170 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

The vast majority of people are perfectly content with the direction BioWare have taken Mass Effect.

The direction BioWare has taken Mass Effect involves a revolutionary pause-to-aim mechanic and entirely optional action elements.

We don't disagree on the lesson. We disagree on the facts about ME.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'd really love to see a YouTube stream of how this plays out. I'm trying to imagine just how long it must take to finish a firefight in this game with that method.

If you build Shepard to minimize cooldowns, not that long. In-game, it's probably only slightly slower than shooting.

From the player's perspective, it's much slower, because of the constant pausing. I don’t think I ever let the clock run for more than a second without pausing to look around.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Mass Effect was always intended to be played real time with intermittent pauses...

Explain to me why any player should care what the design intent was.

All that matters to a player is what's actually in the game. If the player cannot see it or interact with it, it cannot matter to the player.

There is no right way to play. There are only ways to play.

It's good that the pause mechanic lowers the skill floor and allows the game to appeal to a wider audience, but that doesn't change the fact that ME is a skill based shooter at its core.

Mass Effect is an RPG and a TPS, but that doesn't mean that every single aspect of it needs to be made from equal parts shooter and RPG.

If it's a roleplaying game, then every signle part of the game needs to accommodate roleplaying, right down to the inventory management.

As for the skill floor, I've previously argued than an RPG should be playable by a quadriplegic.

So long as it doesn't impede the core mechanics and fun of the combat system, I'm all for it. Stat reliance messes with both.

There's fun in ME's combat? News to me.

You don't think your character should get better at things?

Interesting how you seem to frame this whole argument as if you're the only normal one.

My doing that is exactly as legitimate as when a shooter fan does it.

That's the point.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Attempting to insult people is rarely an effective way of getting your point across.

In what way was that an insult? I detected no insult there.

[The Night Haunter]

In what way was that an insult? I detected no insult there.

Maybe I'm just overly sensitive on the internet, but if said with a certain tone it could be meant as an insult (although I guess that is true about almost every sentence).

 

It could be either an honest inquiry or an attempt to insult by insinuating that your choosen playstyle is poor. I'm just prone to reading the worst in people on the internet I guess, sadly not without reason, but if I was wrong sorry @mickey

[Sylvius the Mad]

Maybe I'm just overly sensitive on the internet, but if said with a certain tone it could be meant as an insult (although I guess that is true about almost every sentence).

 

It could be either an honest inquiry or an attempt to insult by insinuating that your choosen playstyle is poor. I'm just prone to reading the worst in people on the internet I guess, sadly not without reason, but if I was wrong sorry @mickey

I dispute that tone has meaning, and I've written extensively on how implication isn't real, so those weren't conclusions I was ever going to draw.

[Eonetic]

I think Mass Effect 2 achieved the best possible result, a partially set character that gave you enough room to define her/him for yourself, the added Renegade/Paragon interupptions added a interesting impulsive events to flesh out your character and their interactions even more.

 

You can give me 5 races with 8 voice actors and none will come close to displaying the amount of personality that Jennifer Hale brought to Shepard.

[KaiserShep]

If you build Shepard to minimize cooldowns, not that long. In-game, it's probably only slightly slower than shooting.

From the player's perspective, it's much slower, because of the constant pausing. I don’t think I ever let the clock run for more than a second without pausing to look around.

I dunno if I have what it takes to play Chess Effect, man. I salute you, I guess. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

I dunno if I have what it takes to play Chess Effect, man. I salute you, I guess.

The combat is actually pretty boring by BioWare standards. I'd take NWN or DAO combat over ME's any day.

NWN is actually a great example. It didn't even grant the player total control over positioning. Characters engaged in melee combat would move around, shifting their feet to gain advantage. Players called it the dance if death, partly because the characters would sometimes wander over traps while doing it.

But that makes sense. Fighting near traps should be more dangerous.

I would prefer a stronger divide between player and character.

[BabyPuncher]

I would prefer a stronger divide between player and character.

 

Gameplay wise.

 

Yet everything you say about the issue when it comes to story seems to indicate you want a smaller divide between player and character. Which is a terrible idea for a pile of reasons.
 

[Chealec]

Sylvius, have you managed to work your way through the trilogy yet? Must be very time consuming playing in psuedo turn-based mode.

 

TBH I find the pause mechanic incredibly useful to counter the terrible AI of your squadmates... go to settings, tell them not to use any offensive powers; they're a lot more effective when you tell them exactly what to do.

