196 réponses à ce sujet

[actionhero112]

Should have came out with an adaptable DLC bundle as soon as the GOTY edition came out. 

Huehuehue. But I expect nothing less from EA. Entice new players with discounts, squeeze every penny out of your current ones. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

You seem to be missing the point (at least the point I was trying to make when starting the thread). I do not regret purchasing the game and DLCs that I have at the higher price that I did. What I do regret is that by purchasing them when I did I have to purchase all further DLCs at full price. I'm not begrudging the original listed price; I'm pissed that new customers are able to pick up all the DLCs for cheaper than I can purchase a single one.

Then you're missing my point, because that was it.

You made a decision with which you were happy. You claim still to be happy with it. What you're unhappy about is that other people get to buy things for less.

The thing being granted to other people is what bothers you. It has literally no effect on you, but it bothers you.

[AlanC9]

You, for one, are against lower prices.

That's simply wrong, and a little stupid. If they sold a bundle, I'd buy it. I'd be even more interested in ME bundles, though. And as a business matter, I suspect they're leaving a fair amount of money on the table by not having DLC sales

Instead of complaining about the people that would like a bundle, in the same amount of time you could have hit the little "help" button on the EA store and asked the online rep if they are going to offer one. If 5 people ask, they wont. If 1,000 people ask, maybe they will see interest and may offer one. If no one asks, you will never see it.

Yep. Could have. Sounds boring, so I didn't. Did you?

[GithCheater]

I'm pissed that new customers are able to pick up all the DLCs for cheaper than I can purchase a single one. 

Definitely price gouging

[Zatche]

Definitely price gouging

 

Lowering the price is price gouging?

[Zatche]

 I'm pissed that new customers are able to pick up all the DLCs for cheaper than I can purchase a single one.

 

They waited for the Demand to lower so the price would lower. Good for them.

 

I do this all the time with other games. About a month or 2 ago, I bought all 3 Borderlands GOTY versions for less than $50. People who paid full price; they paid for something I didn't get: early adoption.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

I gladly paid full price for my pre-ordered, Deluxe Edition, copy of DAI.  And I've acquired all the DLC as soon as it was released.

I made that decision knowing full well that if I waited the price(s) would come down.  If I waited a year, they'd come down a lot!

 

I didn't want to wait, I wanted to play!  And play I did.  Lots!  (Currently over 1400 hours logged on DAI alone, and it's not the only game I've played over the past year.)  But that was my individual decision.  I have some sympathy for the PS3/XB360 players who don't have the opportunity to get the last couple of DLC.  I have none for people who complain that they deserve a special price because others can now get the game+DLC cheaper than they did.

[GithCheater]

Lowering the price is price gouging?

Huh? The price of individual DLCs has not changed.

 

The prices of individual DLCs (< 20 hours of total content) have not changed while the price of the base game (200 hours of content) dropped 1/3 in price.  The price of the base game ($40 on Origin) is ironically about 30% cheaper than the $55 dollar cost of the DLC.

[London]

They waited for the Demand to lower so the price would lower. Good for them.
 
I do this all the time with other games. About a month or 2 ago, I bought all 3 Borderlands GOTY versions for less than $50. People who paid full price; they paid for something I didn't get: early adoption.

The demand is lower now, and anyone who purchased the base game but no DLC is now getting gouged. You can't tell me the DLC is still worth $55 and the base game is now only worth $5, which is the only way to conclude that this is a fair deal for those who own the base game.

[Zatche]

Huh? The price of individual DLCs has not changed.

 

The prices of individual DLCs (< 20 hours of total content) have not changed while the price of the base game (200 hours of content) dropped 1/3 in price.  The price of the base game ($40 on Origin) is ironically about 30% cheaper than the $55 dollar cost of the DLC.

 

You were responding to this quote:

 

"I'm pissed that new customers are able to pick up all the DLCs for cheaper than I can purchase a single one."

 

Price gouging is when prices of a said product go up, not when the price related products go down. (Also, generally, the term price gouging is used on goods that are needs, like food, medicine, etc. Not for luxuries. Descent and Trespasser are not AIDS medicine.)

