35 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Yes. And no.
Yes, it is not about creating a large army to protect the world. And that part was awesome, the part where the game was a lot more personal, which made Trespasser be 10.000 times better than the rest of Inquisition.

But also, no, the mechanics were the same, managing mages and templars was very much like balancing Krogans and Salarians. There was the whole doing favors for the parts and getting to know them through quests and stuff. This "mechanic" should change, for good. But well, yeah, if you ask me to choose the focus of the story DA2 is by far the best DA game. Also when comaring to ME and ME3, ME2 seems more personal, but still, as I said about DA2, even when the story is more personal Bioware repeats the way they work quests.

 

Huh?

 

Weren't you the one to go

 

So please, quit changing good things (battle systems with stats) and start creating new things for characters and plots. You are not disguising your complete lack of creativity good enough.

 

 

Are the mechanics the problem or not?

 

You started by claiming the plots and characters needed to change, and not the mechanics- and DA2 gets about as far from the standard Bioware archetypes as we can get. It's not a save-the-world plot, or gathering the macguffins, or building alliances and armies for the tide of evil over yonder. It's also got some of the more unique characters Bioware's taken, about as far from their normal archetypes as you can get without running into the wall that everything can be pushed into an achetype. We lack 'the grizzled veteran with war stories' archetype, or the 'feminine theif with heart of gold' or 'the knight in sour armor.' We even ditched the adorkable knightly male love interest.

 

But you also claim that the mechanics are themselves the issue- and uncreative- even though it's rather hard to think of any mechanics (narrative or gameplay) that would actually be 'original' or 'creative.' Narrative tropes have been playing as long as narrative fiction- and gameplay mechanics require being structured in a balanced way regardless, at least if you want gameplay to be an important metric.

 

 

It is like animes, all animes talk about how important is to have friends, the power of friendship, from Goku's Genki Dama to Saint Seiya Omega and everything in between. Bioware is like an adult version of this. But both are obvious and explored to exaustion. All children know we should have friends, all adults know alliances are the only way to do anything at all. But how these things are inside the game don't always need to be the same. You don't always have to build a party in the same way (or the same 2 ways, either you are powerful and recruit or a bunch of underdogs with something to unite). Ok, these two are good, but after 3.000.000.000.000 games about it, change for makers sake!

 

 

If you think all anime talk about the same things, I recommend you set pout of the shounen genre and relook anime in general.

 

 

 

 

I have time to play all the games since the first bits came to live until the day I die, and probably make multiple playthroughs of all of them at the same time. I did like 40+ DAO playthroughs (with all dlc, expansion, etc). I don't need to work or spend time with humans, so since, I guess, October 2014, I'm just home playing games forever.

 

 

 

Sounds like the real issue isn't Bioware's lack of creativity or experimentation- but you playing the same few games over and over and over and expecting them to change each time.

 

Might I suggest going outside and buying different games?

[Ieldra]

Sorry bud, Lavoisier beat you to it by a few centuries, and he was much more succint in his explanation:
 
"Rien ne se perd, rien ne se crée, tout se transforme" (nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed).
 
Without going into a creative debate, just want to point out that any creative idea you have, its simply a transformation or different point of view of something else you saw, or heard or experienced. Creative writing is no different. What makes something stand out, is the way its presented, not its originality.

Very true. However, I'd like to point out that this is not a valid rebuttal of the criticism "Bioware never changes anything" (disregarding the question of whether this is true). It would be a valid rebuttal only if Bioware had already exhausted the existing variety of basic plot structures feasible for the medium and the genre. Assuming they wanted to do things in a significantly different way in one of their next games, while it could not hope to be truly original, it could still be different from what they made in the past.

[Dean_the_Young]

Very true. However, I'd like to point out that this is not a valid rebuttal of the criticism "Bioware never changes anything" (disregarding the question of whether this is true). It would be a valid rebuttal only if Bioware had already exhausted the existing variety of basic plot structures feasible for the medium and the genre. Assuming they wanted to do things in a significantly different way in one of their next games, while it could not hope to be truly original, it could still be different from what they made in the past.

