188 réponses à ce sujet

[Vanilka]

There should be some interaction between Ashley and Tali over the com when you finish the Tuchanka Bomb mission after Rannoch. Tali has to be in the Engineering. They talk about Virmire, I think. Same should happen if you have Kaidan instead. (Tali should also have an interesting interaction with EDI if taken to the Turian Platoon mission, if I'm not mistaken.) Haven't tried this set-up yet myself, so I don't know the details.

[themikefest]

After completing the Turian bomb mission, Ashley is seen standing by the memorial wall where she mentions Kaidan whereas Kaidan will not be seen by the wall after the bomb mission

 

If Kaidan is onboard the ship, he and Vega will be seen playing cards after Rannoch

[Ashii6]

For this one scene with Ashley, I always wait for her to comeback and then I do the bomb mission.
Tho I wish I could have both Ash and Kaidan with me. I liked that not everyone survived ME1, but... kinda disappointed I had to leave Kaidan there. I'd very much prefer to leave Liara or Garrus on Virmire.

[themikefest]

 I'd very much prefer to leave Liara or Garrus on Virmire.

I don't see a problem with that.

 

If anything I would've left one of the salarians with the bomb since they're the ones that came up with the idea

[Vanilka]

I admit I kind of like the drama of having to make the choice on Virmire. I was really heartbroken over losing Ashley the first time around and it made for an interesting bump on the road. Well, at least for me. I guess it also reminded me that stuff was getting dead serious. (I'm a horrible person. I apologise.) On the other hand, I'd totally welcome it if we could leave any squadmate behind. Or save both Ashley and Kaidan. Or perhaps even loose both if we did a really "lame" playthrough.
I also thought it might be worth to split into two teams. Shepard could go one way to save Kaidan/Ashley, because Shep can fight for ten, and the other two squaddies would go get the other one. The one with the nuke would have to be ordered to wait a bit, thus perhaps endangering the mission (which might end well or badly depending on previous decisions). If more squadmates were recruited, maybe they could also lift their asses. Would be much appreciated. Not saying it's a good plan. Just an idea.

 

I still don't know how Kirrahe got on the Normandy and Ash didn't. I knew I shouldn't lend him my people. 

[iM3GTR]

@Ashii6:

 

Don't you dare say that about Garrus! Garrus is the best: Ashley and Kaidan should bow down and grovel at his feet.

[Ashii6]

@Ashii6:

 

Don't you dare say that about Garrus! Garrus is the best: Ashley and Kaidan should bow down and grovel at his feet.

Honestly. I never liked Garrus and through ME2 and ME3 he's even more annoying, so I would gladly sacrificed this space cockroach first.

[Vanilka]

Not a huge fan of Garrus myself. I mean, I do like him and think he's a pretty great character, but he's never grown on me as the game obviously wanted him to. I don't know about Ashley, considering the whole trilogy, but having to pick between Garrus and Kaidan wouldn't give me pause if I chose based on who I find more interesting. Should I choose based on my ME1 experience alone and if I could, yeah, Garrus would likely be the one that'd get left on Virmire. Not because I dislike him and want to kill him off, not because I think he's no good in what he does. But because he barely talks in ME1 and that makes him less interesting and close for me, while Kaidan and Ashley have so much to say in comparison and I feel like I really get to know them. (I couldn't even force a reaction to Lorik Qui'in's talk about Benezia out of Garrus no matter the companion set up. Everybody else has some.) In ME2, he still barely talks (The game wants us to be bros, Garrus. Freaking talk to me!) and his character development from ME1 gets thrown out of the airlock. (I led him to be more by the book. He acknowledged this development. He thanked me for learning what he did. And yet Shepard wakes up two years later to him being the same ruthless person he was at the beginning of ME1. I'm not arguing about whether he was right in doing so or not or whether it's decent development, but about why I even have the option to help him go that way in ME1, which was basically most of his interaction with Shepard on the Normandy, if it gets nothing but discarded. Ignoring the player's decisions seems to be a common thing with Garrus, though.) In ME2 and ME3, he's one of my least used companions. Not intentionally, to be honest. I just end up picking others more for their abilities and dialogues, I guess.

 

I respect other people feel otherwise, of course. They probably see much more than I do. And each to their own, right? But, as far as I am concerned, it took ME3 and the Citadel DLC for me to understand why Garrus was popular. And I've never understood why so many people dislike Kaidan or Ashley so much, but Garrus, who doesn't even talk all that much most of the trilogy and who can be really mean and ruthless, gets thumbs up pretty much universally no matter what.

