188 respuestas en este tema

[Whitering]

I have always chosen Kaiden over Ashley in the past, like every single time, because I do not like Ashley.

 

This time I killed Wrex, myself, not have Ashley do it, and Kaiden expresses doubt and reticence. Knowing what is coming, even at that point in the game, means that Ashley will make the better Spectre. Yes, she's a bit racist, but she's also way more decisive and willing to make hard decisions (like shooting Wrex).

 

I am not saying shooting Wrex is the best outcome, it's just what I did this time, I am focused on Kaiden's reaction, and how weak it makes him look in the context of a war with the Reapers.

 

Yep, it's the first time I shot Wrex, and the first time I noticed how poor of Spectre Kaiden would be, thus I left him behind, because it's about the war.

[Vanilka]

I have always chosen Kaiden over Ashley in the past, like every single time, because I do not like Ashley.
 
This time I killed Wrex, myself, not have Ashley do it, and Kaiden expresses doubt and reticence. Knowing what is coming, even at that point in the game, means that Ashley will make the better Spectre. Yes, she's a bit racist, but she's also way more decisive and willing to make hard decisions (like shooting Wrex).
 
I am not saying shooting Wrex is the best outcome, it's just what I did this time, I am focused on Kaiden's reaction, and how weak it makes him look in the context of a war with the Reapers.
 
Yep, it's the first time I shot Wrex, and the first time I noticed how poor of Spectre Kaiden would be, thus I left him behind, because it's about the war.

 

I think that depends. I think arguing which one is better is like arguing whether it's vanilla or chocolate ice-cream that's superior. There's no right or wrong here. There are just different points of view and opinions. Ashley has different qualities than Kaidan and vice versa. In my opinion, that doesn't mean that any of them is less qualified. Not to even mention that BW basically reduces them to one character and has them act similar as far as the key events of the game go (Mars, Horizon, Citadel Coup) but with different attitudes.

 

Personally, what I've always liked about Kaidan is that he thinks stuff through before and after he does anything and he makes duty and saving people a priority at all times regardless of his feelings or personal opinions, he prefers diplomacy and negotiation to shooting, and he doesn't mind being proven wrong, but won't kiss anybody's ass, either. Moreover, it's my opinion that anybody can pull a trigger. But you also have to decide whether doing that is truly necessary because we're talking about taking lives here. If you want to talk about who acts appropriately or not in this particular situation, why didn't Ash just disable Wrex instead of killing him? She shot him in the back and then finished him off with several bullets. I'm with Kaidan on this: What the actual hell? That was a living being she just ended, an ally, a friend, could be somebody's family, too. If you shoot, you don't have to shoot to kill.

 

I always save Kaidan on Virmire. Not because I dislike Ashley. I enjoy both characters. However, I find Kaidan irreplaceable on the battlefield, I have more trust in him, and I admit I also like him better for the thoughtful and open-minded person he is. Yet another thing is that, because he's a tech specialist, I send him with the nuke and we need to make sure that thing gets the job done and won't blow up under our asses while we delve into an unknown situation to save Ashley that told us that they can handle themselves (In this kind of situation, I don't have time to doubt her and have to take her word for it.), was supposed to have an escape plan according to Kirrahe, and that we already gave all the help we could on the way. Seeing Kaidan grow and develop throughout the franchise, I've never regretted my decision.

 

Also, I don't think Ashley is racist. I've always seen her as more of a realist or maybe a bit of a cynic. Let's face it, a lot of what she says proves to be true sooner or later.

 

Well, that's just how I see it anyway. I will always be of the opinion that they're both very capable individuals with great potential and you won't make a mistake by saving either of them.

[GGGenesis]

Kaidan is much more of an empathetic soul than Ashley who is more hardlined and by the book. Neither of them are better or worse than the other. I've always found it more fitting to have Ash around in my renegade playthrough than Kaidan because he's more diplomatic and Ash is more about results and making hard decisions because she finds them necessary.

