247 réponses à ce sujet

[ivrognard]

Can a physical copy of DAI be transferred?

 

No. As i have explained before: both digital and retail releases are requiring Origin. And right now, retail for EA means an empty DVD case with an Origin code sticked to it (how the frag that is retail, it is beyond me, best example being C&C Ultimate Collection). If you have registered the game on your Origin account, you can't transfer the game to someone else, as that person won't be able to register the code on their account (the code being already in use on your account).

 

The only way to transfer a retail copy is you not registering the given code.

[Pallando]

I don't think that anyone's arguing that a Discount or an upgrade would be a bad thing. Go ahead and request it. At the very least, a discount on the individual DLCs will pop up eventually.

 

For the most part, we're arguing against the idea that the current prices are somehow unethical or unfair. Against the idea that old players deserve a discount on principal because non-early adopters have the GOTY option.

 

As it stands, if you want Descent and Trespasser enough to pay $15 for them, you can buy them. If not, you can wait for a similar sale that Jaws of Hakkon previously got.

 

 

It doesn't mean that at all. Price doesn't inherently equal value. It simply means you can get a better overall value per price ratio when you buy a bundle.

 

 

Ok. So why is it ok to propose a game+DLC bundle to new players and no DLC bundle to old players?

 

My problem with this sort of things is the same that I have with IAP and phone carriers: they have nice options for new customers, but once you're there, they have no interest in you whatsoever.

 

Why does buying the game and the DLCs in a bundle warrant a discount? It's not like you can buy the DLCs without the game anyway...

What's the message here when there's no DLC bundle for those who bought the game last year (or 3 months ago)?

 

For now, their message is this: 

"You don't have this game? Here have this bundle at a discounted price."

"Oh, you already have the game and would like to experience everything? Well, pay the full price or wait... No bundle for you."

 

My point is that I don't feel entitled to anything. That's their problem. I had hope that things would change and an upgrade would be available for early adopters, but if things don't change, I'll just wait 1 or 2 years before buying a game next time, as I usually do. I have more games than I could play in a lifetime already. 

But that would be in the publisher's interest to not turn away potential buyers. Just saying...

 

So from that point, why is that unreasonable to ask for an upgrade bundle for those who already own the game? 

 

 

True, but... so what?

 

 

I don't like to pay twice for the same thing.

[Lyrium Bosoms]

I'm from France. (Hence why I was never able to buy the Ultimate Edition of DAO...)

 

Spoils of Qunari/Avvar are 4.99€ each. 

Each of the 3 DLCs is 14.99€. 

Total is 54.95€.

 

GOTY is 59.99. Still, 5€ of difference isn't much. Especially if you add the Deluxe upgrade for those who only have the base game.

If you bought it last year and would like to try the whole experience, as it is proposed now to new players, you have to pay around 60€ more. 

 

So that would mean that the game has lost all its value in 1 year and only the DLCs are worth any money now, which doesn't explain why the base game is still 40€...

 

interesting. on my origin it's:

spoils = ~4€ (we're not using euros here tho, but that's more or less the price) each = 8€

3 DLCs = ~14€ each = 42€

so it's 50€ total. + ~10€ for deluxe upgrade = 60€

 

GOTY here is for only 47€. how does that even make sense?

 

But that means that the GOTY is a DLC bundle sale for you.

 

except, like I said earlier, having to buy the same thing twice is crap service. what was the point in buying the base game earlier if now I have to buy it again just so I'll pay less for everything? besides, DAI on origin is region locked, so I can only buy that in Polish/Russian. I bought the base game from a different site bc I wanted English version. even if I was fine with that bullcrap of buying the game again I'd be scared that buying it in Polish now would mess up my other base game or the DLCs from the "bundle". (idk how it all works so...)

[Zatche]

Ok. So why is it ok to propose a game+DLC bundle to new players and no DLC bundle to old players?

Why does buying the game and the DLCs in a bundle warrant a discount? It's not like you can buy the DLCs without the game anyway...
What's the message here when there's no DLC bundle for those who bought the game last year (or 3 months ago)?

For now, their message is this:
"You don't have this game? Here have this bundle at a discounted price."
"Oh, you already have the game and would like to experience everything? Well, pay the full price or wait... No bundle for you."