 

The pedantic part of me just wishes that posters would align these rants with 'I want Bioware to use less common tropes' rather than 'I want Bioware to be original and creative because they're lazy.'

[Donk]

The pedantic part of me just wishes that posters would align these rants with 'I want Bioware to use less common tropes' rather than 'I want Bioware to be original and creative because they're lazy.'

I don't think this particular ranter really cares what they are ranting about. They have bragged about putting their full focus into hating BioWare games. Accounts banned, etc.

[Andraste_Reborn]

I don't need to work or spend time with humans, so since, I guess, October 2014, I'm just home playing games forever.

 

Speaking as one unemployable shut-in to another: you need a hobby that makes you less miserable.

 

(I mean, at least when I'm having a bout of playing Dragon Age ten hours a day, it's because it makes me happier.)

[Erstus]

I'm 30 yrs old and I really can't stand the old diatribe of "Save the World" anymore.

Maybe I've grown too old to enjoy this kind of entertainment. Or maybe companies think adult video games are games+sex+violence, with no change in the overall plot whatsoever.

Agreed.

I loved the Witcher 1 & 2 because of that. Those stories were more personal and smaller in scale compared to the events taking place on the world stage.

Being clichéd Hero and Saviour of the world protagonist really turns me off from games now.

BUT, in regards to the OP - Bioware lacks creativity? I could not disagree more

[BansheeOwnage]

Bioware's games have always been Strictly Formula (read the article to see why this is not necessarily a bad thing), and for good or ill, their fans, as a rule, like it that way, and attempts to change things, as in DA2 or in ME3's ending, get a controversial reception at best.

 

Having said that, I think DA2 would've been received much better if not for its other flaws, and if at Bioware they think that the mixed reception was mainly due to the changed plot structure, they're drawing a wrong conclusion. I hope they're not too afraid to make experiments again, but after DA2 and ME3 they really needed something that just works. And DAI did work rather well, overall.

 

BTW, you're overstating your case, OP.

People on here seem to love DA2's changed formula. I don't think that was the problem with it at all. As for ME3... that issue goes a lot deeper than changing a formula.

[BansheeOwnage]

Speaking as one unemployable shut-in to another: you need a hobby that makes you less miserable.

 

(I mean, at least when I'm having a bout of playing Dragon Age ten hours a day, it's because it makes me happier.)

It sounded like it did make them happier. But I don't know.

[ArianaGBSA]

Huh?

 

Weren't you the one to go

 

Are the mechanics the problem or not?

 

You started by claiming the plots and characters needed to change, and not the mechanics- and DA2 gets about as far from the standard Bioware archetypes as we can get. It's not a save-the-world plot, or gathering the macguffins, or building alliances and armies for the tide of evil over yonder. It's also got some of the more unique characters Bioware's taken, about as far from their normal archetypes as you can get without running into the wall that everything can be pushed into an achetype. We lack 'the grizzled veteran with war stories' archetype, or the 'feminine theif with heart of gold' or 'the knight in sour armor.' We even ditched the adorkable knightly male love interest.

 

But you also claim that the mechanics are themselves the issue- and uncreative- even though it's rather hard to think of any mechanics (narrative or gameplay) that would actually be 'original' or 'creative.' Narrative tropes have been playing as long as narrative fiction- and gameplay mechanics require being structured in a balanced way regardless, at least if you want gameplay to be an important metric.

 

 

If you think all anime talk about the same things, I recommend you set pout of the shounen genre and relook anime in general.

 

 

 

 

Sounds like the real issue isn't Bioware's lack of creativity or experimentation- but you playing the same few games over and over and over and expecting them to change each time.

 

Might I suggest going outside and buying different games?

By mechanics I meant D&D mechanics, turn based combat, feats and skills. Everything else is crap and have to change too.

