392 réponses à ce sujet

[FKA_Servo]

Because the alternative is me not purchasing the game.

 

This is a huge loss.

[BabyPuncher]

If we're being consistent, neither the forced Aria kiss nor the Scary Gay version should be acceptable, or both should.

 

No to idiotic toggles.

 

That's only consistent if we have some ridiculous fixation that everyone needs to be treated 'equally.'

 

Why should Aria not be acceptable?

 

Nobody complained about it. There was no outrage. There was nobody screaming about consent. Nobody even took an issue with it as far I can tell. It was content that players were perfectly fine with.

 

People are adults, they have a right to be around people they enjoy and approve of. Including people whose behavior can be spontaneous. Both in fiction and in real life.

[Puddi III]

That's only consistent if we have some fixation that everyone needs to be treated 'equally.'

 

 And what a crazy idea that would be, huh?

[BabyPuncher]

It would be. It's beyond crazy. It's Orwellian insanity. Completely unjustifiable intellectual and moral idiocy.

 

Like Big Brother. It's not enough to tolerate certain people. You are morally obligated to love them."

 

Or alternatively, lobotomize yourself and not love anyone.

 

And so we see it here. You are obligated to start enjoying gay men forcefully kissing you, or obligated to not enjoy characters you desire doing things you like. This is what 'equality' demands.

[SinisterSquash]

This is unrelated to the above, but are straight male players uncomfortable with the presence of two random background npcs  engaged in this sort of close relationship if...

 

 

 

1) It is two alien males

 

2) It is two human males

 

3) It is a human male and an alien male

 

4) It is a human female and an alien male

 

Because I thought it was awkward the absence of the above, especially with #4, and considering all other presentations in game where there were alien females with human males, alien females with alien males, or alien females with human females.

 

I think the LotSb dlc had a video featuring the possibility of #3.

 

As a straight female I hope to see #4 more frequently on display in the background with possible chatter, particularly male quarian/ human female or male drell/ human female.

 

I just hope the exclusion wasn't because certain demographics were offended. That would be rather odd. Women can't enjoy male alien companionship outside of the protagonist. And again why did we never see #4 in the trilogy...Veetor would have totally hooked up with some human hotties on Freedom's Progress, he probably would have had any pick he wanted; cute, exotic, smart fellow like him.

[Urdnot Shasta McNasty]

As far as I can tell, it isn't, and we weren't. I really wonder what it's like inside his head.
 
In other news, David continues to justify his spot on everybody's ignore list.

He's a fool. We should eat him.

[Shechinah]

...

 

I would prefer that they do away with a character forcibly kissing the player unless they provide the player an interupt or responses that can acknowledge how the player and their character may feel about it. It may fit with Aria's character to take that approach but the reaction Shepard has to said approach is one that would not fit with quite a few of my characters and I personally dislike it and not because it involves a character I dislike.

 

I genuinely dislike scenes where they have a character violate your personal space without you and your character being able to react to it. It's one thing when your character is retrained and unable to respond and another when they are not and should be able to respond. It can be downright uncomfortable in some scenes depending on who you are and there is a double standard that I see applied. I see it as being because the character is female, not because they may be homosexual.

 

Aria's aforementioned scene can be uncomfortable for people regardless of their sexualities and it can be for the same reasons. 

 

I also dislike mandatory hugs with a set reaction like Liara's introduction scene on Ilium In Mass Effect 2.   

[Puddi III]

And so we see it here. You are obligated to start enjoying gay men forcefully kissing you, or obligated to not enjoy characters you desire doing things you like. This is what 'equality' demands.

 

You are only obligated to deal with it if they do so, and only if you are willing to say gay men and straight women should deal with it when Aria does so. That's just the golden rule, I dunno what silliness you're on about bruh.

 

[BabyPuncher]

I have no problem at all with fiction catering to gay men and women or other minorities. Media that has gay men forcefully kissing the player character or whatever. I wouldn't be interested in it myself, obviously.

 

But you see, no, it's not the 'Golden Rule. at all' Because I don't make moronic accusations that gay people who enjoy fiction that has gay men doing such things but not other characters (in other words, fiction that treats groups unequally) are bigots or prejudiced or 'heterophobic' or any idiocy of the sort. I accept there's nothing at all wrong with them enjoying their fiction that treats groups very, very unequally.

[Puddi III]

 

For that comparison to work, you must be implying Mass Effect is the province of straight men.

 

Though its track record may somewhat back that up, hopefully they will improve in the new galaxy.

[Wulfram]

I don't think it would be a bad thing if you could select an established romantic reputation. If Shepard was gay it seems like people might well know about it, and thus maybe people of the opposite sex would be less likely to think that being nice meant they were romantically interested. At least, if they're in the Alliance - someone like Liara wouldn't be tuned into the scuttlebutt.