[Natureguy85]

Personally, I never view Ashley as racist and that is never the reason why I choose Kaidan over her. At best, she is ignorant but I get that her resentment was based on how she was being labelled as an 'alien sympathizer' in her entire life and in ME verse, humanity are still diverged about the alien issues (remember how popular Cerberus become and how many people willingly kill themselves for their cause) and people like Ashley are common... even Miranda and Jacob was distrusting with some of the alien crews you pick up and they merely view them as "asset to the team" rather than as people and they hardly interact with each other either.

 

For me, Garrus always struck me as the most bigoted of the crew, even more so than Ash. And yet, he never get labelled as a racist even though he is the one who is okay with genocide and the extinction of two species because they dared to defy the council. Everyone love to ignore how he aggravate Wrex purposely about how his people deserve the genophage TWICE and then later with Tali about how her people deserve being outcast and dying because they created the Geth. Then in ME3, he even whispered that he would take the Dalatrass deal if it wasn't his people that needed their help. Wrex is supposedly his buddy and if he had the chance, he would betray him because of his prejudice. I'm quite uncertain about why people would think a random comment about wondering if Keepers are aliens or animals as racist when we already have someone who justify the genocide of two species because they screwed up several hundreds years ago. Tolerance to genocide of any race is abhorrent and undeniably racist and is very real.

 

But its good that the writers did include them^ in the beginning but it was frustrating that this was being gloss over in the later installments because the character became favourites and they need people to buy they game. I don't think that was wrong for them but come on.. wouldn't it be nice if Garrus actually have a special scene at the Shroud, say the Dalatrass contacted him and he was the one who wanted to kill Mordin and Shepard had to guilt him out or let him or kill him. Potential drama....

 

The difference may be that Garrus' comments come in random elevator conversation that requires both characters to be present where Ashley's comments are in the private conversations with her that you hear every playthrough unless you never talk to her.

 

Yeah, from what I hear, Kaidan has slightly more content than Ash, plus, he roams around the ship and talk with other people. It's sad that Ash was so ditched in ME3... I was so excited for her to come back and after that, I was little disappointed by her lack of content. But either way, I'd never kill her on Virimire or send her to Hackett. She's my DudeShep LI and my FemShep BFF.

 

It was a very strange design decision to give you the Virmire survivor back only to almost immediately take them away again for half the game.

[Ashii6]

@NatureGuy85: It pissed me off completely, but I think it happened, because not everyone had the same VS in their game and BW had to share resources, but still... Kaidan has a bit more content than Ash. Her comments after mission sometimes include a sentence with 3 or 4 words.
*Sigh* I wish Chris L'etoile was still in BW during ME3.

[Natureguy85]

@NatureGuy85: It pissed me off completely, but I think it happened, because not everyone had the same VS in their game and BW had to share resources, but still... Kaidan has a bit more content than Ash. Her comments after mission sometimes include a sentence with 3 or 4 words.
*Sigh* I wish Chris L'etoile was still in BW during ME3.

 

That didn't stop them from making content for both Kaidan and Ashley post Virmire though.

[Vanilka]

The difference may be that Garrus' comments come in random elevator conversation that requires both characters to be present where Ashley's comments are in the private conversations with her that you hear every playthrough unless you never talk to her.

 
That's true. Good point. Even I haven't heard all of the elevator banters and I deliberately drag my companions through the elevators a lot with the intention to hear them.
 

It was a very strange design decision to give you the Virmire survivor back only to almost immediately take them away again for half the game.

 

Indeed. It is disappointing. I also think it's not exactly an example of great writing. They try to push the player for an emotional reaction by hurting a character that they haven't seen for an entire game (People who started with ME2 or ME3 have no damn idea who these people are.) and might have stopped caring about (which can make Shepard's strong emotional reaction to their injury really jarring. Not to even mention when Shep is a renegade hardass). For me, the Mars mission is a great re-bonding moment with a character I like a lot so it works, but I can't imagine that's the case for people that feel that the Virmire Survivor betrayed/abandoned them in ME2, that stopped caring because the VS is barely present in that game, or that didn't care for them much in ME1 in the first place. 
 

[Natureguy85]

 
That's true. Good point. Even I haven't heard all of the elevator banters and I deliberately drag my companions through the elevators a lot with the intention to hear them.
 

