Questa discussione ha avuto 188 risposte

[Monica21]

Yes, because of that one interaction. It was, in my opinion, whinery. Not shoot first ask questions later, but quick and decisive action, it's not like I took out my sniper rifle and shot Wrex before talking to him. Once Wrex pulled his gun on me, well, Kaidan has no business questioning the outcome in public. Maybe I am overreacting, I saw that interaction for the first time in my 12th or 13th playthrough, on Sunday.

 

That's not what happens. At all. It really isn't. Kaidan saying, "I know he was angry but I didn't think he'd lose his life over it" is not questioning Shepard or whining about what happened. He does not question what Shepard did. If anything, Kaidan's reaction is nothing more than surprise about how the events played out.

 

And "quick and decisive action" does not always equate to shooting people in the face. You can take quick and decisive action by choosing your words carefully. Again, I've played the scene multiple ways and there are valid RP reasons for all of them. If your Shepard decides that Wrex is too much of a liability to have on his team then that decision is entirely up to Shepard. But extrapolating your squad reactions, when none of them question what you did, to somehow equating it with who's a better soldier and, by extension, who would make a better Spectre is not how logic works.

[Vanilka]

If we're talking about "quick and decisive", nobody really does anything the moment Wrex pulls out his gun. Bullets are fired much later. I wouldn't call that "quick and decisive". If Wrex had fired the moment he had pulled his weapon out, Shepard would've been shot and nobody would've stopped him. Unless the devs had decided Shep would have shields in this cutscene, like they sometimes randomly do, and gunfight would've ensued.

[Whitering]

Quick and decisive is Shepard doing the quickdraw to defend herself. Ashley also, presumably, got her gun out. Kaidan doesn't technically need a gun I suppose, but he just stands there.

[Monica21]

Kaidan is not part of the conversation. He's further down the beach and presumably only hears the gunshots. Ashley is the one standing behind Wrex waiting for you to tell her whether or it to shoot him.

[Whitering]

Kaidan is not part of the conversation. He's further down the beach and presumably only hears the gunshots. Ashley is the one standing behind Wrex waiting for you to tell her whether or it to shoot him.

So, literally everyone is concerned about Wrex and Ashley is aware enough to be wary and watch her commander's back, and Kaidan hangs out down the beach...are you trying to help your case or hurt it? I got the feeling he was closer because of how little time passes between the third shot and him showing up but I guess he could have run up in those few seconds, so it's not like he has to be close, I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[Monica21]

So, literally everyone is concerned about Wrex and Ashley is aware enough to be wary and watch her commander's back, and Kaidan hangs out down the beach...are you trying to help your case or hurt it? I got the feeling he was closer because of how little time passes between the third shot and him showing up but I guess he could have run up in those few seconds, so it's not like he has to be close, I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt.

 

No, it's because Shepard tells Ashley to be ready. Hence, Ashley walks down with Shepard and ends up behind Wrex. That's why one of your options (sometimes) is to have Ashley shoot him. The rest of your squad mates are further down the beach too. Are you trying to show how little you know about the actual interaction rather than the "feeling" you got from the interaction?

[Whitering]

No, it's because Shepard tells Ashley to be ready. Hence, Ashley walks down with Shepard and ends up behind Wrex. That's why one of your options (sometimes) is to have Ashley shoot him. The rest of your squad mates are further down the beach too. Are you trying to show how little you know about the actual interaction rather than the "feeling" you got from the interaction?

 

Woah, slow down Monica, we've had a nice chat so far. Ahh, well, I can forgive Liara and Tali, they are basically teenagers, Garrus is the only one where I'm unsure of whether he should be closer to the action. Ashley and Kaidan should be backing you up. And okay, yes you do tell Ashley to keep an eye out, but let's just pretend we are both in the same military, and part of the same unit, and our commander and you head down the beach to deal with a potential problem...I would follow. Not too close, just to be ready, but I have played a lot of team sports.