 

Also, I don't find the differences in price ironic at all. The vanilla game is near a year old. The DLCs are pretty new in comparison. There's a certain value to "new". Not too mention, if we look at it from a cost based price analysis, much less people buy DLCs than the vanilla game. So, in order for EA/Bioware to get the same kind of profit from their DLCs as they do the vanilla game, the price to content ratio will have to be higher. And from a supply and demand perspective, it's generally more hardcore fans who are willing to pay more that are interested in DLCs, anyway.

 

My point is, prices are set by economics, not principal. If you don't want to buy the DLC at the current prices, wait for a sale.

[London]

You were responding to this quote:

"I'm pissed that new customers are able to pick up all the DLCs for cheaper than I can purchase a single one."

Price gouging is when prices of a said product go up, not when the price related products go down. (Also, generally, the term price gouging is used on goods that are needs, like food, medicine, etc. Not for luxuries. Descent and Trespasser are not AIDS medicine.)

Also, I don't find the differences in price ironic at all. The vanilla game is near a year old. The DLCs are pretty new in comparison. There's a certain value to "new". Not too mention, if we look at it from a cost based price analysis, much less people buy DLCs than the vanilla game. So, in order for EA/Bioware to get the same kind of profit from their DLCs as they do the vanilla game, the price to content ratio will have to be higher. And from a supply and demand perspective, it's generally more hardcore fans who are willing to pay more that are interested in DLCs, anyway.

My point is, prices are set by economics, not principal. If you don't want to buy the DLC at the current prices, wait for a sale.

The distinction that price gouging only happens with necessities is false. Price gouging happens in many other contexts, from people buying out concert tickets or football tickets and scalping them to other non-necessities such as movie theaters selling snacks at a premium by artificially restricting access to other food.

Again the DLC has now obviously been heavily discounted for new purchasers and those who bought the base game are being gouged - their options are to buy the DLC for $55 or buy a product they don't fully need for $60. Unless you are arguing that the base game is now worth $5 which is not what it is being sold for.

[Zatche]

The demand is lower now, and anyone who purchased the base game but no DLC is now getting gouged. You can't tell me the DLC is still worth $55 and the base game is now only worth $5, which is the only way to conclude that this is a fair deal for those who own the base game.

 

The distinction that price gouging only happens with necessities is false. Price gouging happens in many other contexts, from people buying out concert tickets or football tickets and scalping them to other non-necessities such as movie theaters selling snacks at a premium by artificially restricting access to other food.

Again the DLC has now obviously been heavily discounted for new purchasers and those who bought the base game are being gouged - their options are to buy the DLC for $55 or buy a product they don't fully need for $60. Unless you are arguing that the base game is now worth $5 which is not what it is being sold for.

 

I said generally, but fair enough. The term price gouging can be applied when the demand is really high and there is no alternative. But this is not price gouging. There is an alternative. People can wait for a sale. (Edit: And I still think that's worth noting that video games are luxuries and the prices we pay for them are first world problems. As such, I think the drama surrounding new players getting a deal that early adopters don't get is silly.) Being able to play the game at launch has value. Being able to play the DLCs now has value. If you don't think the price is worth being able to play now, then wait for it.

 

The value of the content is completely subjective. And the relative prices of the vanilla version, the GOTY version, the individual have no bearing on how much value one assigns them. So no, I'm not going to say the DLC is worth $55 and the vanilla game is worth $5, just because that is how the GOTY version is priced. Nor am I going to say that is anyhow unfair. It simply means that you can get more content per dollar if you buy all the content bundled.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

No, London, you are grossly mistaken. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY to "price gouge" for a game. By definition, gouging applies only to necessities that are suddenly scarce and there is no alternative. Games are not necessities and, as noted above, there is an alternative... patience.

Most importantly, no one is under any compulsion to spend money on entertainment. End of discussion.

[GithCheater]

No, London, you are grossly mistaken. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY to "price gouge" for a game. By definition, gouging applies only to necessities that are suddenly scarce and there is no alternative. Games are not necessities and, as noted above, there is an alternative... patience.

Most importantly, no one is under any compulsion to spend money on entertainment. End of discussion.

 

"Webster" disagrees

 

http://www.webster-d...n/price gouging

 

Noun 1. price gouging - pricing above the market when no alternative retailer is available

[Thandal N'Lyman]

Webster is slipshod.

=================

OED:
Definition of price-gouging in English:

noun

The action or practice of increasing prices sharply, especially to take advantage of high demand.

