.

Having a pre-set character prevents me from knowing his mind as I play, and thus defeats my approach to roleplaying. As a result, I found roleplaying basically impossible in the ME series.

A blank slate character is the best part of an RPG.

 

Remember though, Mass Effect is moreso a hybridization of East/West traditions for Role-playing games, so some control over a pre-determined background is now a calling card to the series.

 

I don't necessarily agree it makes roleplaying impossible, but full ownership of the character is not in your hand then.



#29
Fredward

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Hm..

And when do you have time to do science stuff? What does a scientist bring to the squad? It is a shooter, you know... with RPG elements.

 

Well in this installment you're looking for a home for humanity so presumably you'd want someone who knows enough about chemistry, ecology, biology, farm stuff and etc to be able to interpret the data we get from the planets we search. The primary purpose is not killing things but finding something which requires a slightly different skill set. Now I realize you could easily handwave this by just adding a companion/person on the ship who does all the critical thinking for you [or just beaming everything to the mothership] but I think it makes just as much sense to have the brainy one actually leading and having some military as guards or whatever. Not that you'd really need guards. You'd probably have some military training yourself too but yeah.



#30
mickey111

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Like it or not, the head of a Fire Team needs a Leader.. preferably with experience in that kind of thing. That mean you are good at killing, which infers weapons skills.

 

Substitute a military suit for a merc one  and plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.  So, I'm unsure what you expect/want to see.

 

it takes all kinds. in a cold war scenario in which both sides are denied permission to attack each other you'll want the borders guarded by a skilled diplomat with a team that doesn't get twitchy under stress. Peace talks by bureaucrats via transmission isn't quite the same effect as a face-to-face chat. Engineers are needed to operate mechanized vehicles and weaponry, to know how to destroy them. Mass Effect trilogy already has examples of medics, biotics, scientists etc. Also, a lot of the time field medics had to be deployed right behind the front line soldiers and they were too busy treating injuries to fire a weapon. see world war 2 for examples.



#31
ComedicSociopathy

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Probably going to a clone-Shepard with a southern accent and a cowboy hat. 

 

Not sure that's a good thing or a bad thing. 



#32
holdenagincourt

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Agreed. I think the dialogue wheel -- with its "noble/paragon" response near the top, its "smartass/sarcastic" response in the middle, and its "direct/renegade" response near the bottom -- can be extremely limiting. That's because we're choosing our responses based largely upon the attitude we wish our hero to express instead of on the complex idea we wish to communicate. That's not how conversations work in real life.

Yes, attitude is important, but when someone asks you a question you don't immediately think, "Should I answer this in a pleasant, cheeky or angry manner?" That'd be absurd. No -- most of the time, you listen carefully to the speaker and then you frame a logical response that can vary in several ways based upon the information you've just received. The tone of voice you use to deliver your response is a mere by-product of the idea you've chosen to convey.

That's why I think BioWare should replace the simplistic, misleading, emotion-based paraphrases it currently employs with full sentences that express complex ideas. And the tone of voice in which these complex ideas are delivered should be readily apparent from the way the sentences are written.

In my experience, RPG players like to read, they like think, and they like to have complete control over the characters they create. The dialogue wheel in its current form makes this impossible.

I feel that a deeper conversation system like this would give us a far richer roleplaying experience wherein we can create a character of genuine nuance and substance, as opposed to a character of childish emotional extremes. 

 

I agree to an extent. The preconceptions we as players have about the dialogue wheel influence the conversation's course too much in its (the wheel's) most recent iterations. However, I don't think that's down to a dichotomy between reason and emotion as you argue.

 

First and foremost, the gameplay incentive for uniform characterization and metagaming conversations in general needs to be removed. In the first Mass Effect some of the reputation checks were absurdly high for no clear narrative or gameplay reason, like the Ethan Jeong persuasion on one of the earliest story worlds, while also detracting from combat readiness. It was tyrannical in Mass Effect 2 without an import or save editing and was also a problem to a lesser extent in Dragon Age II. The worrisome thing is that while Mass Effect 3's reputation system is an improvement on this, the devs also eviscerated the neutral option and stuffed Shepard to the gills with autodialogue and autocharacterization ("Thessia's lost, and that's on me"). Two steps forward, one step back.