[mickey111]

TBH I find the pause mechanic incredibly useful to counter the terrible AI of your squadmates... go to settings, tell them not to use any offensive powers; they're a lot more effective when you tell them exactly what to do.

meh, I just winged it. As a vanguard a team would only slow me down.

[Chealec]

meh, I just winged it. As a vanguard a team would only slow me down.

 

I've never actually played any of the SP games as a Vanguard.

 

I've "completed" the trilogy 4 times:

 

Infiltrator

Adept

Soldier

Sentinel

[Sylvius the Mad]

Gameplay wise.

It's all gameplay. Everything you do in the game is gameplay.

Yet everything you say about the issue when it comes to story seems to indicate you want a smaller divide between player and character.

I disagree. The character and the player should be entirely distinct entities. But since making choices on behalf of the character requires that the player know the character's mind, the character needs to be the one to populate that mind. Otherwise, there's no way for the game to provide the player enough information on which to base decisions.

I encourage the developers not to give the players metagame information, not because I don't want the players to have it, but because I don't want the developers to fail to provide sufficient in-character information.

For example, if a cutscene reveals information which isn't available to the character, the developers might then expect the player to use that information to inform future decisions, even though that wouldn't make any sense (because the character doesn't possess that information). By having that information not be available at all, we eliminate the risk.

Which is a terrible idea for a pile of reasons.

You say this sort of thing a lot, but I don't recall you ever actually providing those reasons.

I can't question your assumptions if I can't see what they are.

[Chealec]

The character and the player should be entirely distinct entities.

 

I'll buy that in a classic isometric type of RPG - but things that take control away from the player in a shooter, and Mass Effect is pretty much an RPG-lite shooter with a lot of conversation events, are just frustrating (which is basically why Geth are so reviled in ME3:MP ... stunlock).

 

 

Hit my main party member with a freeze spell in Pillars of Eternity, fine. I've got the exact same control over the rest of the party and can order them to take action to mitigate the situation - I am still playing the game even if the main character gets downed (someone will have a res spell probably).

 

Hit "me" with a freeze "spell" in a Mass Effect type game and you've essentially reduced the game experience to holding down the shift key and clicking an icon for a squadmate, which is really boring... unless "I" get killed when frozen then it goes from boring to annoying and having to reload.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Hit my main party member with a freeze spell in Pillars of Eternity, fine. I've got the exact same control over the rest of the party and can order them to take action to mitigate the situation - I am still playing the game even if the main character gets downed (someone will have a res spell probably).

Hit "me" with a freeze "spell" in a Mass Effect type game and you've essentially reduced the game experience to holding down the shift key and clicking an icon for a squadmate, which is really boring... unless "I" get killed when frozen then it goes from boring to annoying and having to reload.

If you add clicking an icon for Shepard, that's how I played nearly all of ME3.

I was always playing all of the characters. Shepard served as my camera, but that was the only special thing about her.

[LinksOcarina]

If you add clicking an icon for Shepard, that's how I played nearly all of ME3.

I was always playing all of the characters. Shepard served as my camera, but that was the only special thing about her.

 

Really, the best way to solve this is to give more direct control of characters in Mass Effect, reminiscent of Dragon Age, basically. 

[marcelo caldas]

I've never actually played any of the SP games as a Vanguard.

 

I've "completed" the trilogy 4 times:

 

Infiltrator

Adept

Soldier

Sentinel

 

ME2 I had the most fun playthroughts ever with my VanShephard, biotic charge used to slowdown time, and send enemies flying. You could punch them or shotgun them as you please, to much fun, I hope the slowdown returns, at least on SP.  

[marcelo caldas]

I've never actually played any of the SP games as a Vanguard.

 

I've "completed" the trilogy 4 times:

 

Infiltrator

Adept

Soldier

Sentinel

 

I found the Engineer one of the best classes on ME3, tech explosions every 2 seconds.

[Chealec]

Really, the best way to solve this is to give more direct control of characters in Mass Effect, reminiscent of Dragon Age, basically. 

 

Or make their AI better so they can be useful in combat without your intervention.

[LinksOcarina]

Or make their AI better so they can be useful in combat without your intervention.

 

Funny, they were always pretty good without intervention.

 

The only issue was pathfinding when it came to cover, that was a problem. That can be rectified.