=================

There has been no INCREASE in price for any piece of DAI since release.

[London]

The problem is, is that there are now two classes of purchasers who are being treated differently.

You are charging people who already invested money in the game more money for the same exact product - the DLC - than those who couldn't be bothered to buy anything.

I understand the value of having been able to play the game for nearly a year - when the game was completely new, More often the topic of discussion, with less likelihood of being spoiled, and when the game was comparatively better for being new than games coming out now that have advanced even further. Ialso understand that BioWare is hoping to capture money from those who wouldn't have bought it at all.

But I draw the line when people are being charged different amounts for the same content, by the same seller, at the very same point in time. Other games, like Street Fighter for example, would charge $40 for a new edition for new customers but offer an upgrade for early adopters at $15. The early adopter still paid more, but does not feel quite so taken advantage of.

[London]

Webster is slipshod.
=================
OED:
Definition of price-gouging in English:
noun
The action or practice of increasing prices sharply, especially to take advantage of high demand.
=================
There has been no INCREASE in price for any piece of DAI since release.

Your earlier argument still fails - demand does not mean the items being demanded are necessities and not luxuries.

You also don't need to increase a price to gouge a class of people when you are purposely offering the items at a Lower cost to others.

[Pallando]

No, you're not being ripped off, it's just business. Like I said before, the question you need to ask yourself is, "How do I get the people who didn't spend $60 for the game then to spend those $60 now?" The answer is the GOTY edition. For better or worse, if you've already bought the game before the GOTY edition, then you're no longer the focus of EA/BioWare. Think of it like this, anyone who wants to get the "complete" experience needs to fork over now $60 at most. If, you bought some DLC already, then you need to spend less than that.

 

I've read people argue that BF4 and Borderlands 2 offered customers the chance to buy extra content (DLC) at a discount in the form of bundles and season passes. I'm afraid those are not particularly good examples. First, BF4 did not have a GOTY edition so there's really no point of comparison there. Second, Borderlands 2 offered season passes, yes, but those are merely a promise for content that has yet to be released, meaning you're essentially pre-ordering DLC; thus, they're offering you a deal in exchange for your financing, something that also doesn't apply here.

 

This has been the point of GOTY editions since time immemorial, guys. Why is it a big deal now?

 

"It's always been that way" is not a reason to not change how things are. 

 

Also, it's not in the company's interest to send the message that "waiting is worth more than the change in price of the game". 

You spend 60€ at most to have the game and everything, but if you have no DLC that means that you have to pay 55€, meaning your Deluxe Edition is virtually worth 5€ from their bundle, although it sells for 50€. 

 

So their message is "if you wait 1 year before buying the game, you get a 90% discount on the game if you buy the DLCs that will be out by then".

 

That's some weird way to incite people to buy a game early... If 90% of the value of the game is worth 1 year of waiting, you don't value your game much then...

[Thandal N'Lyman]

"It's always been that way" is not a reason to not change how things are. 

 

Also, it's not in the company's interest to send the message that "waiting is worth more than the change in price of the game". 

You spend 60€ at most to have the game and everything, but if you have no DLC that means that you have to pay 55€, meaning your Deluxe Edition is virtually worth 5€ from their bundle, although it sells for 50€. 

 

So their message is "if you wait 1 year before buying the game, you get a 90% discount on the game if you buy the DLCs that will be out by then".

 

That's some weird way to incite people to buy a game early... If 90% of the value of the game is worth 1 year of waiting, you don't value your game much then...

 

The industry statistics are overwhelmingly clear:  Sales of a given game peak in the first couple of weeks (frequently in the first couple of days) after release, and drop-off dramatically after that to a mere trickle at the six-month point.  DLC sales keep the revenue stream coming from players who ALREADY HAVE the game and liked it enough to put down more cash to get more game.  But the only thing that will get a significant number of players who did NOT buy the game when it came out to do so at that point is a "deal".

 

So yes, there are two classes of players/customers, with two different marketing/pricing strategies.  It isn't about EA "valuing" the game, it's about customers  valuing it.  And a year after release the average new customer values it at "90% off", while the average old customer (who valued it enough to buy any DLC at all) continues to value it higher.