[Monica21]

Woah, slow down Monica, we've had a nice chat so far. Ahh, well, I can forgive Liara and Tali, they are basically teenagers, Garrus is the only one where I'm unsure of whether he should be closer to the action. Ashley and Kaidan should be backing you up. And okay, yes you do tell Ashley to keep an eye out, but let's just pretend we are both in the same military, and part of the same unit, and our commander and you head down the beach to deal with a potential problem...I would follow. Not too close, just to be ready, but I have played a lot of team sports.

 

You can feel free to pretend that's what you'd do in that situation, but that's not what happens. Shepard gave an implicit invitation to Ashley and not to Kaidan. And hey, I'm responding in kind.

[Whitering]

Well, I am not trying to change anyone's mind, just stating my belief and explaining it. I guess a mod can close this thread since obviously we've reached an end to such a discussion.'

 

Overall, I enjoyed the thread, thank you all for participating.

[themikefest]

Woah, slow down Monica, we've had a nice chat so far. Ahh, well, I can forgive Liara and Tali, they are basically teenagers, Garrus is the only one where I'm unsure of whether he should be closer to the action.

Remember that Liara and Garrus don't have to be on Virmire. Liara can be saved after Virmire and Garrus doesn't have to be recruited. If both are not on Virmire at the same time, Wrex will not be shot no matter how much the player wants to have him shot

[Whitering]

Remember that Liara and Garrus don't have to be on Virmire. Liara can be saved after Virmire and Garrus doesn't have to be recruited. If both are not on Virmire at the same time, Wrex will not be shot no matter how much the player wants to have him shot

 

Really...you have explored so much of the mass effect series and I really appreciate all the knowledge you share on these forums. I have never not recruited Wrex and Garrus. So the only characters you need are Tali, Liara, Ashley and Kaidan?

 

Hmmm...

[themikefest]

Really...you have explored so much of the mass effect series and I really appreciate all the knowledge you share on these forums. I have never not recruited Wrex and Garrus. So the only characters you need are Tali, Liara, Ashley and Kaidan?

 

Hmmm...

Yes.

 

I've done a couple of playthroughs where I had only Liara, Tali and Ashley/Kaidan as squadmates when I finished the game. That happens because I rescued Liara before Virmire and shot Wrex.

 

You can choose to recruit Garrus or Wrex or if you like, recruit both.

[Whitering]

Oh so you have to get one of them? That's because they lead you to Liara via Fist?

[themikefest]

Oh so you have to get one of them?

Yes. Or both if you choose
 

That's because they lead you to Liara via Fist?

No.

You deal with Fist first before ever becoming a spectre. You learn about Fist through Garrus or Wrex. Liara isn't available until Udina mentions her name after becoming a Spectre. After taking Command of the SR1, you can rescue Liara on Therum right away  or wait till later.

[Whitering]

Yes. Or both if you choose
 

No.

You deal with Fist first before ever becoming a spectre. You learn about Fist through Garrus or Wrex. Liara isn't available until Udina mentions her name after becoming a Spectre. After taking Command of the SR1, you can rescue Liara on Therum right away  or wait till later.

Jesus I am tired, I meant Tali.

[Vanilka]

I think the position of the companions is tricky when it comes to making cutscenes itself. It's a lot work and you generally want to avoid doing any extra work. (There's also the matter of what themikefest said - some companions might not even be recruited.) Even just to set characters to walk in appropriate direction and speed takes time. I agree that Kaidan should be around and watch. (We can assume/headcanon he does because he's off screen. Technically, the cutscene is literally among Shepard and Wrex... and sometimes Ash.) The problem is that often doesn't happen in BW games. As long as the devs don't need a character, they don't touch it until they do need it. That's why we have awkward scenes like the fight between Kai Leng and Thane where Shepard literally stands there and stares at the wall. (I'm not making this up. This is literally how the scene is made because the focus at the moment is on Kai Leng and Thane. Which drives me crazy because Shepard and co. look like morons for not doing anything. Wouldn't be the first time, either.)

All I can say is that I wish they included Kaidan in the scene somehow, but I wouldn't ever want him to shoot Wrex the way Ashley does it. That's not something I want to see him do.