My point is that I don't feel entitled to anything. That's their problem. I had hope that things would change and an upgrade would be available for early adopters, but if things don't change, I'll just wait 1 or 2 years before buying a game next time, as I usually do. I have more games than I could play in a lifetime already.
But that would be in the publisher's interest to not turn away potential buyers. Just saying...

I can see how it might be an ineffective marketing/pricing strategy. And yes, waiting for GOTYs and other steep discount deals is always a good idea.

So from that point, why is that unreasonable to ask for an upgrade bundle for those who already own the game?

I don't think its unreasonable to ask. I said as much in the post you are quoting. I think its unreasonable to cry foul play if they don't end up providing it right away.

I don't like to pay twice for the same thing.

I have bought a game twice because I already had it, yet it came with a bundle that made its sequel and all its DLC much cheaper. It was a good deal, and I dont regret it.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

I bought the retail disc of DA:O upon release, then all the DLC (except "The One Which Must Not Be Named") when they were released, then bought the DA:UE retail disc because it was the cheapest way to get that last one.  No regrets about any of those purchases, even though I knew from the start that "patience is rewarded".  I got to play a great game, at a price I felt it was worth paying, without having to wait a year.

 

Others look at the same offer and think, "Nahhhh... Too much.  It'll go on sale someday."

 

We each make our own decision about the value of the game at a given time.  And some of us revisit that decision many times.  But it's our  decision.  No one is forcing anyone to buy a game.

[Pallando]

 

I can see how it might be an ineffective marketing/pricing strategy. And yes, waiting for GOTYs and other steep discount deals is always a good idea.


I don't think its unreasonable to ask. I said as much in the post you are quoting. I think its unreasonable to cry foul play if they don't end up providing it right away.


I have bought a game twice because I already had it, yet it came with a bundle that made its sequel and all its DLC much cheaper. It was a good deal, and I dont regret it.

 

I did buy a game twice too, because the bundle was cheaper and more practical.

But I still find it "ugly" to do it like that.

With digital stores, publishers tend to enforce license restrictions (no reselling, tied to 1 account, ...), so I don't see why this should be a 1-way relationship. 

If they can control accounts that precisely, they should offer proper upgrade options. 

 

I will go back to my habit of waiting before buying. Less bugs and more content for the same price. 

But they really should think about upgrade options. 

 

I bought the retail disc of DA:O upon release, then all the DLC (except "The One Which Must Not Be Named") when they were released, then bought the DA:UE retail disc because it was the cheapest way to get that last one.  No regrets about any of those purchases, even though I knew from the start that "patience is rewarded".  I got to play a great game, at a price I felt it was worth paying, without having to wait a year.

 

Others look at the same offer and think, "Nahhhh... Too much.  It'll go on sale someday."

 

We each make our own decision about the value of the game at a given time.  And some of us revisit that decision many times.  But it's our  decision.  No one is forcing anyone to buy a game.

 

I bought DA:O in December 2010, and I still am frustrated that I never could buy the ******* UE. I've seen it on sales numerous times since then but it's unavailable in my country for I don't know what reason: each DLC is available, but they never go on sale. So I never experienced Return to Ostagar or Golems of Amgarrak. 

 

Anyway, with all the "anti-piracy" crap we've had to deal with in the last decade (DRM and so on), I still don't like to buy twice a license to companies who only enforce restrictions on legit customers (pirates never get bothered by these). Another reason is that EA (among others) has actively been trying to destroy the second-hand market of games. So if they consider that 1 person has 1 license, why should I be forced to buy a second one if I want to get a bundle of what I'm missing from a game?

It's not clean... 

And I have the same problem with Steam when it comes to games for which you don't get a gift copy when you re-buy it. It's ugly.

[AlanC9]

No. As i have explained before: both digital and retail releases are requiring Origin. And right now, retail for EA means an empty DVD case with an Origin code sticked to it (how the frag that is retail, it is beyond me, best example being C&C Ultimate Collection). If you have registered the game on your Origin account, you can't transfer the game to someone else, as that person won't be able to register the code on their account (the code being already in use on your account).
 
The only way to transfer a retail copy is you not registering the given code.