[sjsharp2011]

Personally I play both ways as I like both characters for differnt reasons in my latest playthrough though I chose Kaiden. Partly because I want another Biotic in 3 as I'm not a Biotic myself this time as I'm playing a female Infiltrator and partly because my last few have had Ashley so felt in need of a change.

[Flaine1996]

Uhmm.... Just because someone shows a sense of compassion and justice for a fallen comrade does not make them weak or not willing to do what it takes when a situation gets rough... I only play a renegon female and I love how Kaidan balances her out. That doesnt mean though I did not like Ashley I really like her too and how strong and fierce she is... And if you see in ME3, either, Kaidan or ashley pulls a gun on sheps face to protect the council and i say that takes guts. I choose Kaidan most of the time because, to me, his jump of ranks seem consistent and his character develops wonderfully. I believe ash is the same and I really dont understand how people view her xenophobic just because she distrusts aliens afterall its just been a few years since the first contact war. Hell, my shepard distrusts everybody... So its your own preference who to save but both are wonderful characters that have a strong sense of justice and backbone in their own ways.

[themikefest]

Why I choose Ashley over Kaidan?

 

2 reasons

She kills Wrex for me. Excellent

She's a soldier like myself when I was in the military a long time ago.

[Monica21]

I have always chosen Kaiden over Ashley in the past, like every single time, because I do not like Ashley.

 

This time I killed Wrex, myself, not have Ashley do it, and Kaiden expresses doubt and reticence. Knowing what is coming, even at that point in the game, means that Ashley will make the better Spectre. Yes, she's a bit racist, but she's also way more decisive and willing to make hard decisions (like shooting Wrex).

 

I'm with Vanilka on this. Considering how ridiculously easy it is to talk Wrex down I don't think that Kaidan wondering how you let the conversation get to that point makes him more or less willing to make hard choices. The decision about Wrex is your decision. It's your conversation and your choice, and your squad mates will react as their personality dictates. And considering that they both play almost exactly the same role in ME3, and Ashley doesn't do anything Kaidan wouldn't do, I think it's a bit of a leap in logic. Personally, I think that she would make a worse Spectre because she's unwilling to ask questions and see if there are better solutions.

[Whitering]

I'm with Vanilka on this. Considering how ridiculously easy it is to talk Wrex down I don't think that Kaidan wondering how you let the conversation get to that point makes him more or less willing to make hard choices. The decision about Wrex is your decision. It's your conversation and your choice, and your squad mates will react as their personality dictates. And considering that they both play almost exactly the same role in ME3, and Ashley doesn't do anything Kaidan wouldn't do, I think it's a bit of a leap in logic. Personally, I think that she would make a worse Spectre because she's unwilling to ask questions and see if there are better solutions.

 

Ya, but I am looking at that moment. I think if it had been Wrex and Kaidan alone on that beach there'd be a dead Lt. and a bunch of dead Salarians, and Wrex would have become indoctrinated while trying to get the cure. Ashley would not let it get that far, she would have shot Wrex long before that. That's what a Spectre needs, they are not therapists. Kaidan is a fine officer for the military, he's not one to blow up a base with innocent people in it in order to accomplish and important objective.

 

Also, the fact that in ME 2 and 3 they say the exact same lines basically just shows laziness on the part of the devs, ME 1 had better characterization for those two, who were not well handled in ME2, and the beginning of ME3 (up to the Udina part).

[Monica21]

Ya, but I am looking at that moment. I think if it had been Wrex and Kaidan alone on that beach there'd be a dead Lt. and a bunch of dead Salarians, and Wrex would have become indoctrinated while trying to get the cure. Ashley would not let it get that far, she would have shot Wrex long before that. That's what a Spectre needs, they are not therapists. Kaidan is a fine officer for the military, he's not one to blow up a base with innocent people in it in order to accomplish and important objective.

 

Also, the fact that in ME 2 and 3 they say the exact same lines basically just shows laziness on the part of the devs, ME 1 had better characterization for those two, who were not well handled in ME2, and the beginning of ME3 (up to the Udina part).

