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[Meredydd]

This is just a list of similarities I have noticed between the civilizations of Thedas and real world religions. I'm not arguing that these groups are solely based off these religions, however the similarities are undeniable.

 

The Elves were influenced by the Jewish peoples. Both:

1. Are composed of various different clans/houses
2. Were driven away from their original homeland
3. Are persecuted, either for their race or their religion
4. Have lived quartered off areas e.g. Alienages, Camps (Nazi Germany), the old Jewish quarter in Jerusalem
5. Are or have been nomadic
6. Refuse to worship Andraste/Jesus

Qunari religion/ideology were influenced by Islam. Both:

1. Seek to indoctrinate through various means
2. Believe that the entire world should be subjugated under their law (the Qun/Sharia Law) 
3. Invade other civilizations with the sole intent to spread their ideology/religion e.g. Jihad and Qunari invasions of Tevinter (similar to Muslim invasions of Byzantium) 
4. Share the belief of submission to and observation of the law without question
5. Share aspects of martyrdom e.g. Saarebas from DA2 committing suicide
6. Share the belief in a prophet i.e. Mohammed and Koslun
7. Share sacred writings from those prophets i.e. the Tome of Koslun and the Qur'an
8. Easily misunderstood by outsiders

The human civilizations are (obviously) based off of medieval Christianity, particular Roman Catholicism (not so much Protestantism). However, the Tevinter Chantry is more similar to Eastern Orthodoxy. Both:

1. Share the belief in a savior and disciples
2. Share belief in one supreme being i.e. Maker/God
3. Share a similar church hierarchy with a divine representative at the top
4. Have called for Holy Wars and Inquisitions
5. Have a holy book i.e. the Chant of Light/The Bible
6. Have similar duties e.g. running orphanages and charities
7. Have chastity laws for clergy members
8. The list of similarities goes on forever with this one

I haven't found anything for the dwarves really. They are similar to the old pagan religions in terms of ancestor and earth reverence, but no striking similarities have come up. 

[QueenCrow]

Very interesting post.  If you don't mind, I'd like to add a few thoughts.

 

Elves:

 

The Klezmer-like music encountered in the alienage in Origins suggested to me that the City Elves were based, at least in part, on Jewish people.  Perhaps that auditory direction was intended and perhaps not.  At some point, it seems as if Dragon Age Elves shifted toward Celtic culture - or is the differentiation between city Elves and Dalish?  Regardless, I started thinking of the Elves as Celt-like and the extinction of Arlathan perhaps something like the extinction, or movement of people, as with the Celtic Hallstatt or Le Tene cultures.

 

Qunari:

 

Every single point you've listed applies to Christianity as well.

1. Indoctrination, evangelism, inquisition, crusade.

2. Nations, even those with intended separation of church and state, still debate civil laws that have foundation in the Bible.

3. Crusade again, or the Old World colonization of the New World with the intent of spreading God's word/Catholicism to heathen savages.

4. Apostasy and Heresy has been historically punishable by death or mutilation in Christian history.

5. Martyrdom has always been a part of Christian tradition. 

6. Judeo-Christian tradition has both prophets and the Bible.

7. Sermons, Bibles, Books of Mormon, Watchtower pamphlets, etc, have been and are still shared.

8. Christianity can also be easily misunderstood by outsiders. (My favorite line from the movie Gandhi - "I have a Christian friend.  She drinks blood.  Blood of Christ."

 

Humans:

 

It seems obvious that the Chantry is based upon Christianity as you've said, most notably on Roman Catholicism.  I think, however, that the Chantry (at least the Southern Chantry) departs from traditional Roman Catholicism in that the Divine is female.  Andraste is female.  Gender roles in Roman Catholicism have been largely patriarchal and female subordination is attributed to a female being responsible for original sin and expulsion from paradise/Eden (at least as it was explained to me).  Female pope and female messiah may be considered blasphemous and the Southern Chantry is an intentional departure from Catholicism, Orthodoxy, etc.  I'm unsure.  Perhaps someone with a more firm knowledge of Roman Catholicism can enlighten more on views of women as pope, priests, and martyred savior.

 

Thank you for the post.  It's thought-provoking.

 

P.S.  Where do you think the Dwarves fit in to real world religious parallels?

[Wulfram]

As far as I can see the Qunari are communists. Not particularly Marxist communists, but still broadly communists. With a fair bit of dystopia ala Brave New World or 1984 and a dash of mysticism mixed in.

They're Muslims only in the sense that they stand opposed to medieval christianity analogues, and will probably blow up Constantinople/Minrathous' walls with cannon at some point.

