392 réponses à ce sujet

[Grieving Natashina]

Whatever you say David. I stopped taking you seriously over a year ago. You're pretty amusing though, so I'm glad you stick around. For whatever reason, even though it seems like you hate BW games, characters, romances, LGBT+ characters, the writing, the gameplay, you keep coming around. Rerolling accounts constantly over the years to talk about the same thing over and over again. That makes me chuckle, because that is a huge amount of dedication to something that you know BW is going to disregard, based on their history.

I hope you put this much energy celebrating the games you love as you do bemoaning aspects of games you despise. Whatever inflates your rubber ducky.

[Helios969]

100% agreed. I think a good story triumphs a lot of boundries. That being said, there is posters I've read before that aren't comfortable playing the opposite sex or romancing as a different sexuality than their own. That isn't a bad thing; I had trouble getting into playing a male Shep.

Many posters, regardless of sexuality or gender, would prefer to have LGBT characters around, and not just in the background. Several are indifferent and think the whole hooplah surrounding it is silly. As long as they feel they played a good game, it's a take or leave sort of thing. A few have a real problem with it, and want to express their POV as well.

I do feel that even if the new IP that BW is working on excludes player romances, that doesn't mean that LGBT characters will suddenly cease to exist. Many stories have romances in the background if nothing else. Like a gay character causally mentioning having a husband, or a (non-Asari) woman mourning their female mate. Stuff like that. The player couldn't romance them in this scenario. However, I can't see every single mention of straight or LGB+ love stories disppearing altogether from the NPCs or from some quests here and there. I can also easily see LGBT+ party members still around, and still mentioning their past.

This is coming from someone that would highly prefer if the ME and DA teams keep the romances in their IP. On the other hand, if they chose not to take that route in the new IP, I wouldn't mind either. I do believe that this odd notion floating around here and there that LGBT+ characters and party members would suddenly cease any/all mentions of a partner, kids, ect, just because there is no player romances at all, pretty ridiculous. It would be just like all straight characters cease all mention of anything to do love. Even the COD games mention the occasional child and/lover with their NPCs and PCs.

I owe you a like.

As a straight male I can confirm the discomfort at the notion but that isn't why I don't bother RP'ing as a gay male...it's because Bioware doesn't set their universes up to really feel what it is like to be homosexual.  It's all like 'you're gay, cool beans.'  If I could experience the same types of social attitudes and stigmas associated with homosexuality in the real world, I would definite do it.  I largely roleplay to gain insight into what it might be like to be someone else, better understanding, and generally a fresh perspective.  Bioware just doesn't allow for that.  And that probably extends into many issues beyond just this.

[BabyPuncher]

I have no idea where you're getting this silly nonsense. I very much admire the characters, writing, and gameplay in the Mass Effect series. Although I would admit to being very concerned about the competence of the people behind the next game, largely thanks to the obvious failings of people like Mr. Heir. True enough, at this point, I've basically discarded the Dragon Age series.

[Grieving Natashina]

That's more than fair, but we need to look at the world of ME. Most of those stigmas just don't apply when it comes to sexuality anymore. It's treated as a non-issue, so there is no need to include those stigmas. Now if you date an alien, folks will freak out. In fact, I think more NPCs should react to the PC if they date an alien, but that's a different post for a different thread.

@David It's hard to tell with you sometimes. I can't tell how much of you online is a character and how much is serious. I'm honestly glad that you have enjoyed the ME series in some fashions. It's never fun to feel like you wasted your money on something that is grating.

[Helios969]

Natashina: Yeah, that always bothered me too...same type of thing.  Sometimes I think too many people are simply playing these games whatever way they do simply to validate themselves...their morality, sexuality...

[Grieving Natashina]

@Helios Well, that could be said about a lot of things in media. Sometimes we watch things that reaffirm our point of view. Other times we seek out things that challenge our point of view and how we see the world.

I don't think it's a matter of validity for most people. Identifying with a character is important, but sometimes it's a matter of preference. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Some folks are more passionate than others when it comes to that. Then again, if I wanted to agree with everyone all the time; if I didn't want my opinions challenged, I wouldn't come back to the BSN.

Edited a part out. It's far too off-topic, and serves the thread no good purpose. I have been guilty enough of that as it is.

Anyway, got a puppy to play with, since he's awake and bouncing off the walls. Enjoy your discussion.

[Helios969]

Again, I have no idea what I would have said to make you think I'm not completely serious. Perhaps you spend your life a little too deep into a world of people lying through their teeth, turning their head to avoid looking at unpleasantries, that sort of thing, that when someone is straightforward it's a bit of a revelation? 