 

We'll have to agree to disagree about hypotheticals then. Again, it's ridiculously easy to talk Wrex down. What makes you think Kaidan couldn't have done that? Unless you believe that shooting Wrex is always the correct action, in which case that's an RP decision that you can only make for yourself during whatever playthough you're in. I've done both, as well as had Ashley do it, and it's made sense for whatever character I'm playing.

 

As for ME3, you can't simply throw away their roles as lazy writing and also determine that Ashley would be the better Spectre. Their roles are what they are. The writers gave them their actions and words. Their characters are defined. Just because you don't agree with their characterizations doesn't mean you can ignore what they are.

[Vanilka]

All I can say is that's a lot of speculation about somebody who can stop bullets with his mind and doesn't need a gun to take out enemies and who does good enough so that he leads special ops and teaches his own teams on combat eventually. What does Ashley do in ME3? No, I'm honestly asking, I've never had her in ME3. I don't suppose she teaches and leads a squad of biotics.

 

If we're talking ME1, he's never lost a man to hostile action. His record is not only spotless, but exemplary according to Doc Chakwas. But he did totally obliterate that turian merc in self-defence when he was just 17. Well, and that kid's got older and stronger but more self-controlled since then. And we don't know how he would've reacted because we never have the option to see it. Simple as that. Saying he would've failed the whole mission just because of one or two lines he gives you when you empty a gun into Wrex, that's a hell of a stretch.

[Whitering]

We'll have to agree to disagree about hypotheticals then. Again, it's ridiculously easy to talk Wrex down. What makes you think Kaidan couldn't have done that? Unless you believe that shooting Wrex is always the correct action, in which case that's an RP decision that you can only make for yourself during whatever playthough you're in. I've done both, as well as had Ashley do it, and it's made sense for whatever character I'm playing.

 

As for ME3, you can't simply throw away their roles as lazy writing and also determine that Ashley would be the better Spectre. Their roles are what they are. The writers gave them their actions and words. Their characters are defined. Just because you don't agree with their characterizations doesn't mean you can ignore what they are.

But they are not defined, in ME2 they say and do the exact same things, basically even if you were in a relationship with them, and in ME3, they do the same thing and say the same thing up until Udina. Yep, that's characterization, let me guess, are you someone who said the ending was fine because that's what Bioware wanted?

 

I adore these games, but that does not mean they are perfect. Obviously one person wrote both Ashley and Kaidan in ME2 and ME3.

[Monica21]

What does Ashley do in ME3? No, I'm honestly asking, I've never had her in ME3. I don't suppose she teaches and leads a squad of biotics.

 

I honestly don't think she does anything. She's promoted when you meet her before the Council meeting early in the game, but I don't know why. I don't know of any special commendations or any particular reason for the promotion though, aside from working with you to defeat Saren and her role on Horizon. But honestly, I got so annoyed with her the one time I did save her that I let Garrus shoot her during the standoff. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

But they are not defined, in ME2 they say and do the exact same things, basically even if you were in a relationship with them, and in ME3, they do the same thing and say the same thing up until Udina. Yep, that's characterization, let me guess, are you someone who said the ending was fine because that's what Bioware wanted?

 

I adore these games, but that does not mean they are perfect. Obviously one person wrote both Ashley and Kaidan in ME2 and ME3.

 

No, I'm saying that that is their characterization and you don't throw it out the window because you disagree with the people who created their characters. And more leaps in logic? I see where this is going so I'll just end with agree to disagree.

[Vanilka]

I adore these games, but that does not mean they are perfect. Obviously one person wrote both Ashley and Kaidan in ME2 and ME3.

 

That is incorrect. I don't know about ME2, but in ME3 they have different writers. I think some parts are group effort, though. Like Mars. I do agree it's lazy writing to have them fill the same role, though. I don't like it. In fact, because I like both of these characters, this treatment of them upsets me. And it also upsets me BW yanks them around like that and makes them pretty much disposable in all three games. It's kind of sad. But at this point I can't do more than make the most of it. It's not like they'll go back and fix anything, sadly. They still have different personalities, attitudes, and unique dialogue, though.