I'd consider the female clergy in the southern Chantry a mirroring of Catholicism. In a sense its the opposite, but it still leaves the clergy a single gender, celibate order very like Catholicism. The male "original sin" would I suppose be the betrayal of Maferath which caused the Maker to turn from humanity, though this doesn't seem to have any effect outside of the church sonce Thedosian society still seems to tend towards the patriarchal.

[Steelcan]

As far as I can see the Qunari are communists. Not particularly Marxist communists, but still broadly communists. With a fair bit of dystopia ala Brave New World or 1984 and a dash of mysticism mixed in.
 

Communists who aren't Marxists...

 

about that....

[Former_Fiend]

As far as I can see the Qunari are communists. Not particularly Marxist communists, but still broadly communists. With a fair bit of dystopia ala Brave New World or 1984 and a dash of mysticism mixed in.

They're Muslims only in the sense that they stand opposed to medieval christianity analogues, and will probably blow up Constantinople/Minrathous' walls with cannon at some point.

I'd consider the female clergy in the southern Chantry a mirroring of Catholicism. In a sense its the opposite, but it still leaves the clergy a single gender, celibate order very like Catholicism. The male "original sin" would I suppose be the betrayal of Maferath which caused the Maker to turn from humanity, though this doesn't seem to have any effect outside of the church sonce Thedosian society still seems to tend towards the patriarchal.

 

The "original sin" parallel would definitely be the Magisters breaching the Golden City, with the Old Gods playing the part of the Serpent. 

 

Maferath is an obvious Judas parallel. 

 

As for the Qunari, you're right on the money about their primary Islamic parallel being an expansionistic alien culture in opposition to the European/Christian Thedas, along with some bits about a higher standard of cleanliness and education. And they are communists. But aside from that their actual belief system is more in line with Taoist/Confucianist philosophy.

[Wulfram]

Communists who aren't Marxists...
 
about that....

Communism and Marxism are not synonymous, even if I believe Marx did coin the term. For example you've got the Anarcho-Communists who are quite different, though they're also quite different from the Qun of course.

In the case of the Qun, they've got common ownership of the means of production and have abolished the class system and money, which are all good communist goals. The Qun is essentially a commune. Admittedly they don't show much sign of wanting a withering away of the state, though perhaps they might argue that they've effectively abolished the distinction between rulers and rules and that being a talmassran is just a job, meaning that the state has effectively withered away. But they lack any real sign of Marxist economics or theories of history with class struggle and so forth. So I think they class quite comfortably as communist, but can't be meaningfully considered marxist.

(I hope that at some point we could encounter a few Tal-Vashoth attempting to build an anarcho-Qunist society, mixing the more admirable Qunari ideals of serving the common good with a belief in the importance of liberty.)

[Steelcan]

As for the Qunari, you're right on the money about their primary Islamic parallel being an expansionistic alien culture in opposition to the European/Christian Thedas, along with some bits about a higher standard of cleanliness and education. And they are communists. But aside from that their actual belief system is more in line with Taoist/Confucianist philosophy.

I'd say its more in line with Platonic political thought rather than Confucian. 

[Steelcan]

Communism and Marxism are not synonymous, even if I believe Marx did coin the term. For example you've got the Anarcho-Communists who are quite different, though they're also quite different from the Qun of course.

In the case of the Qun, they've got common ownership of the means of production and have abolished the class system and money, which are all good communist goals. The Qun is essentially a commune. Admittedly they don't show much sign of wanting a withering away of the state, though perhaps they might argue that they've effectively abolished the distinction between rulers and rules and that being a talmassran is just a job, meaning that the state has effectively withered away. But they lack any real sign of Marxist economics or theories of history with class struggle and so forth. So I think they class quite comfortably as communist, but can't be meaningfully considered marxist.
 

Communism is, quite briefly put, the idea that in order to bring about a more egalitarian society the means of production and political power must be invested in the working classes, or the proletariat.  They qualify as Marxist because the proletariat own the means of production which is the fulfillment of Marxist thought.  It doesn't matter how they arrived at this conclusion, it only matters that they have.  They also rail against the debauchery and exploitation of the masses by the nobility in Thedas fulfilling the Marxist narrative of class warfare.

 

This is different from Communitarianism which is the more anarchist ideal of government.

[QueenCrow]

I'd consider the female clergy in the southern Chantry a mirroring of Catholicism. In a sense its the opposite, but it still leaves the clergy a single gender, celibate order very like Catholicism. The male "original sin" would I suppose be the betrayal of Maferath which caused the Maker to turn from humanity, though this doesn't seem to have any effect outside of the church sonce Thedosian society still seems to tend towards the patriarchal.

 

That sounds right to me.

 

As regards the Qunari, I was trying to think of a culture, any culture or religion, in which the raising of children/offspring is collectivized as Iron Bull will describe.  The only thing I could come up with is the Israeli Kibbutz, where the children spend their time in a house specifically designed to raising children and are cared for and educated by a nanny in a role similar to a Tamassran.