 

Indeed. It is disappointing. I also think it's not exactly an example of great writing. They try to push the player for an emotional reaction by hurting a character that they haven't seen for an entire game (People who started with ME2 or ME3 have no damn idea who these people are.) and might have stopped caring about (which can make Shepard's strong emotional reaction to their injury really jarring. Not to even mention when Shep is a renegade hardass). For me, the Mars mission is a great re-bonding moment with a character I like a lot so it works, but I can't imagine that's the case for people that feel that the Virmire Survivor betrayed/abandoned them in ME2, that stopped caring because the VS is barely present in that game, or that didn't care for them much in ME1 in the first place. 
 

 

Yeah, it makes those rather boring news reports really annoying when you'd rather be hearing your characters talk!

 

I'd go a step further. Ashley got on my nerves with her lack of trust again so when she gets hurt, it would be very easy to think "well, you were a jerk anyway." It did set up the bonding and relationship repairing moments in the Hospital, but I don't know why they didn't give you at least a bit more time with the VS.

 

Actually I just realized; they are placeholder companions until you get Liara and then they let James get back in. The VS is the Daveth/Jory or Mairi from Dragon Age Origins and Awakening, respectively. You just happen to get them back later.

[Vanilka]

Yeah, it makes those rather boring news reports really annoying when you'd rather be hearing your characters talk!

 

I'd go a step further. Ashley got on my nerves with her lack of trust again so when she gets hurt, it would be very easy to think "well, you were a jerk anyway." It did set up the bonding and relationship repairing moments in the Hospital, but I don't know why they didn't give you at least a bit more time with the VS.

 

Actually I just realized; they are placeholder companions until you get Liara and then they let James get back in. The VS is the Daveth/Jory or Mairi from Dragon Age Origins and Awakening, respectively. You just happen to get them back later.

 

True. ME2 and ME3 tend to keep making the mistake of trying to insert drama at the very beginning of the game without proper build-up and it doesn't quite work. (Compare with Virmire that you can start no sooner than in the middle of the game. Compare with Mordin's death in ME3.) It would be much more powerful if they hurt a character that'd been with you for some time and that you already had a good relationship with. And, as you say, it doesn't help the Virmire Survivor can seem like they pester you on Mars which can easily make some people go, "Whatever," when they finally get hurt.

 

Daveth and Mhairi were pretty awesome, though. They'd make excellent Wardens and companions, damnit. But that's beside the point. You're right. Now that you mention it... ugh, now I'm even more upset.

[aoibhealfae]

I never actually see Ashley being downright mean to them other than being jealous over Liara. Even with Renegade-Kaidan, he ranted about how plain useless the council are (Yes! So much for him being 'diplomatic') but even in his rants about the aliens, he never said they deserve to be eradicated to extinction, he just said that humanity need to be stronger and more self-asserting and independent which is similar to Ash's rants. I still have the conversation with Ashley about wanting Shepard to be wary of the aliens but I also find that her attitude was less about the aliens. I do hear the desperation when she said she was entitled to be the way she was because she need to be strong for herself and her family legacy. 

 

And honestly the council race (Asari, Turian, Salarian) did act like a d1ck to everyone, they do think they're superior because they're older and more powerful and they do think humanity like an infestation to the galaxy (similar to the Batarians). Even in ambient dialogue not everyone in the Citadel embrace humanity and are just as wary as Ashley. To me, Garrus seems to suffer from first world problems and I understand that his background shaped his views about the world which is similar to everyone else at Citadel and it shaped his ways of handling things since he only sees the rules and restriction and he admired humanity's tenacity (and I suppose I get why that was appealing to a lot of people... still, not my place to judge). Since he is an optional ME1 character and there's hardly much interaction with him anyway so I choose the elevator conversation and the conversation by the Krogan statue as a canon, even if hardly anyone saw the exchanges. 

[Whitering]

Garrus and Edi are my two favourite gameplay companions though, particularly in ME3 where the companion selection is a little grim for most of the game, tech explosions all over the place. I guess if I was playing an adept instead of infiltrator I might have different companions. Edi is not pleased that I killed the Geth, but thankfully Joker mentions that the Geth have a poor track record when dealing with the Reapers. I wasn't going to give Reaper code to the Illusive man either Edi, shut up, I take you on every mission.

[themikefest]

It was a very strange design decision to give you the Virmire survivor back only to almost immediately take them away again for half the game.

And then have the opportunity to shoot them during the coup. I never agreed with them having Ashley/Kaidan injured on Mars

 

My thoughts about that is like this. Vega was put in ME3 for new players. He's human. So why have another human if Vega is for new players.  The other thing is you have Liara, Garrus and later the edibot. So with those 4, the new player can become familiar with those characters.

