392 réponses à ce sujet

[straykat]

I've heard much of that dude's posts, and yet... I've never managed to read much of it. I just judge it in the most shallow way. Sorry.

[GoldenGail3]

No, not really. It's not selfish to want certain characters in video games that can be romanced be a certain sexaulity/ or is biseuzal, gay, lesbian, straight. It's what makes the game fun, and enjoyable.

[Pasquale1234]

Again, just to clarify, there were not only bisexual people in DA2.  Your party of 9 characters (including both Hawke twins) had:
 
3 straight people - Aveline, Varric, and Sebastian

I don't recall any of the above ever having stated their sexuality. Did I miss something?

Apparent sexuality =/= actual sexuality.

[AlanC9]

In that sense a character has no actual sexuality. All we'll ever get is the apparent sexuality.

[Natureguy85]

On the discussion of the Parasini kiss and other such scenes, and whether it is or isn't acceptable if it were a male, two things need to be kept in mind.

 

1) Based on the set up dialogue, Parasini's kiss was sexual. It wasn't a simple greeting/goodbye as is used in some cultures. So drop that excuse.

 

2) I don't know what they will do for the new game or series, but Shepard was a far more defined character than was the Warden. People need to get beyond the idea that they determine everything about Shepard.

 

 

and now they know their fanbase will want to bang anything and everything.

 

 

Just recall the complaints about not being able to romance Bethany.

[Pasquale1234]

In that sense a character has no actual sexuality. All we'll ever get is the apparent sexuality.

For most of us, that is also true of the vast majority of people you meet IRL.

Of all the people you meet / know, how many of them have ever actually come out and stated their sexuality? I'd guess very few.

Which is why the arguments against all bi or pan LIs, "playersexual" LIs, etc. based on some notion that sexuality defines character are nonsense.

[Natureguy85]

Which is why the arguments against all bi or pan LIs, "playersexual" LIs, etc. based on some notion that sexuality defines character are nonsense.

 

And yet most people's descriptions of what LI's they want focus on gender and orientation. I was pleasantly surprised by how many posts actually detailed characters in one, but there were still many that didn't.

[Pasquale1234]

And yet most people's descriptions of what LI's they want focus on gender and orientation. I was pleasantly surprised by how many posts actually detailed characters in one, but there were still many that didn't.

That's because they've learned that the character they want to romance might be gated from them. That happens much less when LIs are not gender gated.

[Natureguy85]

That's because they've learned that the character they want to romance might be gated from them. That happens much less when LIs are not gender gated.

 

But they often don't describe the character, or at least not much, which is my point. I'm interested in good characters and won't get too bent out of shape if one I like isn't available for my fake romance. It's not really any different from them simply not being interested or available, like Aveline in DA2. If they are a full character, they will have certain preferences. These options are there to promote replayability anyway.  They want you o load up another character to access the different content.

[DebatableBubble]

Again, just to clarify, there were not only bisexual people in DA2.  Your party of 9 characters (including both Hawke twins) had:
 
3 straight people - Aveline, Varric, and Sebastian
4 bisexual people - Anders, Isabela, Merrill, and Fenris
2 people with unknown sexuality - Carver and Bethany (Carver is not gay because he shows interest in female characters; Not sure about Bethany)
 
It's not nearly as skewed as people make it.  Even amongst the LI's, not all of the characters are bisexual.

Bethany has a crush on Seb.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Bethany has a crush on Seb.

Bethany was curious about women in her conversation with Isabela too, id say is slightly sexually bi-curious

[Kierro Ren]

Big, smart, words. From such a small, smart, guy.

 

Spoiler

[JamieCOTC]

To want? No.

[SnakeCode]

Again, just to clarify, there were not only bisexual people in DA2.  Your party of 9 characters (including both Hawke twins) had:

 

3 straight people - Aveline, Varric, and Sebastian

4 bisexual people - Anders, Isabela, Merrill, and Fenris

2 people with unknown sexuality - Carver and Bethany (Carver is not gay because he shows interest in female characters; Not sure about Bethany)

 

It's not nearly as skewed as people make it.  Even amongst the LI's, not all of the characters are bisexual.

 

You can only kiss Aveline as a woman. I don't think anyone can claim she's straight with any certainty.

[Seboist]

 

Just recall the complaints about not being able to romance Bethany.

 

Which speaks volumes of the quality of the other two waifus.

[Natureguy85]

Which speaks volumes of the quality of the other two waifus.

 

Or lack thereof

[9TailsFox]

You can only kiss Aveline as a woman. I don't think anyone can claim she's straight with any certainty.

It's same as Anders in awakening he talks only about women everyone who play would automatically think he is straight. We have no facts supporting or denying that Aveline, Varric, and Sebastian is straight.

[KaiserShep]

Which speaks volumes of the quality of the other two waifus.