Either way, given that I have never shot Wrex, I never see whether Ashley or Kaidan have my back and are ready to protect me. (I need to assume they do.) However, from what I know about how these cutscenes are made, they both very likely just stand on the beach in the default pose... ACTUALLY! Let me check...

 

 

Yup.   "Uhh... guys...? A little help here?"

 

And because I solve the situation peacefully, this is all they do during my standoff. I get, like, zero protection.   I guess they think I'm that awesome and can handle it solo.

 

Anyway, that's not as much of an argument as it is an observation/fun fact. Kaidan looks like he joins the party late because, I bet, the devs didn't touch him until they had to make him talk and it probably didn't occur to them to make him look battle ready.

[themikefest]

Jesus I am tired, I meant Tali.

Tali shows up after dealing with Fist

[Monica21]

Anyway, that's not as much of an argument as it is an observation/fun fact. Kaidan looks like he joins the party late because, I bet, the devs didn't touch him until they had to make him talk and it probably didn't occur to them to make him look battle ready.

 

Was this with flycam?

 

But yes, the dialogue assumes that Ashley is watching Shepard's back. When you shoot Wrex, Ashley is standing behind him. If Shepard signals Ashley to shoot Wrex, she's behind him. As for their positioning, Ashley doesn't need to be there unless Wrex is shot, so yes, they probably do just leave her there.

[Vanilka]

Was this with flycam?

 

But yes, the dialogue assumes that Ashley is watching Shepard's back. When you shoot Wrex, Ashley is standing behind him. If Shepard signals Ashley to shoot Wrex, she's behind him. As for their positioning, Ashley doesn't need to be there unless Wrex is shot, so yes, they probably do just leave her there.

 

Indeed. I watched the whole standoff from this angle. Nothing changed. (And I didn't expect anything to change. This is actually exactly what I expected to see.) It's not something we're supposed to see. So they're not in any proper position whatsoever. And they won't unless specific requirements are met, as you say. Ashley literally teleports behind Wrex when you pick an option that triggers her scene.

[iM3GTR]

I always find it funny when Saren is holding Shepard by the throat, and Garrus sometimes just stands there.

[Vanilka]

I always find it funny when Saren is holding Shepard by the throat, and Garrus sometimes just stands there.

 

I've had something similar happen with Tali. It's super awkward. 

 

 

Tali, darling, could you, please, do something? You know, when you have time and stuff?

[Flaine1996]

I've had something similar happen with Tali. It's super awkward. 

 

 

Tali, darling, could you, please, do something? You know, when you have time and stuff?

Nah they're too busy checking out sarens ass... I mean look at it pretty good for a turian :3

[Whitering]

Tali shows up after dealing with Fist

But to get to Fist you need either Garrus or Wrex, one of the two right?

 

Vanilka, that's why I did the playthrough this way, this time.

 

I chose to be a strict commander to both Ash and Kaidan because the Horizon scene is really only made for an LI or very, very close friend, and the Hospital scene in ME3 is basically the same.

 

However, Mars and Udina are best seen from the perspective of a military associate or something, so I approached it that way and just spacebar through the former scenes.

 

I do get the amount of work involved, but if you have these your games, is it really that much harder to make a couple of different lines, it's not like they lined up the character mouth movement with their actual dialogue or anything. Bioware dropped it hard in both of those scenes, also Mars and Udina, because none of the four, other than maybe Mars really account for your previous relationships status.

 

However, let's presume Kaidan or Ash was your LI, Horizon leads nicely to Mars and the Hospital. However, I would not tolerate the mistrust shown on Horizon anyway, every single other companion chooses to trust you, your LI chooses not to. Horizon totally justifies a change in LI in my opinion, and then Mars makes sense but the Hospital only kind of does.

 

Wow, I have no idea what I just typed. I hope it makes sense.

[themikefest]

But to get to Fist you need either Garrus or Wrex, one of the two right?

Yes. One of them has to recruited.

[iM3GTR]

Can't you find Garrus and not let him join the crew? Or is that only if you already have Wrex?