 

Second, the different options need to stack up meaningfully against each other in terms of narrative and characterization. The problem with the neutral option in both games of Mass Effect in which it exists is that it doesn't really do much to characterize Shepard, even as a nonchalant or noncommittal personality. It's basically a way to advance the conversation to the next branch without engaging with the other party's dialogue. In this respect, DA does a better job, because the middle option is both neutral in tone (demurring with wit doesn't hard commit to a position) and colors the protagonist in a certain way (while also allowing NPCs to respond in kind). The ME wheel's neutral option never gained much of an identity not only because the trilogy's morality system doesn't have a role for it, but also because it's just throwaway writing.

 

Third, the wheel is too much of an abstract object of its own at this point. It presumably started out as cognitive shorthand for communicating the tone, mood and emotion of spoken language through written text. However, now it exercises an independent influence on how we perceive the things the protagonist says and does (is something paragon or renegade because the game says it is?) and limits the ways in which he can be characterized by the writers. In a more general sense, this is the course of all institutions.

 

Also as a sidenote, I don't agree that "most of the time," human communication comprises "fram[ing] a logical response that can vary in several ways based upon the information you've just received." I truly wish that were the case. However it seems more realistic (and generally accepted in social science) that a lot of human interaction is indeed based on emotion, the confirmation of priors, the fulfillment of preferences, and even baser obligations like tiredness and hunger.



#33
Sylvius the Mad

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Remember though, Mass Effect is moreso a hybridization of East/West traditions for Role-playing games, so some control over a pre-determined background is now a calling card to the series.

I don't necessarily agree it makes roleplaying impossible, but full ownership of the character is not in your hand then.

DAI gave us "some control over a pre-determined background" without completely robbing us of control like ME did.

I want the developers to be aware of the advantages of the blank slate protagonist, and strive to maintain many of those benefits. DAI did that. DA2 didn't. ME didn't.

#34
Sylvius the Mad

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Also as a sidenote, I don't agree that "most of the time," human communication comprises "fram[ing] a logical response that can vary in several ways based upon the information you've just received." I truly wish that were the case. However it seems more realistic (and generally accepted in social science) that a lot of human interaction is indeed based on emotion, the confirmation of priors, the fulfillment of preferences, and even baser obligations like tiredness and hunger.

If we're being asked to play the character, perhaps we should get to decide what our character is trying to do.

Dialogue options that allow complex ideas are compatible with the other things you describe.

#35
Mirrman70

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It will most likely be closer to Shep than the Inquisitor. It is called Mass Effect: Andromeda...



#36
KumoriYami

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if the protag is an n7 then they'll definitely be military.



#37
Ahglock

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I just don't want auto dialogue. I'm okay with a loosely set background like me.

#38
KaiserShep

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I'm not really picky so long as the dialogue is good, seldom set on autopilot and that anything that is automatic isn't dumb. Unfortunately, Shepard is guilty of this on a number of occasions. The Inquisitor certainly never had that problem.

#39
Guitar-Hero

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I wanna have context in the world and feel like i belong, so not just a text box or "well he's there because._.Well._ Spy n stuff" so predifined for me, as long as i can have a good CC and general control over dialogue im happy



#40
Hanako Ikezawa

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I would much rather have more of a blank set of a character than a set one. 



#41
LinksOcarina

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DAI gave us "some control over a pre-determined background" without completely robbing us of control like ME did.

I want the developers to be aware of the advantages of the blank slate protagonist, and strive to maintain many of those benefits. DAI did that. DA2 didn't. ME didn't.

 

BioWare has never done a blank slate protagonist though

 

A blank slate implies you pre-determine everything about the character, from background to motivations to even their psychology and how they react to things. I know that is something you like personally Sylvius, but I can only  name a single BioWare character that is a full blank slate because of pre-determined elements that are found in their characters for story and sake of ease; and that is the character from Neverwinter Nights (which I argue is BioWares weakest RPG game overall, for different reasons.)

 

Sure, you can control responses to backgrounds in Inquisition (which hides it better than say Mass Effect, where people reacted to your past and you said little in return, and how much emphasis was put on past events for Shepard as well) but they are still pre-determined, giving you a history to contend with regarding your past. This was the case for the likes of Baldur's Gate as well; your history tied to the Bhaalspawn is already set in stone.