Not necessarily. Regardless of anything, Bethany is still a younger, attractive follower that is generally soft-spoken. No matter the quality of the other companions, that she's restricted as a love interest would probably still get complaints for the very fact that she still exists. 

[Fredward]

Which speaks volumes of the quality of the other two waifus.

 

Or that people really like incest.

[Seboist]

Or that people really like incest.

 

Given how the game fails at creating any meaningful family relation between the PC and her(or the other hawkes) that the player should give a damn about, i doubt it. She's just an attractive dame that isn't as obnoxious as pirate skank and the jail bait looking crazy elf.

[EpicNewb]

It'd be selfish if there's more homosex romances than hetero

[daveliam]

It'd be selfish if there's more homosex romances than hetero

 

There has never been a game where there has been more "homosex romances" than hetero ones so I think you don't need to worry about that.

[CuriousArtemis]

And yet most people's descriptions of what LI's they want focus on gender and orientation. I was pleasantly surprised by how many posts actually detailed characters in one, but there were still many that didn't.

 

This actually annoys me; a vast majority of people define their ideal character as "straight." Why? Would making the character bi ruin him/her for them? It just blows my mind. Apparently making the character unavailable to other players (but not to you!) makes the character more "real." Bite me. 

 

I'm interested in good characters and won't get too bent out of shape if one I like isn't available for my fake romance.

 

Yeah except if you play a gay or lesbian character you usually have only two or sometimes even one to choose from. So you're more likely to be SOL than a person playing a straight or bi character. And if you really enjoy the romance aspect of these games (no more heinous a crime than enjoying romance novels as well as science fiction novels) that is a pretty big bummer.

 

Tbh I've never gotten too bent out of shape about a character not being available to mine (with the obvious exception of Cullen who I hoped and prayed for for years ); it was usually, "Wow... I really don't like either of these guys/that guy. Guess I will force myself to go through a romance instead of staying single." Which truly does dampen my enjoyment of the game. And damn it if these games aren't sometimes the only bright spot in my life so it sucks when that happens lol

 

It's same as Anders in awakening he talks only about women everyone who play would automatically think he is straight. We have no facts supporting or denying that Aveline, Varric, and Sebastian is straight.

 

To me he was pretty flirtatious all around. I think he flirted with Nate a bit.

 

But after the massive backlash against Anders (mostly stemming from OMG A GAY MAN HIT ON ME reactions) I don't think they will ever make a character who "seemed" straight "turn" bi in future games again.

 

Funny how people didn't lose their sh!t over Kaidan being available to men in ME3. So sad how he became less real in that third game... 

 

There has never been a game where there has been more "homosex romances" than hetero ones so I think you don't need to worry about that.

 

But Dave you don't know about that time I turned everyone in my sims town male   

[Natureguy85]

This actually annoys me; a vast majority of people define their ideal character as "straight." Why? Would making the character bi ruin him/her for them? It just blows my mind. Apparently making the character unavailable to other players (but not to you!) makes the character more "real." Bite me. 

 

 

Yeah except if you play a gay or lesbian character you usually have only two or sometimes even one to choose from. So you're more likely to be SOL than a person playing a straight or bi character. And if you really enjoy the romance aspect of these games (no more heinous a crime than enjoying romance novels as well as science fiction novels) that is a pretty big bummer.

 

Tbh I've never gotten too bent out of shape about a character not being available to mine (with the obvious exception of Cullen who I hoped and prayed for for years ); it was usually, "Wow... I really don't like either of these guys/that guy. Guess I will force myself to go through a romance instead of staying single." Which truly does dampen my enjoyment of the game. And damn it if these games aren't sometimes the only bright spot in my life so it sucks when that happens lol

 

 

I don't know that it's a vast majority, but a vast majority of real people are straight, so it makes some sense. I see all sorts in that other thread, including individuals posting multiple characters. It's not necessarily that a character being bi would "ruin" the character, it's that the particular character is straight (or whatever else) just because. You have to decide if you want a world of interesting, varied people or if everyone should be bi so you can have your pretend romance with any or all of them?

 

Also, the problem with the romance novel analogy and with your "these games are the bright spot in my life" comment is that the romance is a side story to the main one. When you pick up a romance novel, you are looking for a story about romance. This is more akin to discussing the romance between the characters in an action movie or spy thriller.

 

 

To me he was pretty flirtatious all around. I think he flirted with Nate a bit.

 

But after the massive backlash against Anders (mostly stemming from OMG A GAY MAN HIT ON ME reactions) I don't think they will ever make a character who "seemed" straight "turn" bi in future games again.

 

Funny how people didn't lose their sh!t over Kaidan being available to men in ME3. So sad how he became less real in that third game... 

 

I don't recall any flirtation with Nathaniel. He mentioned women several times however. From what I read, people weren't bothered by a gay man hitting on them as much as that it came out of nowhere, came right after Anders killed his last lover, and how aggressive Anders was about it. Add on that people later had more reasons to hate Anders that probably got lumped onto this aspect.