 

Can anyone else think of anything similar, or a better real world parallel for Qunari collectivized child rearing?

[Ashagar]

Nothing comes to mind other than dystopian scifi novels and the Qun is filled with Dystopian themes from what I have seen so far.

[Meredydd]

 

P.S.  Where do you think the Dwarves fit in to real world religious parallels?

Mmmm...the Dwarves are a hard one. I've found some similarities in the old pagan religions with their shamanistic traditions of Earth (Stone) and Ancestor (Paragon) reverence, which run parallel to those of the Dwarves. The Caste system is perhaps inspired by the Hindu caste system of India.

[Meredydd]

I think the quest in DA:O, where you help the Dwarven Andrastian priest establish a Chantry in Orzammar, is also a direct reference to how Thomas (one of Jesus' Apostles) first introduced Christianity to the Indian population, establishing a few churches before his death.

[Steelcan]

The Dwarves of Orzammar are meant to evoke very clearly the Dwarves of Tolkien's works.

[Caritas_Lavellan]

One theory I have is that the spirit of wisdom in Solas' personal quest forms an analogue to the Holy Spirit in the Christian trinity, with Solas/Fen'Harel as the Word made flesh (Jesus) in Thedas, linking perhaps to Dirthamen, elven god of wisdom and Falon'Din, elven god of death and fortune, both split out from Elgar'nan the father (similar to the vengeful God of the Old Testament). I envisaged the Nightmare demon in the raw fade as existing as a crucifixion: a spirit of compassion taking on all of the sins/fears of the world. The mystery of June might also potentially be a trinitarian reference, if you look at the mosaics in the temple of Mythal.

There are various dialogues, primarily between Solas and Cole, which potentially hint at this, although I am sure a lot of this is deliberately left vague to allow us to form our own interpretations, any of which could be "true". In this context the Solas/Lavellan romance is somewhat similar to Christian Gnosticism.

I wrote out some of my thoughts on this as a story in Mind Heart / Under the Fresco - see link in my signature to the series. I'm currently working on a counterpart from Lavellan's point of view which will explore the elven faith links further.

[Carmen_Willow]

Communists who aren't Marxists...

 

about that....

Socialism existed long before Karl did. The only difference is that he wanted one-world socialism, and the rest of them weren't quite there yet. Hitler in particular wanted socialism to retain its national flavor. Seeing as how they hope to have the Qun be world-wide?  Communism kinda fits. Maybe not Marx's version, but....Qunari have much more in common with Socialism/Communism than Islam. Islamists WORSHIP a montheistic god. Qunari don't have gods they have the STATE, the SOCIETY.

 

Both Islam and Marxist Communism have the goal of world-wide domination of their belief system. In that BOTH ideologies agree.

[Carmen_Willow]

That sounds right to me.

 

As regards the Qunari, I was trying to think of a culture, any culture or religion, in which the raising of children/offspring is collectivized as Iron Bull will describe.  The only thing I could come up with is the Israeli Kibbutz, where the children spend their time in a house specifically designed to raising children and are cared for and educated by a nanny in a role similar to a Tamassran.

 

Can anyone else think of anything similar, or a better real world parallel for Qunari collectivized child rearing?

Aldous Huxley's BRAVE NEW WORLD! The method is different but the goal is the same. No biological families. The only parent is the STATE.

[Meredydd]

The dictionary to the rescue!

Communism: a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state OR a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.

Marxism: the system of economic and political thought developed by Karl Marx, along with Friedrich Engels, especially the doctrine that the state throughout history has been a device for the exploitation of the masses by a dominant class, that class struggle has been the main agency of historical change, and that the capitalist system, containing from the first the seeds of its own decay, will inevitably, after the period of the dictatorship of the proletariat, be superseded by a socialist order and a classless society.

 

Both have the same end goal of an equal society but other than that you can be a Marxist (or Neo-marxist) without being a communist.

[Steelcan]

The dictionary to the rescue!

Communism: a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state OR a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.

Marxism: the system of economic and political thought developed by Karl Marx, along with Friedrich Engels, especially the doctrine that the state throughout history has been a device for the exploitation of the masses by a dominant class, that class struggle has been the main agency of historical change, and that the capitalist system, containing from the first the seeds of its own decay, will inevitably, after the period of the dictatorship of the proletariat, be superseded by a socialist order and a classless society.

 

Both have the same end goal of an equal society but other than that you can be a Marxist (or Neo-marxist) without being a communist.

the end result of Marxist thought is supposed to be Communism

[Illegitimus]

Socialism existed long before Karl did. The only difference is that he wanted one-world socialism, and the rest of them weren't quite there yet. Hitler in particular wanted socialism to retain its national flavor. Seeing as how they hope to have the Qun be world-wide?  Communism kinda fits. Maybe not Marx's version, but....Qunari have much more in common with Socialism/Communism than Islam. Islamists WORSHIP a montheistic god. Qunari don't have gods they have the STATE, the SOCIETY.