 

I am 100% serious when I say things like transgender people are absolutely not equal and should not be treated as such. Of course, near everyone is in agreement with me, but they despise saying it out loud.

According to whom and/or in what context?  The ME universe? Peoples' general attitudes?

[BabyPuncher]

Well, the overwhelmingly majority of the general population, for starters. But of course we both know that truth and reality are not democratic.

[KaiserShep]

I am firmly of the opinion that relationships in RPG's need to be removed altogether. They don't add anything to the game and sexuality is becoming far too prevalent in video games. 

 

This isn't really correct. They simply don't add anything that you're particularly interested in.

[Kierro Ren]

100% agreed. I think a good story triumphs a lot of boundries. That being said, there is posters I've read before that aren't comfortable playing the opposite sex or romancing as a different sexuality than their own. That isn't a bad thing; I had trouble getting into playing a male Shep.

This is coming from someone that would highly prefer if the ME and DA teams keep the romances in their IP. On the other hand, if they chose not to take that route in the new IP, I wouldn't mind either. I do believe that this odd notion floating around here and there that LGBT+ characters and party members would suddenly cease any/all mentions of a partner, kids, ect, just because there is no player romances at all, pretty ridiculous. It would be just like all straight characters cease all mention of anything to do love. Even the COD games mention the occasional child and/lover with their NPCs and PCs.

I owe you a like.

 

YAY! I'm getting a like.

 

Another example of me not having to play my preference, is my original head canon Mage Warden for DA-DAI. He romanced Morgan and had the OB with her. My reasoning, was that Morgan was the first mage my character saw outside of his tower. He was alone as a mage, the world was going to hell, and he needed something familiar to hold on to. After beating DAI with a romanced Morgan. I went back to DAO. I knew Zevran was bi but never proceeded to romance him, though I always had him by my side.

 

It wasn't until my replay... his past, which oddly never showed up when I was just his friend, was just a heart bleeder. About him killing an innocent lover who he thought betrayed him. It was so sad I wanted hug my TV "It's ok..." I was like forget Morgan, your mine now. It wasn't because Zev's sexuality I romanced him, that was just curiosity the second time around. It was because like I mentioned, I always kept him around, him and Alister were my virtual buds. He was funny, not afraid to make someone feel awkward, it lightened up the doom and gloom. But, like Morgan, it was his story, his past, and character I enjoyed. Not the fact he was an option for men. Same with Cortez. Both lost a lover and because of it, they were ready to commit suicide unless showed it'll be alright.

 

COD? Like Call of Duty? WHAT!? O_O I-I didn't know that... though I prefer RPGs but... interesting.

[FemShem]

Here's the problem with statements like this... there are tens of thousands of threads about BioWares gay romances.  I always play lesbian options b/c I'm a lesbian.  I have no idea how many people romance Sera in DA:I but many more than are lesbians that play the game.

People love to role play.

People love pretend.

People love to have options.

People play them and use them and whine if they aren't there.

BioWare puts them in there because it makes them money, garnishes them positive attention, in a world where people can be killed for being gay a video game is kind of a nice safe outlet and some people appreciate it, it will sell extra copies of the game that may not be sold otherwise.

I bought every BioWare game after I played KOTOR after on my iPad because of a brilliant piece of writing and a plot twist.  The fact that they are the only game in town that does a game romance RPG insures my money.

Why would they give that up?

They are they ONLY game in town that does it.

They ALWAYS do it.

They ALWAYS (at least try) do it well.

What incentive do they have not to do it?

It makes them different.  They are known for it.  People buy their product because of it.

Aside from that they make amazing video games DA and ME are amazing series that look fantastic on the frostbite engine.

The homosexual thing, is a side benefit for some of us.  It matter not a whit to many.  It matters enough that they will keep it.  It doesn't hurt BioWare.  There's isn't a "Mom's Against Raging Gay Quanri".  WTF?!?

Seriously.  It's the same dead horse.  Why do you people keep beating it?

Gay romance isn't hurting you.  You don't want to play it, don't.  Are you afraid we'll see the unlock in your Keep FFS?

Here let me quote me...because it's still salient to the point from a while back.

I have played a straight romance human romance on DA:I after being an lesbian elf mage...wow are you treated differently...it's not sexual preference in DA it's classism being an elf is well...being a human noble you are treated far better by the NPCs, as are the things that are said around you.

On the subject of ME:

In ME1 and 3 you have the option of a gay romance (ME2 only if it's imported from ME1...my Shep was lonely in ME2 without an import).

Having done non-romance options, I really feel like I'm missing out on part of the RPG experience I so love.

Yes, I do love the gay romance.  It does not have the negative stigma in the ME and DA BioWare universes it does here on Earth, i.e. it doesn't equal a death sentence as it does in some countries...I don't know how that would cheat someone out of an RPG experience, I find it preferable, but again...BioWare can't make everyone happy as we have proven throughout discourse.