At anime, of course I know it is not what all anime are about, as I know that nothing applies to all anything. Not all men. Not all pop music. Not all action movie. And so on. Of course when someone says "all X are about" the person means most of the popular mainstream.

I was hugely misinterpreted, but it is 100% my fault. I have absolutely nothing against lack of creativity, only when it gives birth to abominations like DAI. I absolutely love lack of creativity, if all games were NWN2 with different stories, or even just updated graphics I wouldn't complain at all. In fact, if DAO series were DAO1,2,3,4,5,6,7..9999 this forum wouldn't see me complaining about anything. So it is not that I hate lack of creativity, it is that it makes me hate an awful game even more, if the game was good it would make no diference at all.

But the thing is that they are changing what was good (turn based, slow, tactical, heavy stat based combat) and leaving what is awful (same characters, plots, struggles, etc). And since obvious here seems to not be obvious, it is my opinion.
 

Sorry bud, Lavoisier beat you to it by a few centuries, and he was much more succint in his explanation:

 

"Rien ne se perd, rien ne se crée, tout se transforme" (nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed).

 

Without going into a creative debate, just want to point out that any creative idea you have, its simply a transformation or different point of view of something else you saw, or heard or experienced. Creative writing is no different. What makes something stand out, is the way its presented, not its originality.

Obvious thing is obvious right? As I just said above the creativity crap was just an excuse.
But of course when I'm talking about "creativity" I'm talking about "do something that less people do and not something that most people do", I thought tha much was obvious because in like 99% of the time someone says creativity it is about it. Like music, movies, etc. It is never really about creating something new because as you pointed it is obviously impossible, mechanically impossible, logically impossible.
 

 

Speaking as one unemployable shut-in to another: you need a hobby that makes you less miserable.

 

(I mean, at least when I'm having a bout of playing Dragon Age ten hours a day, it's because it makes me happier.)

There is nothing in the world that makes me happy but some things makes me less miserable, like hating and complaining. Currently we have no technology to provide me with what I need, maybe in a hundred years? The solution to other humans for when you want something impossible don't work for me, love, sex, acceptance, support, and other things that represent someone caring for you either a partner, family or friends do not affect me in any way. Do not ease my pain.

Games help me to ignore existence. But hate helps me a lot more. I post here because Bioware really irritates me but I am 100% aware it is not their fault, I know it is not their fault that I choose an impossible meaning for my life and that their games can't provide me with what I want and/or need. But I don't believe in being reasonable, I feel what I feel and act according to my feelings not to my understanding. And hatred soothes my pain other feelings don't, so that's it.

And one last thing, that probably is hard for you to understand but being happy for me is like being miserable for other people. Being happy for me would be like surrendering, it would be like I agreed on how existence works, and I don't so as I said in another post my life is a childish constant tantrum. This unfortunately includes this forum... but I know I'm wrong and stuff, I know all I do is stupid, pointless, childish, etc, but since nothing matters anymore... that's it.

My presence in this forum is a fault (that I hoped mods fixed by now) of letting me create more and more accounts. A lot of forums ban me succesfully with IP ban (I taint everywhere I go), why the hell bio forums don't have it? I will never understand... but I would have no problem with it, I know it must be done, people here don't deserve to read posts like the ones I do, specialy because when I get banned my new account is not in people ignore list. I need to be purged from here, so hey mods, it is about time right?

[BSpud]

I used to enjoy dicking with you because I thought you were just saying nutty, extreme **** just to provoke people, but now that I realize you're most likely for real, your posts bum me out. Your life doesn't have to be this way. Talk to a mental health professional, dude. Please. You don't deserve to be tortured by something as capricious as not getting x chemical in y part of your brain in z amount.

[Donk]

By mechanics I meant D&D mechanics, turn based combat, feats and skills. Everything else is crap and have to change too.

