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[Qun00]

We really don't.

Carrying a fragment of another person's life energy isn't the same thing as literally being the latter. Flemeth isn't Mythal anymore than Kieran is Urthemiel.

Even if we accept that Flemeth has at least become Mythal, that doesn't tell us what she originally was.

Rather than answering this old question the fans had about the character, all this big reveal does is answering another we'd never asked.

[leaguer of one]

We do know what Flemeth is....

 

 

 

This is what Mythal is. What Anders and Justice became.

[Ranadiel Marius]

What's there to know? If you use the history perk to sum up the basic legend of Flemeth, she makes a comment about how someday someone will sum up your life in ten seconds, implying the general gist of it was right. So she was originally an Almarri noblewoman who was locked in a tower for being unfaithful, then pacted with Mythal and then became a force of nature.

[Qun00]

We do know what Flemeth is....
 
https://www.youtube....h?v=7nLtlJiN5_8
 
 
This is what Mythal is. What Anders and Justice became.

Yeah, I did have that comparison in mind.

But merging isn't quite the same as being the same individual. It means the two are joined together like Eddie Brock and Venom.

Anyhow, Flemeth still refers to Mythal in the third person, so the distinction still is made.

My other point is that when people kept asking what Flemeth was, they wanted to know what she was originally. That question hasn't been answered.

[Qun00]

What's there to know? If you use the history perk to sum up the basic legend of Flemeth, she makes a comment about how someday someone will sum up your life in ten seconds, implying the general gist of it was right. So she was originally an Almarri noblewoman who was locked in a tower for being unfaithful, then pacted with Mythal and then became a force of nature.

Just a human apostate as people were led to believe, then?

But that begs the question, how much of Flemeth's knowledge and power should be associated with Mythal's influence?

[Heimdall]

Yeah, I did have that comparison in mind.

But merging isn't quite the same as being the same individual. It means the two are joined together like Eddie Brock and Venom.

Anyhow, Flemeth still refers to Mythal in the third person, so the distinction still is made.

My other point is that when people kept asking what Flemeth was, they wanted to know what she was originally. That question hasn't been answered.

Flemeth talks about herself in the third person sometimes,  She's weird like that.

 

We know she was a mage that encountered Mythal, I'm not sure I catch your meaning.

[Ranadiel Marius]

Just a human apostate as people were led to believe, then?

But that begs the question, how much of Flemeth's knowledge and power should be associated with Mythal's influence?

Since we have no indication that she was formally trained in a Circle and the circumstances of her life seem incompatible with such training, I'd say nearly all of her knowledge comes from Mythal. Power is probably a combination of Mythal's knowledge with centuries of practice.

[Heimdall]

Just a human apostate as people were led to believe, then?

But that begs the question, how much of Flemeth's knowledge and power should be associated with Mythal's influence?

Probably a lot, plus whatever knowledge she's gathered in several centuries of life.

[BansheeOwnage]

We do know what Flemeth is....

 

 

 

This is what Mythal is. What Anders and Justice became.

Poor Anders.

[Arshei]

Just a human apostate as people were led to believe, then?

But that begs the question, how much of Flemeth's knowledge and power should be associated with Mythal's influence?

 

She becomes immortal.

[Cyrus Amell]

Flemeth was not an apostate when she merged with Mythal because the Circle, and indeed Andrastianism as we know it, did not exist at the time. This fact lends quite a bit of credibility to theories tying Flemeth's origin story with some of Andraste's own due to their vicinity in time and space. While she could have been a mage back when she was only human, it's just as likely that she had no powers at all and was normal. Solas seemed to have implied that all elves were once mages, and that when he awoke it seemed to him the world was filled with Tranquils. Perhaps all humans and elves have magical potential but only mages are born with ability to use it. In Flemeth's case, being possessed by an entity such as Mythal would have done the trick. 

 

As for what she is, well, that depends on what Mythal is. As we all know, Mythal was once a very powerful elven mage who, just like Solas and her fellow self-proclaimed gods, was an entity with great spiritual durability. 

 

As we saw in the Fade, the spirit of Divine Justinian seems to imply that a powerful (or blessed) individual may retain some degree of their origional former self after death.  

 

So Mythal could be an ancient elven mage who turned into a spirit after her death and merged with Flemeth. However, this spirit was not a demon or indeed a true spirit because it retained her true being even in death - which is why Morrigan was bound to Flemeth when she partook of the Well of Sorrows. 

[zestalyn]

Can someone tell me why Solas turned Flemeth to stone? I feel like it should be clear to me upon completing Trespasser, but its not. Was there a legitimate reason behind that?

[LightningPoodle]

She's thee abominable snowman!

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

Dead. She is dead.

[sylvanaerie]

I thought the spirit in the Fade was a spirit of Faith.  Isn't there a moment of revelation when you learn it's not Justinia?  Although it may have taken on her memories/seeming and could be likened to her.

 

*edit* Unless, like we see in DA2, there's more than one "Flemeth" running around.  Legends speak of many daughters who just...disappear...I don't think she's fully gone from Thedas.

[LightningPoodle]

Can someone tell me why Solas turned Flemeth to stone? I feel like it should be clear to me upon completing Trespasser, but its not. Was there a legitimate reason behind that?