Thanks. Yea, I thought that's how it worked, which is why I didn't understand what Realmzmaster was getting at. The only difference between DD and non-DD is is how the bits get into your system.

I can see why they just put a code in a box. The industry isn't quite ready to take the retail channel out back and shoot it, but manufacturing a disc is an expense they don't need.

[GithCheater]

I have bought a game twice because I already had it, yet it came with a bundle that made its sequel and all its DLC much cheaper. It was a good deal, and I dont regret it.

 

That does not work for those who already bought some DLC.

[Zatche]

That does not work for those who already bought some DLC.

Huh? Why is it supposed to?

[LostScout61]

The retail version of Dragon Age Inquisition comes with 4 install DVD's.  I know because I have it.  It greatly speeds up the first time install of the game (doesn't help at all with the patches).  It is tied to Origin and that account is not transferable.  If people are getting Retail versions with only an Origin code there seems to be something fishy going on, or perhaps some retailers are selling people the digital deluxe version out of a box.

[Realmzmaster]

Thanks. Yea, I thought that's how it worked, which is why I didn't understand what Realmzmaster was getting at. The only difference between DD and non-DD is is how the bits get into your system.

I can see why they just put a code in a box. The industry isn't quite ready to take the retail channel out back and shoot it, but manufacturing a disc is an expense they don't need.

 

The Question is does the retail box for the GOTY edition only have one code for the entire bundle or does each separate piece  (main game and dlc) have its own code. If each piece has its own code then the base game code can be given to someone else (and that person can create a Origin account and redeem that code. Getting to experience the base game)  since the gamer (who purchase the GOTY edition) already has the base game. The gamer can simply redeem the codes for the dlc.

 

Now if the entire bundle has only one code then that is a different story.

 

I could be wrong but I thought the Retail box   GOTY has disks for the base and redeem codes for the dlc.

[Majestic Jazz]

Thats true, and thats why i'm saying it would be good for them to get some faith and good will back so people dont avoid their products altogether. If Bioware didnt release DA2 with so much recycled junk zones and release DA:I on pc in a poor state, they would have more of it. As it is now the quality of their products feels to be going down hill. EA could offer dlc cheaper or have the option to upgrade and still make money they wouldn't otherwise get. With current DLC prices and the price for the deluxe version that offered pretty bad digital content, it doesnt seem like EA has pricing that feels worth it. But to be honest I have had no real faith in EA to begin with. They are notorious for gathering up good IP's and seeing the products go to crap and charging a ton in dlc and micropay for content. Having a good user base is how they keep everyone happy. Looking at CD Project Red and how they handled dlc, content fixes/upgrades in all the Witcher titles feels so much better. Their minor dlc is free and the upcoming dlc is rumored to be 10-20 hours at 10 dollars. Their pricing seems better and while I cant judge the content yet, i have much more faith their product will be worth it. At this rate I see Bioware continuing a downward spiral while better companies take its place.

If anything this will be the downfall of Bioware, not the quality of their games. Look at Bethesda and CDPR. You may not like their games but they do better PR than Bioware which is why TW3 for example has a strong, loyal, and vocal fanbase. They have a sense that CDPR is out for the interest of the fans and not $$$. While that may or may not be true, CDPR and Bethesda does a better job at masking that through superior PR. Just think of the 8 weeks of "free dlc" from CDPR for TW3 and the "love letter" to the fans that came packaged with TW3.



Here is what they wrote to fans after TW3 reached a milestone of 6 million copies sold:

Hey Gamers!

Time does fly! These few months since launch passed faster than you can say potestaquisitor. We’ve been hard at work delivering you new content, fixing what needed to be fixed, and secretly plotting how to rock this boat we call the RPG genre even more. We’ve just concluded our shareholder conference where we announced that The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt family got a bit bigger — we sold over 6 million copies of the game in six weeks since launch. Worry not, I won’t discuss any financial stuff here. I would, however, like to give you some insight on what that means to us as game creators.

