170 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Ah - you can't even equip anything other than pistols playing as a Sentinel in ME1.

That's not true at all. In ME1, Shepard always has all 4 weapon types equipped.

[KaiserShep]

That's not true at all. In ME1, Shepard always has all 4 weapon types equipped.

True, but all but one are useless for Adepts and Sentinels. On any class other than the infiltrator and soldier, you can't even look through the sight of the sniper rifle. You can point blank things, but that'll usually end badly, at least at lower levels.

[Chealec]

That's not true at all. In ME1, Shepard always has all 4 weapon types equipped.

 

Only if you're a soldier IIRC - other classes are restricted to certain weapon types.

 

Oh, sorry, you're right - just loaded up my last save game to check... no proficiency with any weapons but he's lugging all of them about for no good reason.

[RoboticWater]

Then perhaps the two shouldn't mix.

Except they already have, quite successfully. BioWare were just careful where they put the random.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Except they already have, quite successfully. BioWare were just careful where they put the random.

Really, we could mimic the effect of accuracy penalties (decreased DPS) by having damage penalties.

Then players would still feel like they were in control, but the damage would have the stat-based randomness in it.

[Sylvius the Mad]

True, but all but one are useless for Adepts and Sentinels. On any class other than the infiltrator and soldier, you can't even look through the sight of the sniper rifle. You can point blank things, but that'll usually end badly, at least at lower levels.

That's usually how I played with my Engineer, using the pistol at distance and the sniper rifle up close.

Combined with pause-to-aim (since you can't use the sight while paused anyway), it's very effective in close quarters. Works brilliantly against Saren.

[Hazegurl]

I don't think the game would make much sense without a Military PC.  They should have some skills if they're gonna be pew pewing all over the map.  I love playing a mage in DA but other than Hawke, I still have a difficult time believing the Circle would let mages learn how to fight well enough to destroy an Arch Demon or run down every rift demon in Thedas.

 

And I would never want another Inquisitor.  Give me a character with a tangible background and personality over some blank slate headcanon PC anyday.

[RoboticWater]

Really, we could mimic the effect of accuracy penalties (decreased DPS) by having damage penalties.

Then players would still feel like they were in control, but the damage would have the stat-based randomness in it.

But then TTK would be annoyingly inconsistent and we'd have bullet sponges or enemies that drop dead immediately in our sights. Borderlands has this exact problem, and the combat frequently feels either unfair, not engaging, or simply a chore.

 

Over reliance on stats only worsens gunplay.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If they do give us a character like Hawke or Shepard, hopefully the character of the character gets to be decided by the player this time instead of just assuming how the players will have the character of the character be. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

But then TTK would be annoyingly inconsistent and we'd have bullet sponges or enemies that drop dead immediately in our sights. Borderlands has this exact problem, and the combat frequently feels either unfair, not engaging, or simply a chore.

Over reliance on stats only worsens gunplay.

Under-reliance on stats can damage the coherence of the game world. Player skill should only matter if the player wants it to.

This player never wants that.

If this were a straight up shooter, I wouldn't be asking for a way to avoid relying on player skill. But this is a BioWare game. This is Mass Effect. Mass Effect has never relied on player skill. ME1 had stat-droven accuracy. All three games allowed the aiming of weapons and the triggering of abilities while paused. In ME3, I almost never fired my weapon (this is a natural consequence of the ammo mechanic added in ME2 - as soon as ammo became a consumable, I began hoarding it), because I could always just pause and fire off abilities. Find cover, camp there, and wait for enemies to make themselves visible.

That's not shooter gameplay. I always took action while paused.

So my request for stat-based effects stems from a desire to improve the non-action gameplay that has been present throughout the series.

Because action combat has no place in a roleplaying game. If people want to play MEA as an action game, that's fine, but if I play it I'll play it as an RPG.

[LinksOcarina]

But then TTK would be annoyingly inconsistent and we'd have bullet sponges or enemies that drop dead immediately in our sights. Borderlands has this exact problem, and the combat frequently feels either unfair, not engaging, or simply a chore.

 

Over reliance on stats only worsens gunplay.

 

They did it a lot better than Dead Island at least, where those stat changes didn't matter at all.

[RoboticWater]

Under-reliance on stats can damage the coherence of the game world.

No it doesn't. Unless you're suggesting that any game that isn't an RPG somehow has an inconsistent game world.
 

Player skill should only matter if the player wants it to.

And clearly BioWare's target audience wants it to matter.
 

This player never wants that.

And why should anyone care? The vast majority of people are perfectly content with the direction BioWare have taken Mass Effect. Why should they change perfectly fun game mechanics for the sake of one (I hesitate to use the word fan so...) person.

[KaiserShep]

Under-reliance on stats can damage the coherence of the game world. Player skill should only matter if the player wants it to.

This player never wants that.

If this were a straight up shooter, I wouldn't be asking for a way to avoid relying on player skill. But this is a BioWare game. This is Mass Effect. Mass Effect has never relied on player skill. ME1 had stat-droven accuracy. All three games allowed the aiming of weapons and the triggering of abilities while paused. In ME3, I almost never fired my weapon (this is a natural consequence of the ammo mechanic added in ME2 - as soon as ammo became a consumable, I began hoarding it), because I could always just pause and fire off abilities. Find cover, camp there, and wait for enemies to make themselves visible.

That's not shooter gameplay. I always took action while paused.

So my request for stat-based effects stems from a desire to improve the non-action gameplay that has been present throughout the series.

Because action combat has no place in a roleplaying game. If people want to play MEA as an action game, that's fine, but if I play it I'll play it as an RPG.

 

I'd really love to see a YouTube stream of how this plays out. I'm trying to imagine just how long it must take to finish a firefight in this game with that method. 