An act of respect? Preserving her body for all of eternity? He layer the body down. In Trespasser, he just left the bodies where they stood. He obviously had respect for her and so treated her body with honour.

[Heimdall]

Flemeth was not an apostate when she merged with Mythal because the Circle, and indeed Andrastianism as we know it, did not exist at the time. This facts lends quite a bit of credibility tying Flemeth's origin story with some of Andraste's own due to their vicinity in time and space. 

Hold your horses, I can't seem to find a date for her supposed life, but the Chantry didn't enter Ferelden until the Exalted age, over five centuries after the foundation of the Chantry.  That Flemeth was an Alamarri noblewoman prior to the Chntry entering Ferelden doesn't necessarily put her in the historical vicinity of Andraste.

[Ranadiel Marius]

Hold your horses, I can't seem to find a date for her supposed life, but the Chantry didn't enter Ferelden until the Exalted age, over five centuries after the foundation of the Chantry. That Flemeth was an Alamarri noblewoman prior to the Chntry entering Ferelden doesn't necessarily put her in the historical vicinity of Andraste.

I recall reading that History of Thedas vol. 1 has her birth in the timeline and it is several centuries after Andraste. Only source on the topic I can think of.

[leaguer of one]

Yeah, I did have that comparison in mind.

But merging isn't quite the same as being the same individual. It means the two are joined together like Eddie Brock and Venom.

Anyhow, Flemeth still refers to Mythal in the third person, so the distinction still is made.

My other point is that when people kept asking what Flemeth was, they wanted to know what she was originally. That question hasn't been answered.

Sorry, but Ander time and time agein state that it's like they are one now. no one end and other begins.

[Cyrus Amell]

I recall reading that History of Thedas vol. 1 has her birth in the timeline and it is several centuries after Andraste. Only source on the topic I can think of.

 

Considering she is immortal, a span of a few centuries would mean nothing to her. The Legend of Luthais Dwarfson, the first human berseker following dwarven traditions, tells of his battle against a Morrighan'nan who could easily have been a daughter of Flemeth. This means the Witch of the Wilds was in business long before Andraste showed up - and she is in the neighborhood (Fereldan). 

[Mlady]

I would say she was like Andraste. A mage (I strongly believe Andraste was a mage/dreamer) that was betrayed by a loved one and found kinship with a spirit. Perhaps Mythal even aided Andraste as she did Flemeth.

[Heimdall]

Considering she is immortal, a span of a few centuries would mean nothing to her. The Legend of Luthais Dwarfson, the first human berseker following dwarven traditions, tells of his battle against a Morrighan'nan who could easily have been a daughter of Flemeth. This means the Witch of the Wilds was in business long before Andraste showed up - and she is in the neighborhood (Fereldan).

Morrighan'nan being a daughter of Flemeth based on a vague name similarity to Morrigan is flimsy basis to claim she somehow end lived centuries before her own birth.

Morrighan'nan wasn't a witch of the wilds, she was a war leader and I don't remember anything about her being a Mage.

[Bhryaen]

Flemeth is just the most recent daughter of the original person who accepted Mythal into themselves. That's what the grimoire was about- subsuming daughters- and why she needs Morrigan to accept Mythal too- i.e., to pass Mythal along. Alas, Solas got to her first, though in the moments before he did, Flemeth was sending some sort of blue magic life force through the nearby eluvian, so... who knows...

 

Can someone tell me why Solas turned Flemeth to stone? I feel like it should be clear to me upon completing Trespasser, but its not. Was there a legitimate reason behind that?

I didn't see her turn to stone. It looked more like Flemeth went black- as if all the life had been drained from her. (Even her clothes turned black haha) Mythal was clearly the only thing keeping Flemeth alive since she just became a husk after Mythal transferred to Solas.

 

And that's actually a big difference between the Mythal-Flemeth connection and the Justice-Anders connection: the former were inseparable without the "host body" dying. Also Mythal is like a full person in spirit form while Justice was just a simple spirit based on a single principle.

[Mlady]

Flemeth is just the most recent daughter of the original person who accepted Mythal into themselves. That's what the grimoire was about- subsuming daughters- and why she needs Morrigan to accept Mythal too- i.e., to pass Mythal along. Alas, Solas got to her first, though in the moments before he did, Flemeth was sending some sort of blue magic life force through the nearby eluvian, so... who knows...

 

I didn't see her turn to stone. It looked more like Flemeth went black- as if all the life had been drained from her. (Even her clothes turned black haha) Mythal was clearly the only thing keeping Flemeth alive since she just became a husk after Mythal transferred to Solas.

 

And that's actually a big difference between the Mythal-Flemeth connection and the Justice-Anders connection: the former were inseparable without the "host body" dying. Also Mythal is like a full person in spirit form while Justice was just a simple spirit based on a single principle.

 

I find it interesting that Mythal can body hop like Corypheus and Archdemons. Maybe that's what Solas meant by his people can't be killed easily. Maybe they were the first to do that?

[Bhryaen]

I find it interesting that Mythal can body hop like Corypheus and Archdemons. Maybe that's what Solas meant by his people can't be killed easily. Maybe they were the first to do that?

Well, I don't think Cory and Archy needed the host's permission. They just seem to sort of spontaneously possess. Flemeth tells Morrigan that she was never in danger because the transfer (of Mythal) must be of her own free will. But then again the Cory/Archy version is the corrupted one, so...