170 réponses à ce sujet

[MrObnoxiousUK]

It is pretty much a given as all action heroes tend to be carved from the same type of stone.

[mopotter]

  Weirdly considering DA:I does give us more of a blank slate character, I actually I felt that I had a lot more control over what kind of person Shep was than I did my Inquisitors. A full on renegade Shep was very different from a paragon one. The Inquisitor seems far more 'samey' across playthroughs.

  Plus the choices you had to make during missions seemed to have more impact for me than the ones we made in DA:I. In DA:I they seemed potentially huge in terms of long term effect on the world (who is divine, fate of the mages/templar, who is on the Orlesian throne) but there wasn't much in the way of immediate personal consequence. Admittedly ME3 didn't exactly deal with all our choices very well, but still, I think it did a better job of it over all.

  I'm a big fan of getting as much control over who our character is as possible, and DA:I did that better in terms of character creation but then didn't really carry it through into the actual game. If ME:A could somehow get the best of both then that would be amazing.

 

p.s. I love DA:I. I've spent hundreds of hours on it and sure I'll spend hundreds more - but i don't actually think its one of the better examples of player choice from Bioware's games.

 

Me too.  I am enjoying DAI and my different characters, but I agree, my Shepards were more varied in personalities and my dialogue options seemed to have definite results more so than I'm doing with my Inquisitors.  

 

I don't role play real well, I tend to pick things I would like to think I'd do, but the situations in ME let me pick a few of the renegade options because they just worked for me.  Well, until I started loosing control in 2 and especially 3 when my balanced Shepards went paragon on me.

 

I'm not a big fan of too much auto-dialogue ME3 had more than I like, but some, if it's well done, is ok.   Always more dialogue options.  Always.  

[Mdizzletr0n]

Are you asking what a fireteam is or how he knows it's a fireteam leader?

Fireteam is a small mobile combat squad at its most general term.

How he knows. Well knows is an exaggeration but the term was used in the leak if I recall correctly.

Thanks for the explanation.

However，that sounds quite a bit different than what I've heard about the protagonist and their role.

[LinksOcarina]

I think you're conflating the blank slate protagonist with the mysterious stranger background.

The mysterious stranger has no pre-written background.

The blank slate has no pre-written personality.

BioWare has offered both in, I think, two games: NWN and KotOR.

The blank slate personality is also available in BG, JE, DAO, and DAI.

While I would prefer to have both, I'd settle for just the blank slate.

 

I would argue there is no difference between the terms, just semantics to conflate a difference.

 

If that is even the case, Shepard has no pre-written personality in that sense, as you make up how ruthless, honorable or friendly they may be. aspects of Shepards personality still remain uncontrollable in the end though, mostly due to how he is this hybridization of game protagonists. It's a very Light-RPG style of character generation in a nutshell; you control the build and the conversations, effectively the choices, the game controls the character at certain points without player input.

[Dabrikishaw]

I really don't have an issue with this.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I would argue there is no difference between the terms, just semantics to conflate a difference.

If that is even the case, Shepard has no pre-written personality in that sense, you make up how ruthless, honorable or friendly they may be, but aspects of Shepards personality still remain, hence the hybridization of game protagonists. It's a very Light-RPG style of character generation in a nutshell.

The difference in ME isn't that there's a pre-determined personality, but that the player lacks the tools necessary to choose options consistent with the personality he has devised.

[LinksOcarina]

The difference in ME isn't that there's a pre-determined personality, but that the player lacks the tools necessary to choose options consistent with the personality he has devised.

 

Thats why its a hybrid, the personality the player has devised will not always work with the pre-determination present in most of the game. It will only work some of the time, in the milieu of what the game gives you.

 

The choices (in terms of big ticket choices and what not) become the points of role-playing. Do you let the Geth or Quarians die, or try to broker peace? Do you save the Rachni Queen, or commit genocide of the entire species? Do you help Garrus or Tali, but decide not to help Jack and Thane? The reasons why are internal to the player, but play out on screen in a different way than they may intend.

 

Those type of choices don't need full control of the player. The personality you devise can work in those situations with some variables, which I know is something you are not fond of because it's not exact, but that is how some role-playing games work in the end. The degree of choice comes from how the conflict is resolved, not how the player decides to resolve it. Hybrid characters do that; Geralt is another example that fits this bill, it is less about the character you are playing, and more about the decisions your character makes in the short and long-term.