People were upset about Kaidan in ME3, again mostly because it came out of nowhere from an established character. Althought that was more about Shepard because Bioware had specifically stated that Male Shepard is "heterosexual by choice" meaning their choice.  I didn't hear people complaining about Cortez.

[CuriousArtemis]

I don't know that it's a vast majority, but a vast majority of real people are straight, so it makes some sense. I see all sorts in that other thread, including individuals posting multiple characters. It's not necessarily that a character being bi would "ruin" the character, it's that the particular character is straight (or whatever else) just because. You have to decide if you want a world of interesting, varied people or if everyone should be bi so you can have your pretend romance with any or all of them?

 

Also, the problem with the romance novel analogy and with your "these games are the bright spot in my life" comment is that the romance is a side story to the main one. When you pick up a romance novel, you are looking for a story about romance. This is more akin to discussing the romance between the characters in an action movie or spy thriller.

 

 

 

I don't recall any flirtation with Nathaniel. He mentioned women several times however. From what I read, people weren't bothered by a gay man hitting on them as much as that it came out of nowhere, came right after Anders killed his last lover, and how aggressive Anders was about it. Add on that people later had more reasons to hate Anders that probably got lumped onto this aspect.

People were upset about Kaidan in ME3, again mostly because it came out of nowhere from an established character. Althought that was more about Shepard because Bioware had specifically stated that Male Shepard is "heterosexual by choice" meaning their choice.  I didn't hear people complaining about Cortez.

 

Oh man I don't want to get into one of those pointless BSN "discussions," sigh, but I'll reply to this at least.

 

 

 

You have to decide if you want a world of interesting, varied people or if everyone should be bi so you can have your pretend romance with any or all of them?

 

It is sad that you don't think bisexuals are interesting.

 

Also it is really easy to make such snarky comments if you typically play a straight character so usually EVERY CHARACTER EXCEPT MAYBE ONE is already available to you.

 

 

 

Also, the problem with the romance novel analogy and with your "these games are the bright spot in my life" comment is that the romance is a side story to the main one. When you pick up a romance novel, you are looking for a story about romance. This is more akin to discussing the romance between the characters in an action movie or spy thriller.

 

Okay I guess I didn't feel I had to spell it out but perhapss I do. Romance is an important aspect of the games to some people. If it isn't for you, then okay. That doesn't make you a better gamer than someone else who loves romance. Personally romance is more important to me in DA than in ME, but I'd still be disappointed if I got few or crap options. If you don't care about romance then I'd suggest not talking about it. Also using terms like "pretend romance" is clearly meant to belittle people who love the romances in these games. 

 

And yeah I like a good romance in an action film. Though they often tend to be really crap and uninspiring... usually very heteronormative and eyeroll-inducing. 

 

 

 

From what I read, people weren't bothered by a gay man hitting on them as much as that it came out of nowhere, came right after Anders killed his last lover, and how aggressive Anders was about it.

 

No, trust me. It was the gay thing.

 

It's sort of like saying GamerGate is about "integrity in journalism." Um, no. No it's not. 

 

 

 

People were upset about Kaidan in ME3, again mostly because it came out of nowhere from an established character. Althought that was more about Shepard because Bioware had specifically stated that Male Shepard is "heterosexual by choice" meaning their choice.  I didn't hear people complaining about Cortez.

 

Were they? I wasn't into ME then. But I don't think it was as bad as the backlash against Anders. And if so, how sad. In any case, it totally did not come out of nowhere. Hey, I've played the Horizon mission I also got to tell TIM to mind his own damn business after he snidely asked me about my past relationships (this just after that painful meeting with Kaidan). 

 

It was never established in canon that Kaidan was straight, so if fans did respond that way they had absolutely nothing to back it up. They just assumed straight because he was not available to male characters in ME 1&2. Which mainly happened because it was 2007 and the world would have flipped its sh!t if m/m romance were a thing.

 

Tbh BioWare have never actually (to my knowledge) declared a character to be straight. Maybe in banter between two characters. But I can't think of any examples. People usually just assume a character is straight if they're only available to the opposite sex. And the whole reason they're only available to the opposite sex is usually because developers were not comfortable making them otherwise. (Notable exception is DAI, where they purposely made characters straight to please fans who complained about DA2. Because some people getting more options than usual evidently really, really pissed off a very vocal part of the community. Or they just thought lesbians would enjoy Cassandra turning them down; lesbian gamers really appreciate "realism" in games, little known fact.)

 

No one freaked out about Cortez because he never hits on you, plus if you objected to his presence in the game you'd be knowingly admitting you're a straight up homophobe. 

 

People who complain about Anders or Kaidan actually think they are decent, "tolerant" people. Which I guess is actually kind of sad.