[Vanilka]

I honestly don't think she does anything. She's promoted when you meet her before the Council meeting early in the game, but I don't know why. I don't know of any special commendations or any particular reason for the promotion though, aside from working with you to defeat Saren and her role on Horizon. But honestly, I got so annoyed with her the one time I did save her that I let Garrus shoot her during the standoff. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Ahh, I was afraid of that. I've heard a lot of complaints about Ashley's ME3 writing. The fact that she doesn't do much on the ship. You know those moments you walk in on Kaidan doing reports or searching for his teams or when you talk to him about his rise through ranks and getting his own squads while he's still in hospital. So I was wondering whether Ashley did anything. That's kind of disappointing if there's nothing to talk about there. I'd like to know what she did while Shep and her were separated and why the hell she changed style so dramatically. I've also seen that cutscene when she gets totally hammered aboard the Normandy and that quite puts me off... I mean... Alliance marines... getting drunk... on my ship... What if we have an emergency? No, thank you. Don't we have rules against that?

 

As for the promotions, I haven't yet grasped how ranks work in ME. I should check the wiki if it has anything. But I've heard people complaining about her having made a suspicious jump in ranks. I'm sure she deserved a promotion for her help with Saren and Horizon, but I still think that promotions usually go gradually and take time...? It's not like you can go from a grunt to an admiral because you did something awesome. Or so I would think.

 

You're braver than I. After all I've heard about the writing and seen in friend's vids, I've decided her character development is best stopped on Virmire. She gets medals and fame and gets to be celebrated as a hero which she very much deserves, surely redeeming her family's name that way. That brings some sort of closure to her ME1 story, imo. And I get to pretend Ashley and Kaidan don't turn into clones sometimes just because BW was lazy.

 

The Citadel standoff is so ridiculous, though. We argue about a door... and somebody gets shot because of it...   But when you put it that way, I guess it's a good opportunity to get rid of a character you feel you're totally done with.

[Whitering]

That is incorrect. I don't know about ME2, but in ME3 they have different writers. I think some parts are group effort, though. Like Mars. I do agree it's lazy writing to have them fill the same role, though. I don't like it. In fact, because I like both of these characters, this treatment of them upsets me. And it also upsets me BW yanks them around like that and makes them pretty much disposable in all three games. It's kind of sad. But at this point I can't do more than make the most of it. It's not like they'll go back and fix anything, sadly. They still have different personalities, attitudes, and unique dialogue, though.

Ya, I agree, that's why I focus on their ME1 behaviour and Kaidan's late game ME3 behavious (I haven't seen Ashley's yet, because this is the first time I chose her, in my twelve or so playthroughs of ME1).

 

I posted here after my Horizon meeting with Ashley, whom I did not romance, well, ever, but this is a femshep, and got to the interaction and was like, WTF? It's the exact same? And then watched Mars on youtube with her instead of Kaidan and was like, what?

 

Ashley might not have trusted you after you joined with Cerberus, I mean all their interactions are valid, I guess that's why they went that route, but the same freaking lines, like exactly the same! Kaidan might be all sensitive about missing you and whatever, that's not really in ME1 Ashley's wheelhouse. Like she's more soldiery and stoic. Basically, Tali, Liara, Garrus, all okay with you and Cerberus because they trust you implicitly. At least one of Ashley and Kaidan should have been written to walk a line between the two.

 

But anyway, by Virmire, Ashley seems like she'd make the better Specter. And that's all I can say about that.

 

As for promotions, don't forget, a lot of soldiers died in ME1, especially if you saved the Ascension. Ashley is a pretty competent soldier from a military family, has experience fighting the Geth, Saren, and the Reapers. It's not hard to imagine her getting promoted quickly.

 

The absolute worst thing about Horizon though, is this time I went to the Citadel first, I normally don't (I have only played ME2 three times), and meet Anderson, became a Specter, got emails from Hackett...and you can't bring that up in the discussion? What?

 

Like when they say you betrayed the Alliance, you can't say...umm, actually...

 

Overall, eek.

[Miss Golightly]

I've played it both ways, but I've saved Kaidan more than Ash because not only do I like him better, his skill set is more valuable to me than Ashley's.