Probably too much work to do properly, though.

[FKA_Servo]

But you see, no, it's not the 'Golden Rule. at all' Because I don't make moronic accusations that gay people who enjoy fiction that has gay men doing such things but not other characters (in other words, fiction that treats groups unequally) are bigots or prejudiced or 'heterophobic' or any idiocy of the sort. I accept there's nothing at all wrong with them enjoying their fiction that treats groups very, very unequally.

 

Is it overly optimistic of me to hope that the reason you don't do this is because you recognize that context exists?

 

...Probably.

 

In any case, you're not obligated to do a single thing. You are free to metagame away all the stuff you don't like. You can just put up with the stuff you don't like to get to the stuff you do like. You are, as you said, free to pass on the game if it's not sufficiently Heroic^tm.  There are options that are open to you.

[AlanC9]

Well gee, I don't know. You tell me. How many of the people on the topic have some sort of neurotic fixation or another that gay men and other minorities are obligated to be treated and perceived 'equally'? If many of them do, it's very related. There's already an implicit inequality in absolutely nobody suggesting a 'straight toggle' switch.

Umm... yeah, because the other side of the issue is the one proposing toggles. All this means is that a certain bad idea is only appealing to the people on one side of this issue. Sometimes the people on one side of an issue are just wrong. This concept is hardly unfamiliar to you.
 

As for acceptable conduct - well, the female character obviously has to be attractive. Players aren't going to be happy about being forcefully kissed by a hag. (Another obvious inequality deliberately enforced by pretty much all creators of fiction in existence.) Do you need me to tell you this? You should know how people react to fiction.

So this is simply an audience-acceptance issue, rather than any kind of discussion of morality? OK. But why are you bringing it up? Bio hasn't done this, and likely won't. If Bio thinks you're right about the audience they're not going to do this anyway, toggle or no.

Again, why did you bring up gay males forcibly kissing the PC? Is this what you think the people asking for a toggle are worrying about? Really?

[AlanC9]

I don't think it would be a bad thing if you could select an established romantic reputation. If Shepard was gay it seems like people might well know about it, and thus maybe people of the opposite sex would be less likely to think that being nice meant they were romantically interested. At least, if they're in the Alliance - someone like Liara wouldn't be tuned into the scuttlebutt.

Probably too much work to do properly, though.

Agreed. If we're going to start establishing more detailed reputational stuff --like ME1 background except with much more content and reactivity -- the PC's sexuality would be way down on my priority list.

[KaiserShep]

And what if the suggestion doesn't go beyond that, then? A toggle switch that removes explicit 'gay content' but leaves in dialogue that modestly brings it up?

It would still be stupid and pointless. There's no such thing as getting ninja'd into sex in the game, so why would there be a switch to block content when that content is already gated by prompts for the player? It seems less like a real feature and more of a gesture that this particular content warrants an actual player block for some odd reason.

[BabyPuncher]

It would still be stupid and pointless. There's no such thing as getting ninja'd into sex in the game, so why would there be a switch to block content when that content is already gated by prompts for the player? It seems less like a real feature and more of a gesture that this particular content warrants an actual player block for some odd reason.

 

Have you just not been paying attention at all?

 

No, the player does not get 'ninja'd' into sex scenes (well, aside from getting 'ninja'd' into sleeping with the consort in ME 1...and it's rather heavily implied Shepard is 'ninja'd into sleeping with Javik at the Citadel party with no LI...but I'll very graciously ignore those two examples for you) but there are scenes of, as I said, Aria forcefully kissing the player. I know Gianna Parasinni kisses at least a male Shepard on the cheek without the player's input. I think Shiala might have something similar if you don't have a love interest.

 

No, those aren't sex scenes, but those examples are still way, way, way over the line for a gay male if they were given 'equal' roles. All of that content would infuriate me if a male character did the same thing with the same dialogue and the same animations. Or does the word 'equal' have some special definition for you that I'm not aware of?

[Cyonan]

Kissing somebody on the cheek is "way over the line"?

 

You do realize that is not actually a sexual thing, right?

[sandalisthemaker]

Have you just not been paying attention at all?

 

No, the player does not get 'ninja'd' into sex scenes (well, aside from getting 'ninja'd' into sleeping with the consort in ME 1...and it's rather heavily implied Shepard is 'ninja'd into sleeping with Javik at the Citadel party with no LI...but I'll very graciously ignore those two examples for you) but there are scenes of, as I said, Aria forcefully kissing the player. I know Gianna Parasinni kisses at least a male Shepard on the cheek without the player's input. I think Shiala might have something similar if you don't have a love interest.

