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Civilizations of Thedas and real world Religions


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#76
Heimdall

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Andraste really only seems to have one:  "Magic is meant to serve man and never rule over him."  Though, I have to ask:  Wasn't that already IN the Chant of Light prior to her saying it? 

The Chant of light was put together after her death, much of it from her teachings, it was in the Chant because she said it.



#77
Dean_the_Young

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"Purges" of Alienages seem to happen fairly regularly. For example in Wycombe during the Clan Lavellan operations, by Howe in the Denerim Alienage and another one that killed Soris' parents

 

Not quite the nation-wide things I was thinking of, since most alienage 'purges' seem to be local and a matter of personal direction than systemic policies, but I'll concede that point if you'd like.

 

Hmm unlike the catholic church complex relationship with Jews you don't have chantry priests getting killed trying to protect elves from mobs like catholic priests were killed attempting to protect Jews and the Divines aren't threatening to excommunicate nobility and kings if they don't protect elves unlike the Popes who also made it clear in numerous papal bulls that anyone who murdered a Jew, forced them to convert  or prevented them from freely worshiping and celebrating their festivals faced excommunication from the church, things that later used by protestants to attack the catholic church for the evils of being tolerant and protective of Jews during the reformation.

 

We don't have that now, but we also don't have those same sort of threats. City elves are already converted, and it's been... what, 700 years since the Dales fell, iirc? If there was a time when it would have been more common, it would have been when the Chantry was forcing all the nations to take in converted elves.

 

Trying to remember what happened to the Mother/Sister at the alienage marriage in the City Elf origin. Don't remember her dying, but don't think it was winning anyone the Chantry's forgiveness. The Chantry Mother of Ferelden certainly was vowing opposition to Loghaine when the slavery issue came out.



#78
Vorathrad

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Hmm unlike the catholic church complex relationship with Jews you don't have chantry priests getting killed trying to protect elves from mobs like catholic priests were killed attempting to protect Jews and the Divines aren't threatening to excommunicate nobility and kings if they don't protect elves unlike the Popes who also made it clear in numerous papal bulls that anyone who murdered a Jew, forced them to convert  or prevented them from freely worshiping and celebrating their festivals faced excommunication from the church, things that later used by protestants to attack the catholic church for the evils of being tolerant and protective of Jews during the reformation.

 

Well, the Catholic Kings of Spain forced Jews to convert and eventually kicked them out of the country, so I don't think one can say protecting Jews is a core feature of the Catholic Church. That thing with the Catholic Kings could be said to be similar to the Exalted March on the Dales, though I don't think they used it as a direct source.



#79
Wulfram

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The Chant of light was put together after her death, much of it from her teachings, it was in the Chant because she said it.


If she did say it, I wouldn't really count on actual quotes surviving that long.

Though she probably said something similar. "The Magisters are a bunch of [expletives], don't be like them guys!"

Trying to remember what happened to the Mother/Sister at the alienage marriage in the City Elf origin. Don't remember her dying, but don't think it was winning anyone the Chantry's forgiveness.


She's said to leave the Alienage because some drunken wedding guests threatened her. Rather ungrateful since she did make some effort to stand up to Vaughan, but not that extreme.

#80
Dean_the_Young

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If she did say it, I wouldn't really count on actual quotes surviving that long.

Though she probably said something similar. "The Magisters are a bunch of [expletives], don't be like them guys!"

 

I wonder how much of the Chant of Light was her pillow talk. :P



#81
Former_Fiend

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As a point, the Chant of Light actually has five commandments set down in the Canticle of Transfigurations. The Magic Exists to Serve Man one is just the most quoted; it isn't even the first.

 

These truths the Maker has revealed to me:
As there is but one world, 
One life, one death, there is 
But one god, and He is our Maker.
They are sinners, who have given their love
To false gods.
 
Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him. 
Foul and corrupt are they
Who have taken His gift
And turned it against His children.
They shall be named Maleficar, accursed ones.
They shall find no rest in this world
Or beyond.
 
All men are the Work of our Maker's Hands,
From the lowest slaves
To the highest kings.
Those who bring harm
Without provocation to the least of His children
Are hated and accursed by the Maker. 
 
Those who bear false witness
And work to deceive others, know this:
There is but one Truth.
All things are known to our Maker
And He shall judge their lies.
 
All things in this world are finite.
What one man gains, another has lost.
Those who steal from their brothers and sisters
Do harm to their livelihood and to their peace of mind.
Our Maker sees this with a heavy heart.

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#82
Wulfram

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The 3rd and 5th seem quite handy for a peasant uprising. Particularly the 5th, which isn't all that far from calling rich people thieves if you want to read it that way.

#83
Vorathrad

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The 1st is the 2nd commandment of Catholicism ("Thou shalt have no other gods") and the 4th is very similar to the 9th ("Thou shalt not bear false witness")



#84
Ashagar

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Well, the Catholic Kings of Spain forced Jews to convert and eventually kicked them out of the country, so I don't think one can say protecting Jews is a core feature of the Catholic Church. That thing with the Catholic Kings could be said to be similar to the Exalted March on the Dales, though I don't think they used it as a direct source.

 

Its was also after late antiquity when Pope Gregory the great entered the protection of Jews into religious doctrine. It was also after the middle ages when the church was also highly actively protecting Jews from both the nobility and the commons and got extremely upset about any sort violence against Jews repeatedly reissuing the Sicut Judaeis which got first issued in response to the slaughter of Jews in both Europe and the middle east during the first crusade to remind people that under catholic dotrine that yes jews were to be protected and allowed religious liberty. 

 

I will give you that the Spanish crowns and nobility was extremely intolerant which was not good given that they also controlled the local inquisitions unlike elsewhere where the church controlled the inquisitions. In fact during the middle ages the majority of instances of I read about nobles and royality being threatened or even excommunicated for the treatment of Jews were from the Spanish kingdoms.


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#85
Dean_the_Young

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The 3rd and 5th seem quite handy for a peasant uprising. Particularly the 5th, which isn't all that far from calling rich people thieves if you want to read it that way.

 

Also works the other way around- preserving the wealth of the rich.

 

Think the 'do not covet' commandment when it comes to redistribution.


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