I'm not a huge fan of Ashley's personality. I respect the strong female soldier personality and her focus, but she just seems like one of those people I tend to have a lot of friction with. I'm more of a "think first, and act accordingly" type of person, and Ash is very much a "leap before you look" person. But that's just me, I know others feel differently, and that's cool too.

 

Now when it comes to who would be a better Spectre...

 

Let's say you have two employees. Employee A is fast and efficient at their job, but isn't so good at customer service and dealing with difficult people. Employee B is the best customer service rep on your team and they can handle difficult customers, but maybe they aren't as fast as your other employees (but they're still good at their job nonetheless).

They're both valued members of your team because they both excel in their own way and you can use them both in a variety of situations.

Now let's say you're looking to promote either Employee A or Employee B to be the manager of your company. The efficiency of Emloyee A is undeniable and you'd be lost without it, but you also know that people who are damn good at customer service are hard to find and Employee B represents your company better than anybody else on your team. Do you choose someone who can get the job done like no one else, or do you choose the person who paints a good picture of your company?

 

I think they both have qualities. I like the idea of Ashley becoming a Spectre and kind of getting redemption for her family that way. The Williams' were shamed for so long, and for a Williams to become the second human Spectre, that's kind of a big "eff you" to the system that looked down upon them. She's a career military woman and she will do what she has to do to get the job done. For me, story wise, I prefer leaving Ash on Virmire and getting the redemption for her family that way. But I think the Spectre route works too.

Kaidan is a little less hotheaded and more reasonable than Ash. On Mars and in the hospital, he doesn't jump on you like Ash does for working with Cerberus, and he's more willing to put that in the past. He's just a nice guy who is more willing to listen through until the end before making a conclusion, whereas Ash is more likely to get halfway through the story and then shoot. 

 

I highly doubt all Spectres have the same methods. It's said by many that some Spectres act as if they are "above the law", and perhaps they are and the Council turns a blind eye to them because they get results and that's all they want. I think Ashley would get results faster than Kaidan, but maybe not in the cleanest or most orthodox of means. Kaidan would probably be respected for being a little gentler but also able to bring the heat when necessary.

I feel like Kaidan would be more likely to hesitate, whereas Ash won't take a chance and will plant a bullet between your eyes just to be safe.

 

Both would be fine Spectres. If you're playing Paragon, I think Kaidan would be the guy you'd want for the job. Renegade, Ashley maybe fits the bill more.

[Whitering]

Ya, but Person A is how I play Shepard. I hang up on the Council every time because, damn, that's funny, but I save them also. Now, I don't work that way in real life, it's an RPG. It just feels like Kaidan wouldn't make the hard choice until it was too late. I mean, he did kill his instructor, but that was for revenge. I do generally play Paragon, and feel that even as a Paragon Spectre you have to make some hard choices, there's nothing (except ME3 Udina) to indicate that Ashley will make the wrong choices, she just won't be so wah, wah about them.

[Monica21]

Ahh, I was afraid of that. I've heard a lot of complaints about Ashley's ME3 writing. The fact that she doesn't do much on the ship. You know those moments you walk in on Kaidan doing reports or searching for his teams or when you talk to him about his rise through ranks and getting his own squads while he's still in hospital. So I was wondering whether Ashley did anything. That's kind of disappointing if there's nothing to talk about there. I'd like to know what she did while Shep and her were separated and why the hell she changed style so dramatically. I've also seen that cutscene when she gets totally hammered aboard the Normandy and that quite puts me off... I mean... Alliance marines... getting drunk... on my ship... What if we have an emergency? No, thank you. Don't we have rules against that?

I actually have trouble following the ranks in the game. Some of them don't make sense. And not only did Ashley get promoted, she also went to Officer Training School, apparently. Who am I to judge Hackett or Anderson though? It's just that there's no real explanation when you do get a better sense of Kaidan's promotion. And yeah, the drinking on ship bothers me. The fraternization rules should probably bother me too though.