 

Want the base game and DLC at "less than full retail"?  Simple:  Wait for the bundle/GOTY/Ultimate edition.

 

This is not new.  This is Business-101.  And if anyone thinks game development/publishing is all about the love, and not about the bottom line... They should go work for Obsidian (but check the compensation offer first.   ​)

[Zatche]

The problem is, is that there are now two classes of purchasers who are being treated differently.

You are charging people who already invested money in the game more money for the same exact product - the DLC - than those who couldn't be bothered to buy anything.

I understand the value of having been able to play the game for nearly a year - when the game was completely new, More often the topic of discussion, with less likelihood of being spoiled, and when the game was comparatively better for being new than games coming out now that have advanced even further. Ialso understand that BioWare is hoping to capture money from those who wouldn't have bought it at all.

But I draw the line when people are being charged different amounts for the same content, by the same seller, at the very same point in time. Other games, like Street Fighter for example, would charge $40 for a new edition for new customers but offer an upgrade for early adopters at $15. The early adopter still paid more, but does not feel quite so taken advantage of.

I paid well more than the people who waited, and i don't feel taken advantage of at all. It was frivolous to pay full retail price, but I knew that going in.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

You also don't need to increase a price to gouge a class of people when you are purposely offering the items at a Lower cost to others.

 

Anyone and everyone is able to buy the product at the lower price (even you). 

This is the EXACT OPPOSITE of "price gouging".

[Zatche]

So their message is "if you wait 1 year before buying the game, you get a 90% discount on the game if you buy the DLCs that will be out by then".

That's some weird way to incite people to buy a game early... If 90% of the value of the game is worth 1 year of waiting, you don't value your game much then...

Well, as long as there are enough players who get taken in enough to pay full retail by the new and exciting, the pricing strategy will remain effective.

[actionhero112]

People aren't asking for a discount on things they already bought, they're asking for the same discount on the DLC that the GOTY edition is offering.

 

And honestly I agree with them. Even though I've already bought all the DLC at full price.

 

It's scummy to offer a discount to new customers and snub your existing ones. Who do you think made the game a success in the first place? 

 

Lesson is that EA screws their customer base. Unless you really care about getting access to a game as soon as it comes out, just don't buy it. 

[Thandal N'Lyman]

Right, people are complaining because someone else can now pay less than they did for the same product.

 

Same thing happens all the time with many, if not most, retail products.  I paid US$2K for my custom-built computer 18 months ago.  Today I could buy the same one from the same company for around US$1.3K.  It would be absurd of me to demand a price break from the vendor on, say, additional RAM because now Joe Newguy can get the same rig with double the RAM (Special Offer! This week only!) at a lower price. 

 

The analogy isn't perfect, but the principle is the same.  Early purchasers pay more than later ones, and everyone can buy the product at the lower price if they want.  Just wait.  Or buy it again...

 

There are discount sales all the time.  People who bought before the sale aren't automatically entitled to anything just because there's a sale.

[London]

Right, people are complaining because someone else can now pay less than they did for the same product.

Same thing happens all the time with many, if not most, retail products. I paid US$2K for my custom-built computer 18 months ago. Today I could buy the same one from the same company for around US$1.3K. It would be absurd of me to demand a price break from the vendor on, say, additional RAM because now Joe Newguy can get the same rig with double the RAM (Special Offer! This week only!) at a lower price.

The analogy isn't perfect, but the principle is the same. Early purchasers pay more than later ones, and everyone can buy the product at the lower price if they want. Just wait. Or buy it again...

There are discount sales all the time. People who bought before the sale aren't automatically entitled to anything just because there's a sale.

This is where the point is lost, again. I don't care that I spent $70 on the special edition at launch. I do care that I am being charged $55 for DLC NOW at the very same time new customers are getting the same content sharply discounted.

I don't have the DLC. The new customer doesn't have the DLC. But BioWare thinks I should pay $55 for the DLC while a new customer is paying something less for the same product - though bundled with the original game I do not need to buy.

By pricing the entire bundle at $60, BioWare is clearly saying that the DLC is not worth $55 today. I would be a fool to pay this, and therefore buy nothing. But what they do get in return is a resentful fan. And for the next DA game the end result is now one fan who will also wait for sharp discounts, and the new customer who most likely will wait again for sharp discounts. It's a net loss.