One could think we have six million reasons to be happy and that’s it. We do, but that number is also a big responsibility and I want everyone to know that we, as a studio, realize that. For us, all your high praise, all the positive reviews, are also an obligation — we’ve made a really good game but there’s still a long road ahead of us. Everyone here in CD PROJEKT RED is really attached to their work and how you, the gamers, perceive it. RED is full of artists, wild dreamers and people crazy about what they do (and sometimes just plain crazy). We lose sleep over that particular colour the sun has when it sets over Velen, and argue over arranging the furniture in a house the majority of gamers will probably never see. We’re not the kind of people who are easily satisfied and we always strive for more. I’d like you to know that.

Yes, six million copies is a great achievement for a company making RPGs, but this business is not only about that. If our games are a gallery of sound, picture and text – you are the visitors of this gallery. To an artist, there’s no sweeter sight than people enjoying their work. That’s why, in the name of all the devs in the studio, I’d like to say thanks to each and every one of you.

Thanks!

Adam Badowski,
Head of Studio
CD PROJEKT RED

Bioware used to have the best PR and that was the days before EA back when marketing people, devs, and even Chris Priestly used to post here often.

So yeah, forward starting with MEA, Bioware needs to gain their community goodwill back cause other devs are doing a better job at it and it could effect Bioware's finances.

[Elhanan]

Yes; a letter is what will unravel loyalty to Bioware, not that anything has been written by them to the fans over the years; nor the high standards of service and QA. The apple-pickle-lips is indeed upon us.

In other news, 'loyalty' discovered to mean different things to different folks....
 

[Majestic Jazz]

Yes; a letter is what will unravel loyalty to Bioware, not that anything has been written by them to the fans over the years; nor the high standards of service and QA. The apple-pickle-lips is indeed upon us.

In other news, 'loyalty' discovered to mean different things to different folks....
 

 

:::SIGH:::

 

Way to evade the point by adding a strawman statement.

 

I am not saying that CDPR has great loyalty because of a letter that came packaged into a game. No, I am simply saying that the letter was an example of MANY OTHER acts that CDPR does in order to establish a personal connection with their community.

 

Another example is how they handle people who used exploits in the game before patching. Just to catch you up to speed, when TW3 was released there was an exploit that allowed gamers to endlessly buy pearls, and resell them at crazy prices to gain a quick buck. Eventually CDPR caught up to our antics and in a patch, got rid of the exploit. However, it has been discovered that in the new expansion for TW3, Hearts of Stone, CDPR got their last laughs by adding in a tax collector to collect $1000 from those who took act in this exploit. Now I know it isn't a game changer or anything, but it is a nice touch on how CDPR remains to establish goodwill with their fans by adding in a little humor gameplay wise.

 

Another example was when gamers complained about how CDPR developed TW3 in which it seemed liked the Devs were forcing players to romance Yennifer and that the romance with Triss wasn't as developed as it was for Yennifer. Instead of taking this as an attack on their "creative art" like Bioware did with ME3 when people attacked how they handled the ending, CDPR simply came out in a humble manner and aknowledged this shortcoming and promised to fix this in a later patch by adding more scenes/dialog for players pursuing the Triss romance.

 

So it is little small acts like this and the letter that adds up to a large level of respect that CDPR fans have for the company. Bethesda is in the same boat. At the end of the day, CDPR and Bethesda cares about the $$$$$$ but through the way they speak to their fans and the fequency/methods they do so in speaks volumes and is why Bethesda and CDPR seems to have a strong fanbase whereas the Bioware fanbase while strong, has many cracks and levels of distrust, largely because of the looming EA presence. 

 

But I doubt you will see that because Bioware is still celebrating their 130+ GOTY awards that they got from DAI......

[Elhanan]

And Bioware has done much the same for a longer period of time. Also fixed exploits, and included Easter Eggs to such in later content. And Bioware released free DLC for ME3, I believe. Also contests, giveaways, streaming, etc.

Bias and prejudice make poor lenses for an objective POV....

[AlanC9]

The Question is does the retail box for the GOTY edition only have one code for the entire bundle or does each separate piece  (main game and dlc) have its own code. If each piece has its own code then the base game code can be given to someone else (and that person can create a Origin account and redeem that code. Getting to experience the base game)  since the gamer (who purchase the GOTY edition) already has the base game. The gamer can simply redeem the codes for the dlc.
 
Now if the entire bundle has only one code then that is a different story.
 