You're braver than I. After all I've heard about the writing and seen in friend's vids, I've decided her character development is best stopped on Virmire. She gets medals and fame and gets to be celebrated as a hero which she very much deserves, surely redeeming her family's name that way. That brings some sort of closure to her ME1 story, imo. And I get to pretend Ashley and Kaidan don't turn into clones sometimes just because BW was lazy.

Hah, I don't know about that. I was playing a male Shepard who romance Ashley and then Miranda and wanted the conflict in ME3. Except the conflict is just kind of annoying. When you're on Mars and Liara asks you why you're so committed (or something) and Shepard's response is, "Because I remember what I'm fighting for" while turning to look at Ashley. And I'm just like, no. No, that's not what I meant by that line. And I tried to be nice on Mars but every "nice" dialogue was a flirt line and the neutral responses felt unkind. The second time I visited her in the hospital I chose the "I want to fix this" line, because I wanted to fix the relationship and smooth over what happened on Horizon, not to get back together. (There's no way my Shep was leaving Miranda.) Her response feels like a jealous teenager. She says, "What about Miranda? I wear armor into battle, not a catsuit" or something like that. It sounded really petty, and as a woman myself, it was just disappointing.

The Citadel standoff is so ridiculous, though. We argue about a door... and somebody gets shot because of it... But when you put it that way, I guess it's a good opportunity to get rid of a character you feel you're totally done with.

At that point I really was just done. I didn't want her on the Normandy and I didn't want want to go way back and save Kaidan. At least she went out doing what she believed. Her last words were, "I had to take a stand." So I guess at least there's that.

I did want to replay ME2 and ME3 as a male Shep having saved Kaidan, so I found a save file that pretty nearly matched everything I did. As quick as ME is to play through, it gets tedious.

[Vanilka]

I hate the Horizon encounter because they did both characters great injustice. These people stood at our sides the whole first game and they did away with them like that in ME2. On the other hand, I can't help but agree with them in a way. The thing is,

 

• Shepard doesn't contact them and lets them believe she/he is dead (because the writing sucks).
• They find Shepard on Horizon, thus confirming rumours that Shepard is alive and works with Cerberus.
• Cerberus performed absolutely monstrous experiments throughout ME1.
• Cerberus is a terrorist organisation outlawed in Council Space.
• Joining Cerberus is an act of treason.
• So, technically, yeah, you're a traitor. You just don't realise it immediately because you have no choice and you know you have good intentions and you're doing good work. The VS doesn't have this kind of luxury. There's no way for them to confirm what you say is true. Shepard doesn't even try. And it's been long two years since they saw you last.
• Kaidan/Ashley are dealing with the Collector/Cerberus threat the best they can given the resources they have.
• Given the shock of meeting Shepard alive and with terrorists after they spent two years mourning and putting themselves together without Shepard letting them know -> they think Shepard didn't die at all because resurrecting people in MEU is not officially a thing -> they think Shepard avoided them, only to eventually get caught doing something worse than illegal -> which makes Shepard look more suspicious -> they're happy to see Shepard alive and well, but they have a small emotional explosion because of the circumstances of the encounter and they simply can't trust Shepard.
• They can't throw all their life and work behind the second Shepard appears and join them, even if they didn't hate Cerberus with passion. That would be stupid and careless. Hell, they might even have orders to arrest or kill Cerberus operatives they encounter. Moreover, Tali didn't join us right away, either. She joins you much later when she's done with her business and it might also be because you save her sorry ass from being overwhelmed by the geth. Notice Shepard can give her evidence it's truly Shepard and not a clone. Garrus had no choice because he would die otherwise. Shepard saves his sorry ass and Cerberus fixes it.

 

I think that, for all its lame writing and poor execution, the Virmire Survivor makes a lot of sense on Horizon. Both Ashley and Kaidan. I actually agree with them. My first reaction after Shepard woke up in ME2 was that I DON'T WANT TO WORK WITH CERBERUS and HOW DO I GET AWAY??? The first thing I did when I was able to roam around was report to Anderson and the Council. (Fun fact: My fav Shepard is Sole Surivor. Yup, the one Cerberus sent right to the thresher nest.) So I understand where the VS are coming from. I actually think it's a great moment for them when they finally stop being just sidekicks and become their own people.