 

When you get to Sur'Kesh, and Kirrahe is alive, Garrus and Liara will have dialogue with him and if Wrex is alive, they, along with Shepard will have dialogue. The problem with that is Ashley.Kaidan, and Tali are the only ones guaranteed to meet Kirrahe. The others aren't. Why did Bioware give them dialogue when meeting Kirrahe if they never did? I would like to hear the dialogue from Ashley/Kaidan and Tali if they were able to be on Sur"Kesh. The other thing is Garrus may never of met Wrex depending on the playthrough, but yet they talk with each other like they're buddies.

 

When facing Ashley/Kaidan during the coup, no one  speaks  up for Shepard. Had that been done, it may of made it easier for Ashley/Kaidan to stand down. But the whole standoff was crap. The so called squadmates don't say anything when Udina accuses Shepard of still working with Cerberus, but yet they have no problem shooting Ashley/Kaidan and Ashley/Kaidan not realizing that they don't stand a chance against the three of them if gunfire were to happen. Had Kai Leng and the sword girls showed up, the council and Ashley/Kaidan would be dead.

[Ashii6]

This whole coup thing was pure bullshit. How could one teammate shoot another without a second thought? And why kill them, not just neutralize them? This is even worse. Every squadmate (maybe except for Vega) has at least one skill that could neutralize Udina/VS without killing them, but no, BioWare wanted more drama and more reason to hate Ash/Kai. ( I guess trained soldiers like Ash/Kaidan don't even use kinetic shields... )
In my opinion, VS' problem with mistrust towards Shepard was way overused. BioWare really couldn't understand when to back off with it.
Of course, it's really easy to make then stand down during the coup, even without paragon/renegade persuasion or even interrupt, but still... the whole situation is both silly and stupid.

[themikefest]

One thing I forgot to mention is that the player has the choice to send Ashley/Kaidan to Hackett for 25 assets. What exactly are they going to do? Its surprising those two can be sent to Hackett and not Liara. She would be more use to Hackett and the crucilbe project than Ashley/Kaidan.

 

If they are sent to Hackett, the player doesn't get a holobye in London from them. Just some email. Its been a long time since I did that, so I might be wrong.

[Ashii6]

One thing I forgot to mention is that the player has the choice to send Ashley/Kaidan to Hackett for 25 assets. What exactly are they going to do? Its surprising those two can be sent to Hackett and not Liara. She would be more use to Hackett and the crucilbe project than Ashley/Kaidan.

 

If they are sent to Hackett, the player doesn't get a holobye in London from them. Just some email. Its been a long time since I did that, so I might be wrong.

She can't be killed or send anywhere, because she's one of the writers fav pet.

[themikefest]

She can't be killed or send anywhere, because she's one of the writers fav pet.

She can be killed. I just have Harbinger kill her.

[Ashii6]

She can be killed. I just have Harbinger kill her.

Well, yes, but can you kill her before like any other squadmate in any game? Nope.

[themikefest]

Well, yes, but can you kill her before like any other squadmate in any game? Nope.

True. The only way to have her killed is to have your ems below 2000 and take her on the beam run or have ems below 1750 and destroy being the only ending to choose which causes the door to the Normandy not to open believing everyone onboard is dead or just pick refuse

[aoibhealfae]

The other thing is Garrus may never of met Wrex depending on the playthrough, but yet they talk with each other like they're buddies.

 

ah.. kinda wish there's a different dialogue for this

[Natureguy85]

True. ME2 and ME3 tend to keep making the mistake of trying to insert drama at the very beginning of the game without proper build-up and it doesn't quite work. (Compare with Virmire that you can start no sooner than in the middle of the game. Compare with Mordin's death in ME3.) It would be much more powerful if they hurt a character that'd been with you for some time and that you already had a good relationship with. And, as you say, it doesn't help the Virmire Survivor can seem like they pester you on Mars which can easily make some people go, "Whatever," when they finally get hurt.

 

Daveth and Mhairi were pretty awesome, though. They'd make excellent Wardens and companions, damnit. But that's beside the point. You're right. Now that you mention it... ugh, now I'm even more upset.

 

I wasn't totally familiar with the concept of "placeholder squadmembers" at the time, but Daveth is how I knew Mairi was going to die as soon as she said she hadn't taken her Joining yet. He was the one willing to take the risk and he died. Likewise, Mairi was excited to be a Grey Warden.