[Killroy]

It will most likely be closer to Shep than the Inquisitor. It is called Mass Effect: Andromeda...

I'm sure a lot of people made a similar assumption about Dragon Age 2...

[Ahglock]

Thanks for the explanation.

However，that sounds quite a bit different than what I've heard about the protagonist and their role.

My wild ass guess is they are shooting for a stargate sg1 vibe. You are searching out artifacts and cultures to help you survive. There is an expectation of some level of bad assery in order to survive hostile aliens, flora, fauna. But your team will also be expected to be capable of not making enemies out if potential friends and knowing when they find an artifact. So while a life time soldier like jack is fine but a Daniel Jackson anthropologist is also fine. So you will loosely fit the Fireteam mold but it will include expected roles outside a kill squad.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Thats why its a hybrid, the personality the player has devised will not always work with the pre-determination present in most of the game. It will only work some of the time, in the milieu of what the game gives you.

 

The choices (in terms of big ticket choices and what not) become the points of role-playing. Do you let the Geth or Quarians die, or try to broker peace? Do you save the Rachni Queen, or commit genocide of the entire species? Do you help Garrus or Tali, but decide not to help Jack and Thane? The reasons why are internal to the player, but play out on screen in a different way than they may intend.

 

Those type of choices don't need full control of the player. The personality you devise can work in those situations with some variables, which I know is something you are not fond of because it's not exact, but that is how some role-playing games work in the end. The degree of choice comes from how the conflict is resolved, not how the player decides to resolve it. Hybrid characters do that; Geralt is another example that fits this bill, it is less about the character you are playing, and more about the decisions your character makes in the short and long-term.

The choices my character makes are all about who he is.  That's why he makes those choices.

 

And, again, let me restate (since you seem to have misunderstood), I don't think that Shepard has a pre-written personality.  The problem in ME is that there's no way for the player to play any personality in particular except by chance, because the game doesn't provide enough information about the choices being made.

 

Every dialogue option is a relevant choice.  Every dialogue option should leave the player with no uncertainty at all about what he's choosing and why.

 

As I said to Casey Hudson, "I demand certainty".

[AtreiyaN7]

The style of character being more/less defined isn't a major issue for me. I would be open to the protagonist being less defined a la DA:I or more defined a la ME. Just give me a good story with decent writing and interesting characters - those are the things that I care about the most (wait, I do care about being a Vanguard, so hey, Vanguard class please, BW!).

[marcelo caldas]

We'll play as an Alliance Military N7, a jarhead. I think its better than heros by chance such as the Inquisitor.
By skill is way more natural, everyone knows you should be in charge and no one question you power.

Except for Kai Leng, was the worst anthagonist ever I think

[Mdizzletr0n]

My wild ass guess is they are shooting for a stargate sg1 vibe. You are searching out artifacts and cultures to help you survive. There is an expectation of some level of bad assery in order to survive hostile aliens, flora, fauna. But your team will also be expected to be capable of not making enemies out if potential friends and knowing when they find an artifact. So while a life time soldier like jack is fine but a Daniel Jackson anthropologist is also fine. So you will loosely fit the Fireteam mold but it will include expected roles outside a kill squad.

Actually, this doesn't sound bad. I'd love to be in more of a Daniel Jackson role this time around.

[Mdizzletr0n]

We'll play as an Alliance Military N7, a jarhead. I think its better than heros by chance such as the Inquisitor.
By skill is way more natural, everyone knows you should be in charge and no one question you power.

Except for Kai Leng, was the worst anthagonist ever I think

How do we play as that if we're supposed to be "untested?" I don't see how one can be an N7 if they've never done anything, outside of say nepotism or something along those lines.

Also, there's already enough games where you're solely a government order monkey. So I'm still hoping this isn't the case.

[NKnight7]

I have to agree with others that I hope the new protagonist doesn't have a huge military background, although I am interested to see what the background of the protagonist is.

[KaiserShep]

Except for Kai Leng, was the worst anthagonist ever I think

 

I read that in Sylvester the cat's voice.

[NKnight7]

I read that in Sylvester the cat's voice.

 

 

Wow, I completely forgot about Sylvester. I can totally see it now.