BUT

The whole thing could still use a lot of improvements and Ashley/Kaidan definitely deserved better than be treated like one character. Shepard is written extremely poorly and produces barely any reaction to meeting them or explanation to anything. The whole thing doesn't make a lot of sense. The VS tells you they're there to investigate Cerberus, but they don't interrogate you, for example. As you say, you can't bring up that you were trying to contact them or that you talked with Anderson and Council and got your Spectre status back.

 

The whole thing with Horizon gave me the impression they just wanted to get rid of both characters and it makes me mad. I don't expect Shepard and Kaidan to bang behind the crates when they meet, but, hell, I do goddamn wish they got more love and care. I must say that, when I played this game for the first time and I romanced Kaidan, I was extremely disappointed by this. I was looking forward to meeting all Shepard's former friends and her love interest a great deal, only for the VS to get this kind of treatment and about five minutes of screen time in total. (They don't even get a file or a vid in the Lair of the Shadow Broker. Maddening!) Finding out that Kaidan and Ashley become one character felt so wrong. It still feels wrong. It's probably one of the reasons I might never let Ashley get past Virmire because it would feel weird for her to merely replace Kaidan, who I saved first, in some of the key events in the game instead of getting her own and altering the world state in her own way.

 

Frankly, yeah, the way Ash and Kaidan are treated is total bullshit and I hate it. On the other hand, I wouldn't dismiss their character development in ME2 and ME3 because of that. Their role in the game is, unfortunately, what it is. It's partly because BW is lazy and partly because they're forced to go through the same situations. (How would you react if your friend came back from the dead after two years? Would you welcome them with open arms or would you be suspicious? How would you react if you found out they worked with terrorists? Would you be understanding or disappointed? Etc.) What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that their similar reactions aren't that surprising and that their similar roles don't take away from their overall character development, in my opinion. They still have their own attitudes and other dialogues that show you what kind of mindset they have. I do wish each of them had a unique role in the game and I will forever hate that's not a thing. But that doesn't take away from the fact they can both handle themselves in the following games. It's in the game, so it's part of their characters whether we approve of it or not. It very much happens in the game and it very much happens to both characters.

 

I apologise for this massive wall of text. I have many feelings on the topic, apparently.

 

As for the ME1 and Spectre thing, I just don't think being ruthless and quick to shoot makes you a better Spectre. It kind of gives me Saren and Tela Vasir vibes. Who were undeniably remarkable Spectres, but they also left behind nasty body counts and eventually felt like they could justify just about anything... We also can't forget Wrex isn't some sort of enemy that shoots at us. It's somebody we have a disagreement with. I just think gunning him down is over the line. But that's my personal opinion. So, I guess that's where we'll have to agree to disagree. I have no problem with that.

[Whitering]

Oh, I agree, they have a right to feel the way they do, unless you show up with Garrus and are a reinstated Spectre who has already visited the Normandy crash site (seriously, why can't Tali and Garrus come with you?) at the request of Admiral Hackett.

 

There are so many conversations in the game where you can say...I'm a Spectre, and it stops everything, why can't you say it there? Maybe I should make a mod that makes the Citadel off limits until after Horizon, it's not like there is anything you need there, like I said it's the first time out of the four that I've actually gotten my Spectre status first.

[Vanilka]

I mean, he did kill his instructor, but that was for revenge.

 

I think he did that for self-preservation. (I might be wrong.) Vyrnnus did break Rahna's arm and that got Kaidan understandably upset but, in the end, he says that Vyrnnus beat the crap out of him for standing up for her and he actually pulled a knife at him (In the Foundation comics, he cut Kaidan's side with it, too.) and that's where he snapped and broke the turian's neck. How do we know he wouldn't react in a similar way if he had to deal with Wrex? We don't.

[Vanilka]

Oh, I agree, they have a right to feel the way they do, unless you show up with Garrus and are a reinstated Spectre who has already visited the Normandy crash site (seriously, why can't Tali and Garrus come with you?) at the request of Admiral Hackett.