***MUST-BEAT-DEAD-HORSE

 

After all this discussion...

There is a subsection of BioWare's audience who buy BioWare's products because they enjoy having the option of the gay romance...BioWare is the only game in town that does it.

No1 is forced to play the gay romance.

It does not hurt anyone that the gay romance option exists, as far as I can tell.

Yes, it is an option that my  Female HoF is alive and well and with Leliana in DA:I but the default world is HoF is dead and no gay romances for any Bioware defaults.

There will always be thousands of threads.  I don't know why...that say the same thing.

This one has an inflammatory header (many do).  It beckons from afar...please come over here and beat on me...

I am on the boards infrequently, but there in always one of these things up somewhere on BioWare...

Gay romance...BioWare does it...customer's across the world use them (I would love to have the stats)...it sells copies...

They have no incentive to stop...you don't like it...don't romance...I don't do straight romance until way late for unlocks...

MUST---BEAT---DEAD---HORSE...damn, broke my poke stick...

Is it even possible to say, I'll let to go if you will?  

Hugs.

Side note:  Romancing Josephine gay or straight is brutal as is the Anders (DA2) romance IMHO, they are annoying.  It has nothing to do with sexuality.  Yes I love Isa and Merrill, others hate them...some guy is still going crazy over Cassandra's jawline...(if you never saw the threads on this guy's obsessions with Cassandra's jawline and her being a man (based on her jawline and his evolutionary theory examples in sociology (I'm guessing that is what he was going for)...wow...will you realize your life is normal and you don't have as much free time as that guy does...just saying'...creepy!)

[KaiserShep]

Bonus points for Moms Against Raging Gay Qunari. They can join forces with Dads Against Dorian.

[FKA_Servo]

According to whom and/or in what context?  The ME universe? Peoples' general attitudes?

 

Possibly just the many voices in his head.

 

Yikes, in any case.

[daveliam]

As a straight male I can confirm the discomfort at the notion but that isn't why I don't bother RP'ing as a gay male...it's because Bioware doesn't set their universes up to really feel what it is like to be homosexual.  It's all like 'you're gay, cool beans.'  If I could experience the same types of social attitudes and stigmas associated with homosexuality in the real world, I would definite do it.  I largely roleplay to gain insight into what it might be like to be someone else, better understanding, and generally a fresh perspective.  Bioware just doesn't allow for that.  And that probably extends into many issues beyond just this.

 

To be honest, that would be a deal breaker for me.  I don't want to have to face homophobic attitudes and discrimination in games; I face that in real life.  I can understand your viewpoint, but it's definitely not something that I'm interested in my self.  I actually enjoy being in a setting where being gay is really not a big deal in anyway.  ME does that really effectively for me.  DA is a bit more "realistic" in that there is some evidence of homophobia still in the setting.  But any more than what we see in DA would be huge turnoff for me.  Of course, subjective opinion is subjective.

[FemShem]

To be honest, that would be a deal breaker for me.  I don't want to have to face homophobic attitudes and discrimination in games; I face that in real life.  I can understand your viewpoint, but it's definitely not something that I'm interested in my self.  I actually enjoy being in a setting where being gay is really not a big deal in anyway.  ME does that really effectively for me.  DA is a bit more "realistic" in that there is some evidence of homophobia still in the setting.  But any more than what we see in DA would be huge turnoff for me.  Of course, subjective opinion is subjective.

Here is where I get confused...

Historically sometimes it is hip to be a ****** in history to the point you would like and say you would have a gay lover even if you didn't, say certain times in greco-roman history in certain provinces...even right now if you popped into P-town they'd expect you to have a same sex partner or why would you be there for vacay for the weekend...the same social moray would get you killed in other parts of the world.

It's not universal on earth or probably even in Thedas.

When I was in undergrad (I'm 42.), I had a guy tell I was just saying I was a lesbian to be trendy.  My half sister got that line last week, she's 21.  Of course, she's also a professional model, does that make a difference (?), and she's bi (is that more hipster)? (She would kill me for associating her with the word hipster).

So...

We do have associate homosexual romances with homophobic reactions as we see on BioWare forums from a handful of scrubs?  Are they the norm we are talking about?  What's wrong with the norm in Thedas being gay is okay, accept for Tevinter, where you can have gay sex, but not relationships?

It's BioWare's universe.

We let them make up the world on elves (knife ears), human (shems), and all other classism (mage/templars etc).

Why not let them make up the norm on homosexuality in ME and DA...oh wait they do...we just comment on it on BioWare forums and create flame wars over nothing.