I could be wrong but I thought the Retail box   GOTYhas disks for the base and redeem codes for the dlc.

OK, now I get it. But I haven't seen any DAI discs with codes on sale yet.

[Realmzmaster]

OK, now I get it. But I haven't seen any DAI discs with codes on sale yet.

 

The original retail physical version of Inquisition came on four disks with the product code. I assume that the GOTY retail physical version has the same four disks for the base game and product code and there are redeem codes for the dlc so the dlc can be downloaded. That way Bioware/EA does not have to increase the disk count in the GOTY to account for the dlc.

[Elhanan]

The original retail physical version of Inquisition came on four disks with the product code. I assume that the GOTY retail physical version has the same four disks for the base game and product code and there are redeem codes for the dlc so the dlc can be downloaded. That way Bioware/EA does not have to increase the disk count in the GOTY to account for the dlc.

The assumption may not be exactly correct, as I rather expect new disks that are fully patched, based on similar prior editions. But DLC seems to come with codes as a rule.

[Majestic Jazz]

And Bioware has done much the same for a longer period of time. Also fixed exploits, and included Easter Eggs to such in later content. And Bioware released free DLC for ME3, I believe. Also contests, giveaways, streaming, etc.

Bias and prejudice make poor lenses for an objective POV....

 

Yeah, when Bioware released the free extended cut, they did so out of spite. Remember, prior to that they were endlessly defending their stance as "artistic freedom". Shall I give you the quote on what Casey Hudson said?

 

When fans complained about a move in TW3, CDPR did not try to defend themselves, they just acknowledged the shortcoming and took action.

[Elhanan]

Yeah, when Bioware released the free extended cut, they did so out of spite. Remember, prior to that they were endlessly defending their stance as "artistic freedom". Shall I give you the quote on what Casey Hudson said?
 
When fans complained about a move in TW3, CDPR did not try to defend themselves, they just acknowledged the shortcoming and took action.

This is stated like it matters somehow.

I cannot judge the quality of CDPR games as I have yet to play any of them; not alluring enough for me thus far. However, I am a fan of GOG, and hope that the quality seen there is reflected in their games, and will be as enjoyable as the Bioware games have been this past couple of decades.

Passing note: if one does not care to defend one's product, still do not see how that is a good thing....

[Majestic Jazz]

This is stated like it matters somehow.

I cannot judge the quality of CDPR games as I have yet to play any of them; not alluring enough for me thus far. However, I am a fan of GOG, and hope that the quality seen there is reflected in their games, and will be as enjoyable as the Bioware games have been this past couple of decades.

Passing note: if one does not care to defend one's product, still do not see how that is a good thing....

 

Furthermore, it goes beyond just Mass Effect 3. Remember ME: Deception? Remember all the lore inconsistencies associated with that novel? Remember how Bioware said that this would be fixed but never was? Again, another example of poor Bioware PR. It was this negative momentum that carried over to Mass Effect 3.  

[Majestic Jazz]

Oh and then there was this. Again, another example of poor Bioware PR.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

<snip>
However, I am a fan of GOG, and hope that the quality seen there is reflected in their games, and will be as enjoyable as the Bioware games have been this past couple of decades.

 

You do know that GOG doesn't develop any games itself, right?  They are owned by CDPR, but they are NOT a studio.

[Shechinah]

Oh and then there was this. Again, another example of poor Bioware PR.

 

And here's a different article about the alleged rant but done in a professional fashion and without the childish title; http://www.eurogamer...story-structure

 

Note: If the link in question appears broken then the article linked by Majestic Jazz contains a link to the article which is the "great offense" line.
 

[AlanC9]

The original retail physical version of Inquisition came on four disks with the product code. I assume that the GOTY retail physical version has the same four disks for the base game and product code and there are redeem codes for the dlc so the dlc can be downloaded. That way Bioware/EA does not have to increase the disk count in the GOTY to account for the dlc.

The whole question becomes how the activation code for the GOTY works, then. We need to talk to someone who actually bought the thing.

I'd be kind of surprised if they were separate codes. The GOTY would put a bunch of used base games into the market if they were separate, and it looks to me like EA figures they can have all the sales at that price point for themselves.