 

I guess my argument would be that the Inquisitor is not a full blank slate either. The Inquisitor is much more free-form than Shepard, I would agree on that, but I truthfully don't mind Shepard being a hybrid protagonist; for me it worked well in Mass Effect.

 

Considering the liklihood that the Pathfinder is going to be a subordinate to someone else, I have a feeling though you will get a more open-ended character as you see fit anyway, at least for the first game. 


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#42
General TSAR

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I'm hopeful we move away from grunts.


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#43
wolfhowwl

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A more defined character preferably.
 

Also I hope they have a full name instead of some dumb title.


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#44
Mdizzletr0n

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Like it or not, the head of a Fire Team needs a Leader.. preferably with experience in that kind of thing. That mean you are good at killing, which infers weapons skills.

Substitute a military suit for a merc one and plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. So, I'm unsure what you expect/want to see.


Fire team?

#45
Ahglock

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Fire team?


Are you asking what a fireteam is or how he knows it's a fireteam leader?

Fireteam is a small mobile combat squad at its most general term.

How he knows. Well knows is an exaggeration but the term was used in the leak if I recall correctly.

#46
KaiserShep

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A more defined character preferably.
 
Also I hope they have a full name instead of some dumb title.


I'm on the fence about names, mainly because I feel that the name will probably suck.

#47
RoboticWater

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I'm on the fence about names, mainly because I feel that the name will probably suck.

I don't know about you, but I've never been particularly annoyed by names in anything I watch or play. There might not be a ring to any of them (which is the point I suppose), but they're servicable and don't get in the way.

 

If BioWare kept it simple, I don't see how they could make a name that sucked.



#48
Sylvius the Mad

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BioWare has never done a blank slate protagonist though

A blank slate implies you pre-determine everything about the character, from background to motivations to even their psychology and how they react to things. I know that is something you like personally Sylvius, but I can only name a single BioWare character that is a full blank slate because of pre-determined elements that are found in their characters for story and sake of ease; and that is the character from Neverwinter Nights (which I argue is BioWares weakest RPG game overall, for different reasons.)

Sure, you can control responses to backgrounds in Inquisition (which hides it better than say Mass Effect, where people reacted to your past and you said little in return, and how much emphasis was put on past events for Shepard as well) but they are still pre-determined, giving you a history to contend with regarding your past. This was the case for the likes of Baldur's Gate as well; your history tied to the Bhaalspawn is already set in stone.

I guess my argument would be that the Inquisitor is not a full blank slate either. The Inquisitor is much more free-form than Shepard, I would agree on that, but I truthfully don't mind Shepard being a hybrid protagonist; for me it worked well in Mass Effect.

Considering the liklihood that the Pathfinder is going to be a subordinate to someone else, I have a feeling though you will get a more open-ended character as you see fit anyway, at least for the first game.

I think you're conflating the blank slate protagonist with the mysterious stranger background.

The mysterious stranger has no pre-written background.

The blank slate has no pre-written personality.

BioWare has offered both in, I think, two games: NWN and KotOR.

The blank slate personality is also available in BG, JE, DAO, and DAI.

While I would prefer to have both, I'd settle for just the blank slate.
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#49
Fredward

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If they kept Shep levels of set but added in Hawke levels of dialogue/attitude variation I'd be pretty happy, probably not as happy as Inquisitor levels of not-set but still. They were both pretty pre-established characters but I never really liked Shepard and it was hard to inveigle my way into their brain, less so for Hawke. I can only attribute this to having more ways in with Hawke than with Shepard. Also because sarcasti-Hawke was actually likeable.



#50
sjsharp2011

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I wanna have context in the world and feel like i belong, so not just a text box or "well he's there because._.Well._ Spy n stuff" so predifined for me, as long as i can have a good CC and general control over dialogue im happy

 

 

Yeah as long as the CC has been improved on from DAI that would be enough to convince me they'er heading in the right direction. After all Bioware IMO do a pretty solid job already in all the other areas .It's just the CC for me needs a little more attention than it gets with hairstyles and things like that.