(LOL...Nothing...Like in Shakespeare...Nothing is slang for a woman's private parts...hence..."Many a man, has spent man a day pondering nothing.")...Probably many a lesbian too...in Thedas...ME world...or in a BioWare office.

Peace out.

[78stonewobble]

I, personally.... would say .... that it's a bit selfish, if, under the threat of your species dying out, you wouldn't have a few drinks and take one or more for the team. *lol*

 

Offcourse I'd leave the choice up to people, but I would find it a bit selfish... and short sighted. 

 

...

 

Sure, it's easy for me to say. I'm a guy and it wouldn't entail 9 months and a decidedly painfull ending, but I think we have to admit, that a womans body is more or less evolutionary designed to do that. It's hard as hell (allthough I've heard some describe it as popping the skin of a boiled almond and others waaay to the bad side), but very possible. 

 

Also let's say the tech was there so you could transplant a fetus to a guy. If the species were dying out? I can't see how I could avoid volunteering (and have the drinks 9 months later)... *lol*

 

 

When I was in undergrad (I'm 42.), I had a guy tell I was just saying I was a lesbian to be trendy.  My half sister got that line last week, she's 21.  Of course, she's also a professional model, does that make a difference (?), and she's bi (is that more hipster)? (She would kill me for associating her with the word hipster).
 

 

Oh, I wouldn't find it impossible that someone somewhere, played a little at being a lesbian, gay or atleast bi, for fame, infamy, popularity, attention, PR, guys or women gawking at it and what not... but uhm... wtf. at that comment *lol*

 

EDIT: UNLESS drinks don't exist anymore in which case: "Damn you, damn you all to hell!"

[PhroXenGold]

I, personally.... would say .... that it's a bit selfish, if, under the threat of your species dying out, you wouldn't have a few drinks and take one or more for the team. *lol*

 

Offcourse I'd leave the choice up to people, but I would find it a bit selfish... and short sighted.

 

Seems to me the sensible way is to have a hetrosexual relationship for procreation, and a homosexual one for fun....

[78stonewobble]

Seems to me the sensible way is to have a hetrosexual relationship for procreation, and a homosexual one for fun....

 

Well, that depends on a persons idea of fun offcourse... And priorities... I presume some people just wanna watch the world burn and not procreate. *lol*

 

...

 

Well, now I got thinking about a pet peeve of mine. Out of principle I'm against anonymous "donations", because I think, a child has the right to know where he/she comes from and I don't see why that would be a problem here in 2015, for adults to arrange to have a child together, even if they aren't together and be honest (in regards to the kid, not everyone else) about it. But it's a side thing... Topic just got me thinking about it again. 

[FemShem]

This isn't really correct. They simply don't add anything that you're particularly interested in.

Sometimes I just want to start a thread that says, "I love KaiserShep." because you make me laugh so often when I need it.

Tyvm.

Snafu.

[FemShem]

Whatever you say David. I stopped taking you seriously over a year ago. You're pretty amusing though, so I'm glad you stick around. For whatever reason, even though it seems like you hate BW games, characters, romances, LGBT+ characters, the writing, the gameplay, you keep coming around. Rerolling accounts constantly over the years to talk about the same thing over and over again. That makes me chuckle, because that is a huge amount of dedication to something that you know BW is going to disregard, based on their history.

I hope you put this much energy celebrating the games you love as you do bemoaning aspects of games you despise. Whatever inflates your rubber ducky.

I have to say, I have noticed this from time to time, but I thought it was just me.

Really going back to work now.

But seriously, I thought it was the same person and writing style.

[Capt_Kangaroo]

Leave romances out all together. I have NEVER seen a romance that added to a game....,"ever", so why bother.

 

Cheers

[Jukaga]

Introduce artificial wombs in the medical centre of the ship, problem solved. If it's good enough for Honor Harrington, it's good enough for not-femshep.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

It's more selfish to expect homosexual relationships in grocery stores.

[London]

There was an interesting indie movie (After the Dark) about a class discussing a pending nuclear war where the class had to decide who would be allowed into the bomb shelter (with limited spots) to rebuild society.

One if the dilemmas was that one person was exceptionally skilled in farming which would be useful for survival, but was gay. Of course the issue of procreation was brought up.

I think there are more reasons to bring people on the arc than procreation. And I'm sure they are advanced enough to find other ways to procreate and add genetic diversity. They probably would have brought a large number of genetic material to seek airhead anyway.

[Lady Artifice]

 

But, um...In vitro Fertilization? 

 

As others have thankfully mentioned, this is a scientifically advanced society. There's nothing to stop them from procreating and having sex amongst themselves with whoever they please. You only need to be aware of Miranda Lawson to make that painfully obvious.