 

No, those aren't sex scenes, but those examples are still way, way, way over the line for a gay male if they were given 'equal' roles. All of that content would infuriate me if a male character did the same thing with the same dialogue and the same animations. Or does the word 'equal' have some special definition for you that I'm not aware of?

 

What if he did it with different dialogue and different animations.

[BabyPuncher]

Oh yes. A male character kissing the protagonist on the cheek like Parasini does without the player's input? Not acceptable at all.

[sandalisthemaker]

Oh yes. A male character kissing the protagonist on the cheek like Parasini does without the player's input? Not acceptable at all.

 

 

You do realize that you are not the only person on this planet consuming this media right? 

[AresKeith]

You do realize that you are not the only person on this planet consuming this media right? 

 

Don't forget your talking to David

[Cyonan]

Oh yes. A male character kissing the protagonist on the cheek like Parasini does without the player's input? Not acceptable at all.

 

It would be seen as weird because the cultural custom in many places where Mass Effect will be getting played is for two men to shake hands. When women are involved, it's either a friendly hug or a kiss on the cheek.

 

If you want it to be more publically accepted for a man to kiss a male "not shepard" on the cheek in Andromeda, feel free to try and change society.

 

Good luck with that.

 

It would however, still not be a sexual thing even if a lot of homophobes would act like it is.

[Ahglock]

This is unrelated to the above, but are straight male players uncomfortable with the presence of two random background npcs  engaged in this sort of close relationship if...

 

 

 

1) It is two alien males

 

2) It is two human males

 

3) It is a human male and an alien male

 

4) It is a human female and an alien male

 

Because I thought it was awkward the absence of the above, especially with #4, and considering all other presentations in game where there were alien females with human males, alien females with alien males, or alien females with human females.

 

I think the LotSb dlc had a video featuring the possibility of #3.

 

As a straight female I hope to see #4 more frequently on display in the background with possible chatter, particularly male quarian/ human female or male drell/ human female.

 

I just hope the exclusion wasn't because certain demographics were offended. That would be rather odd. Women can't enjoy male alien companionship outside of the protagonist. And again why did we never see #4 in the trilogy...Veetor would have totally hooked up with some human hotties on Freedom's Progress, he probably would have had any pick he wanted; cute, exotic, smart fellow like him.

 

 

Given how sparsely and bizarrely populated the world is I wouldn't find it awkward in the slightest. Now if the background was more like an assassins creed game yeah it might start looking weird.  I mean geeze the just finally started showing female non-humans in ME3 I'm guessing a female turian should show up in setting a bit more often than a krogan/turian romance or whatever.  Though honestly I guess when I walk downtown if I'm not in an area where people are going on dates the vast majority of people are solo or grouped in a way I couldn't tell if they are just friends,  co-workers or in a relationship.  There just weren't that many couples overall, so hitting every demographic when they have so few couple overall and are just finally getting to the point where they add a few aliens of the opposite gender would be almost weird on a priority scale. 

[KaiserShep]

Have you just not been paying attention at all?

 

No, the player does not get 'ninja'd' into sex scenes (well, aside from getting 'ninja'd' into sleeping with the consort in ME 1...and it's rather heavily implied Shepard is 'ninja'd into sleeping with Javik at the Citadel party with no LI...but I'll very graciously ignore those two examples for you) but there are scenes of, as I said, Aria forcefully kissing the player. I know Gianna Parasinni kisses at least a male Shepard on the cheek without the player's input. I think Shiala might have something similar if you don't have a love interest.

 

No, those aren't sex scenes, but those examples are still way, way, way over the line for a gay male if they were given 'equal' roles. All of that content would infuriate me if a male character did the same thing with the same dialogue and the same animations. Or does the word 'equal' have some special definition for you that I'm not aware of?

 

That's not really the same issue though. This has little to do with this toggle and more to do with how troublesome it is to have so much of the character interaction be on autopilot. Seems to me that the best solution would be to simply not write in these scenes, at least not without having dialogue that we can select to engage in it, like flirt lines, or simply give us the option to reject before it happens.  This was never really a problem in any of the DA games, or ME1. Like, in Origins, high approval Leliana will start making coy small talk with the Warden as to be somewhat flirty, and you can shut it down. 

[BabyPuncher]

And why would you not write in these scenes?

 

I like those scenes. Well, I like Parasini giving Shepard a kiss. It's sweet.

 

As I said on the top of the page, has anyone complained about those scenes? Has there been any outrages over 'consent'? Nope. Those scenes were perfectly accepted. Nobody complained about how their character was compromised by getting kissed me Aria.