[LinksOcarina]

The choices my character makes are all about who he is.  That's why he makes those choices.

 

And, again, let me restate (since you seem to have misunderstood), I don't think that Shepard has a pre-written personality.  The problem in ME is that there's no way for the player to play any personality in particular except by chance, because the game doesn't provide enough information about the choices being made.

 

Every dialogue option is a relevant choice.  Every dialogue option should leave the player with no uncertainty at all about what he's choosing and why.

 

As I said to Casey Hudson, "I demand certainty".

 

No I understand, I am just saying you are not getting that certainty you search for because it's not designed that way in Mass Effect. Or at least, in the trilogy it wasn't. That is how hybrid characterization works though, there is a degree of uncertainty built into the game.

[SerriceIceDandy]

I don't necessarily mind the protagonist's career being military again; although I'd prefer to be paramilitary/mercenary. After all we need to have a reason why they're combat trained unless the game kicks off from being a civilian. 

I actually hope the protagonist has a personality that is distinctive from Shepard. Obviously it remains in Bioware's interest to keep him/her somewhat neutral to allow for immersion. But I want someone who in non-dialogue tree conversation I could identify as a different personality.

As quite a lot of people have touched upon, the main way to influence the personality of the protagonist is the dialogue wheel: as that's really the only character exposition we get for ourselves. I quite liked DA2's conversation wheel, as it allowed a character to react differently to different scenarios where it made sense. So, for example, you were playing decisions based on your own morality, you could have Hawke act sensitively to one thing, whimsically to another, and angry to another option. Whereas in Mass Effect it tends to Space-Jesus, Neutral Narrative Progression, or Galaxy C-U-Next-Tuesday. Hawke had more of an organic feel whereas Shepard just became this rather boring individual who would act in a very predictable manner. If they could combine the two so that you could have diplomatic-yet-'renegade' (i.e. achieve the same results without being a psychopath), or a passionately-aggressive-paragon; I'd be happy.

[CuriousArtemis]

I definitely prefer a "Shepard type" over an "inquisitor type" for ME:A. For me ME is all about storytelling and a character-driven narrative. A blank slate of a character just won't cut it.

[Sylvius the Mad]

No I understand, I am just saying you are not getting that certainty you search for because it's not designed that way in Mass Effect. Or at least, in the trilogy it wasn't. That is how hybrid characterization works though, there is a degree of uncertainty built into the game.

And I'm saying the process you described doesn't explain why I lack that certainty.  It has nothing to do with the pre-written background of pre-written character.

 

ME fails purely because of the abysmal paraphrasing and heavy-handed voice-acting.

[Brightwolf]

I'd rather have a military background than be a scientist or engineer or w/e.  Most of what we do ingame is pseudo military stuff, running around going pew pew at enemies.  The reason the various science types are always supporting NPCs is because doing the science-ey stuff can be boring.  Imagine if you had to solve a third order non-homogeneous differential equation involving a 3rd rank tensor in 4 dimensions every time you access the galaxy map and plot a course?  Or having to do a groundwater chemical composition analysis for every new planet to see if the water is safe to drink?  Having the science people being NPCs lets them hand wave all that away.  Basically, the only reason to be a science type is to do science, which I don't want to do in a game because I can (and do) do science safely and easily in real life, at whatever level I want from reading Discover to getting a degree in physics.  What I can't do in real life is run around and save the day by blowing the nasty bad guys to kingdom come, but its fun to pretend I am so I play games.  Basically, I play games in general, and RPGs in specific so I can pretend to do something cool and awesome that I cannot do, or or cannot do safely, in real life.  Being that egghead who has the military escort is much less interesting to me than being the military escort, because I can egghead in real life.  I can't (safely, conveniently, or in a manner inducing to having fun) be a military escort in real life.

[slimgrin]

it just better not be another military grunt. I'm sick to death of the military crap.

 

 

This. I want the choice to be a privateer, explorer, raider or whatever. Just so I don't have to be a member of a federation or alliance again. 

[Killroy]

This. I want the choice to be a privateer, explorer, raider or whatever. Just so I don't have to be a member of a federation or alliance again. 

 

Sounds like you want an MMO.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

 

Wow, I completely forgot about Sylvester. I can totally see it now.

 

He thinks the mooks are really desthpicable.