[sjsharp2011]

Under-reliance on stats can damage the coherence of the game world. Player skill should only matter if the player wants it to.

This player never wants that.

If this were a straight up shooter, I wouldn't be asking for a way to avoid relying on player skill. But this is a BioWare game. This is Mass Effect. Mass Effect has never relied on player skill. ME1 had stat-droven accuracy. All three games allowed the aiming of weapons and the triggering of abilities while paused. In ME3, I almost never fired my weapon (this is a natural consequence of the ammo mechanic added in ME2 - as soon as ammo became a consumable, I began hoarding it), because I could always just pause and fire off abilities. Find cover, camp there, and wait for enemies to make themselves visible.

That's not shooter gameplay. I always took action while paused.

So my request for stat-based effects stems from a desire to improve the non-action gameplay that has been present throughout the series.

Because action combat has no place in a roleplaying game. If people want to play MEA as an action game, that's fine, but if I play it I'll play it as an RPG.

yeah I tend to only use my powers when in pause mode too as it's the best way I can find to make suer my power hit the target it's meant for. Shooting is entirely different though as I don't if I'm just letting loose with my gun as I can shoot pretty accurately without the need to pause but certainly for when I'm using a power I do

[Mdizzletr0n]

I think that accuracy makes more sense for the RPG mechanic in ME than a gun damage stat does. A gun is pretty much going to do the same damage no matter who shoots it (granted some are more powerful than others and could stay as a stat on the weapons themselves). It doesn't rely on strength or anything as a melee weapon would. Accuracy would make more of a difference as a player stat.

[The Night Haunter]

Do you know what I really wanna be? Don't guess I'll tell you: a scientist. Obviously a scientist that shoots things skillfully but primarily a scientist.

Where'd you learn to shoot like that?

 

7-11....

 

 

=)

[mickey111]

Sylvius, have you managed to work your way through the trilogy yet? Must be very time consuming playing in psuedo turn-based mode.

[The Night Haunter]

Sylvius, have you managed to work your way through the trilogy yet? Must be very time consuming playing in psuedo turn-based mode.

Attempting to insult people is rarely an effective way of getting your point across. It just makes it seem like you have no reasonable counter to you opponents points and instead are resorting to the childish 'No, your stupid!'.

 

Especially when he is just describing how he enjoys playing. Are you saying he is having fun wrong?

[RoboticWater]

If this were a straight up shooter, I wouldn't be asking for a way to avoid relying on player skill. But this is a BioWare game. This is Mass Effect. Mass Effect has never relied on player skill.
ME1 had stat-droven accuracy. All three games allowed the aiming of weapons and the triggering of abilities while paused. In ME3, I almost never fired my weapon (this is a natural consequence of the ammo mechanic added in ME2 - as soon as ammo became a consumable, I began hoarding it), because I could always just pause and fire off abilities. Find cover, camp there, and wait for enemies to make themselves visible.

That's not shooter gameplay. I always took action while paused.

Mass Effect was always intended to be played real time with intermittent pauses, that's why the power wheel isn't a toggle. The series was always about skill. ME1 might have been straddling the fence, but BioWare made up their minds with 2 and the vast majority of players enjoyed the change. It's good that the pause mechanic lowers the skill floor and allows the game to appeal to a wider audience, but that doesn't change the fact that ME is a skill based shooter at its core.

Mass Effect is an RPG and a TPS, but that doesn't mean that every single aspect of it needs to be made from equal parts shooter and RPG. Some mechanics aren't possible to hybridize perfectly within a reasonable amount of time (if ever), so rather than settle for the unpolished mess that was ME1, BioWare opted to alter the RPG:TPS ratio in favor of the shooter half when it came to combat mechanics.

 

So my request for stat-based effects stems from a desire to improve the non-action gameplay that has been present throughout the series.

So long as it doesn't impede the core mechanics and fun of the combat system, I'm all for it. Stat reliance messes with both.

 

Because action combat has no place in a roleplaying game.

The God of Roleplaying hath spoken ladies and gentlemen. Do not attempt to mix genres for it is simply wrong. Appealing to different audiences? Heresy!

 

If people want to play MEA as an action game, that's fine, but if I play it I'll play it as an RPG.

Interesting how you seem to frame this whole argument as if you're the only normal one. 

[Mirrman70]

It's useless trying to argue with Sylvius guys...

[mickey111]

Attempting to insult people is rarely an effective way of getting your point across. It just makes it seem like you have no reasonable counter to you opponents points and instead are resorting to the childish 'No, your stupid!'.

 

Especially when he is just describing how he enjoys playing. Are you saying he is having fun wrong?

 

Just trying to fit in. Learned ages ago that sylvius is immovable on RPGs. Has not budged an inch in all his years.

[Majestic Jazz]

I will always prefer a blank slate character.

Having a pre-set character prevents me from knowing his mind as I play, and thus defeats my approach to roleplaying. As a result, I found roleplaying basically impossible in the ME series.

A blank slate character is the best part of an RPG.

I was wondering when you would show up.....

[The Night Haunter]

Just trying to fit in. Learned ages ago that sylvius is immovable on RPGs. Has not budged an inch in all his years.

Just means he knows what he wants, nothing wrong with that.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Sylvius, have you managed to work your way through the trilogy yet? Must be very time consuming playing in psuedo turn-based mode.

I have. I played through ME3 several weeks ago.

It was boring. There were almost no decisions to be made. Shepard made bad decisions without my consent and then seemingly felt bad about things that happened that weren't her fault. Shepard's character arc made no sense.

Honestly, the combat was probably the best part of ME3, and the combat was consistently uninteresting. But at least it didn't go out of its way to irritate me.

[Sylvius the Mad]

It's useless trying to argue with Sylvius guys...

No it isn't.

You might learn something.