 

There are so many conversations in the game where you can say...I'm a Spectre, and it stops everything, why can't you say it there? Maybe I should make a mod that makes the Citadel off limits until after Horizon, it's not like there is anything you need there, like I said it's the first time out of the four that I've actually gotten my Spectre status first.

 

Yeah, it's mostly that the writing is lame. (ME2 isn't exactly an example of great writing on the whole.) You're not supposed to get a chance on Horizon because the writers decided so, no matter how many good arguments you have. It makes no sense and it's upsetting. There's no reason for Anderson or Hackett keeping somebody who's investigating Cerberus in the dark about Shepard. And yet here we are... 

[Monica21]

I think he did that for self-preservation. (I might be wrong.) Vyrnnus did break Rahna's arm and that got Kaidan understandably upset but, in the end, he says that Vyrnnus beat the crap out of him for standing up for her and he actually pulled a knife at him (In the Foundation comics, he cut Kaidan's side with it, too.) and that's where he snapped and broke the turian's neck. How do we know he wouldn't react in a similar way if he had to deal with Wrex? We don't.

 

I hold the opinion that Kaidan is a lot like Jack, just with more discipline and training. BAaT was no picnic and I don't think it should be ignored that he killed a trained Turian general at a very young age. One of the elevator conversations on the Citadel has Ashley saying that she's noticed Kaidan is stronger on the battlefield. His reply is that he used to hold back, but after seeing what he saw on Eden Prime, that he won't anymore. And as an LI, you can comment on him holding back and being afraid to really let his biotics loose because of BAaT.

 

And Kaidan actually is a very powerful biotic. The differences though, are that Jack had no friends and no family and underwent harsh testing by Cerberus. Kaidan's history is obviously significantly different. The fact that someone is thoughtful shouldn't discount whether that person can "make hard decisions."

[Whitering]

I hold the opinion that Kaidan is a lot like Jack, just with more discipline and training. BAaT was no picnic and I don't think it should be ignored that he killed a trained Turian general at a very young age. One of the elevator conversations on the Citadel has Ashley saying that she's noticed Kaidan is stronger on the battlefield. His reply is that he used to hold back, but after seeing what he saw on Eden Prime, that he won't anymore. And as an LI, you can comment on him holding back and being afraid to really let his biotics loose because of BAaT.

 

And Kaidan actually is a very powerful biotic. The differences though, are that Jack had no friends and no family and underwent harsh testing by Cerberus. Kaidan's history is obviously significantly different. The fact that someone is thoughtful shouldn't discount whether that person can "make hard decisions."

But Kaidan wasn't standing with Wrex in the bay of the Normandy or anything, they weren't and wouldn't be friends (Wrex is basically evil, he admits to all sorts of bad stuff if you talk to him), but he still gets wimpy about Wrex on Virmire. I also don't care if someone is thoughtful, but I took his exchange there to mean he would have taken too long to make the decision. Thoughtful and decisive can go together hand in hand, but not always.

 

Also, Ashley never met Kaidan before Eden Prime, so she's just being nice I think heh.

[Vanilka]

Nah, you can get comments about Kaidan being powerful from different companions, including Garrus and Wrex, and different NPCs throughout the franchise. I can't goddamn remember who it was that mentioned he's one of the top human biotics in the Alliance. (Perhaps Udina? Maybe somebody can help me out?) Moreover, Ashley is too brutally honest to say something she doesn't mean, in my opinion. If she just did it out of politeness, she'd probably refrain from making comments about him drooling over the dancers in Chora's Den or him not understanding women, too. But I suppose the whole franchise's just nice to Kaidan so that he's not sad? And Anderson was just polite when he pushed him to start training his own biotic squads?

 

You still haven't answered my original question: Why wasn't it enough to stop Wrex? Why was it necessary to shoot him several times like a maniac until he died? Why is it the right way to "make the hard decision"? Because Kaidan's reaction is not wimpy. Kaidan's reaction is perfectly appropriate towards somebody who displays this kind of behaviour.