At anime, of course I know it is not what all anime are about, as I know that nothing applies to all anything. Not all men. Not all pop music. Not all action movie. And so on. Of course when someone says "all X are about" the person means most of the popular mainstream.

I was hugely misinterpreted, but it is 100% my fault. I have absolutely nothing against lack of creativity, only when it gives birth to abominations like DAI. I absolutely love lack of creativity, if all games were NWN2 with different stories, or even just updated graphics I wouldn't complain at all. In fact, if DAO series were DAO1,2,3,4,5,6,7..9999 this forum wouldn't see me complaining about anything. So it is not that I hate lack of creativity, it is that it makes me hate an awful game even more, if the game was good it would make no diference at all.

But the thing is that they are changing what was good (turn based, slow, tactical, heavy stat based combat) and leaving what is awful (same characters, plots, struggles, etc). And since obvious here seems to not be obvious, it is my opinion.
 

Obvious thing is obvious right? As I just said above the creativity crap was just an excuse.
But of course when I'm talking about "creativity" I'm talking about "do something that less people do and not something that most people do", I thought tha much was obvious because in like 99% of the time someone says creativity it is about it. Like music, movies, etc. It is never really about creating something new because as you pointed it is obviously impossible, mechanically impossible, logically impossible.
 

 

There is nothing in the world that makes me happy but some things makes me less miserable, like hating and complaining. Currently we have no technology to provide me with what I need, maybe in a hundred years? The solution to other humans for when you want something impossible don't work for me, love, sex, acceptance, support, and other things that represent someone caring for you either a partner, family or friends do not affect me in any way. Do not ease my pain.

Games help me to ignore existence. But hate helps me a lot more. I post here because Bioware really irritates me but I am 100% aware it is not their fault, I know it is not their fault that I choose an impossible meaning for my life and that their games can't provide me with what I want and/or need. But I don't believe in being reasonable, I feel what I feel and act according to my feelings not to my understanding. And hatred soothes my pain other feelings don't, so that's it.

And one last thing, that probably is hard for you to understand but being happy for me is like being miserable for other people. Being happy for me would be like surrendering, it would be like I agreed on how existence works, and I don't so as I said in another post my life is a childish constant tantrum. This unfortunately includes this forum... but I know I'm wrong and stuff, I know all I do is stupid, pointless, childish, etc, but since nothing matters anymore... that's it.

My presence in this forum is a fault (that I hoped mods fixed by now) of letting me create more and more accounts. A lot of forums ban me succesfully with IP ban (I taint everywhere I go), why the hell bio forums don't have it? I will never understand... but I would have no problem with it, I know it must be done, people here don't deserve to read posts like the ones I do, specialy because when I get banned my new account is not in people ignore list. I need to be purged from here, so hey mods, it is about time right?

 

Speaking from one nutjob to another.. I know hatred can be addictive.. and fun. But there comes a point when it is no longer fun any more. When that time occurs, it's time to move on.

 

You could play other games that you would hate! I mean.. doesn't this get old? New experiences can be fun.

 

I would like to recommend to you.. The Witcher. You could get away with skipping the first two installments and start on TW3 (man, would THAT game p*ss you off to no end..) but to make the hate more intense, you could play the first two. I can absolutely guarantee that you will hate it so much you will think the sun shines out of BW's backside.

 

Pure action hack and slash dressed up as an RPG. No character creation, you gotta play as hunk of man meat Geralt. You HAVE to use a sword, coupled with brewing potions and oils to take out monsters. YOU WILL RAGE. IT WILL FEEL GOOD. The backdrop to this game is a fantasy world filled with lore and so much potential for paper and pen D and D goodness you will want to cry and use the tears as lube!

 

And then.. and then you can join the CDPR forums. AND COMPLAIN!! And a new set of fans will hate on you, and it will be fun.

 

Think about it, eh?

 

Oh and a little advice.. when it comes to trolling, never be honest. I mean, honesty works sometimes.. depending on circumstances. But telling everybody your motives kinda kills the appeal of trolling.