 

Both Islam and Marxist Communism have the goal of world-wide domination of their belief system. In that BOTH ideologies agree.

 

<snort>  There aren't any ideologies that disagree.  

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

There is also a broader similarity. In both real life and in Thedas the gods are fiction, and in both worlds the few and powerful uses it as a tool to control the ignorant masses. Taking this into account there is really no need to identify the straws when you can identify the haystack. For what it's worth your post is fairly accurate though.

[QueenCrow]

The Dwarves of Orzammar are meant to evoke very clearly the Dwarves of Tolkien's works.

Agreed.  And the Dwarves of Tolkien's work were inspired by two sources.  One of the sources was the Dwarves of Norse legend (Eddas and Sagas) and, at least for the Hobbit, and relevant to this topic, Jews displaced from their homeland - an idea suggested by Owen Dudley Edwards in British Children's Fiction in the Second World War.

 

Also, another BSNer - I believe it was rpgfan321, suggested as SoldatPetra has suggested, that the elements of ancestor worship and castes are related to real world Eastern traditions.

 

So, perhaps Dwarves, as with Qunari, are a conglomeration of fictional, legendary, and real world religious elements?

[QueenCrow]

There is also a broader similarity. In both real life and in Thedas the gods are fiction, and in both worlds the few and powerful uses it as a tool to control the ignorant masses. Taking this into account there is really no need to identify the straws when you can identify the haystack. For what it's worth your post is fairly accurate though.

 

Here is another place where we can draw similarities between the real world and Dragon Age games.  Everyone has their own definition of "God".  It can be anything to an omniscient presence directing the world, or a creative physical force responsible for a "big bang", a story told to keep people in line, or anything before, after, or in between.

 

In Dragon Age, it's ironic that one worshiped as a god speaks on his definition of gods and the maker...

 

Solas: I know. I believe the elven gods existed, as did the old gods of Tevinter. But I do not think any of them were gods, unless you expand the definition of the word to the point of absurdity. I appreciate the idea of your Maker, a god that does not need to prove his power. I wish more such gods felt the same.

 

In one breath:  "I do not think any of them were gods"

In the next breath:  "Maker, a god ... "

 

Which leaves me with the golden question again.  Define God?

[FrankWisdom]

This is just a list of similarities I have noticed between the civilizations of Thedas and real world religions. I'm not arguing that these groups are solely based off these religions, however the similarities are undeniable.

 

The Elves were influenced by the Jewish peoples. Both:

1. Are composed of various different clans/houses
2. Were driven away from their original homeland
3. Are persecuted, either for their race or their religion
4. Have lived quartered off areas e.g. Alienages, Camps (Nazi Germany), the old Jewish quarter in Jerusalem
5. Are or have been nomadic
6. Refuse to worship Andraste/Jesus

 

I'd also include Native Americans as a strong influence on the Elvhen People. My grandfather was Native American (Abenaki) and he was institutionalized in a "reform" school like many of his peers, where he was beat and stripped of his cultural identity as well as his beliefs and language. Many were also raped as well as beat, boys and girls alike. This mind you, was still happening less than 100 years ago. I call that subtle genocide through "assimilation".

Anyways

1. Loss of cultural identity

2. consisting of different clans/tribes

3. Their (our) homeland was "stolen"

3. Were enslaved/reformed/assimilated and live in reserves i.e. Alienages

4.Have been nomadic

5. Are/have been persecuted for their race and for their religion/way of life ( example: treaties made with the "savages")

6. Were literally forced to abandon their beliefs/"religion" and convert to Christianity i.e. the Elves of the Dales forced to renounce their gods and convert to Andrastianism in order to live "among" the humans.

7.Used to be very spiritual i.e. parallels with The Fade and dreams

etc.

 

Many parallels with the Elves in Dragon Age.

[The Ascendant]

To be honest I see more similarities with Islam in the Chantry than Christianity. 

1) War leader prophet 

2) Debate over the divinity of said prophet and their successor

[Former_Fiend]

To be honest I see more similarities with Islam in the Chantry than Christianity. 

1) War leader prophet 

2) Debate over the divinity of said prophet and their successor

 

It's not like those ideas are entirely absent in Christianity. The debate over Christ's divinity was a very heated one in the earlier days of the religion, and a popular idea of the second coming is Christ as the Lion as opposed to the Lamb.

 

But while Andrastism is something of a conflagration of the different Abrahamic religions, the Chantry's place in the culture and society is very much the equivalent of the Catholic Church.