392 réponses à ce sujet

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

Why arent they doing it then?

 

Maybe because the progressive ideas arent only pandering to gays and bis but also to normal straight people who dont live in the past and support freedom instead of trying to repress everything deviant and force everyone into predetermined roles that fit their limited wold views in their heads.

 

So yes, they are pandering, to the majority.

Not really. The majority of gamers are not BSNers. The majority of gamers care about games being fun and interesting rather than making political statements. BW is fairly unique in this regard.

[Vortex13]

I don't really care either way, as romances are a tertiary activity rather than a top priority when I play these games. 

 

 

I will say though that I would be miffed if a companion, major NPC, or plot line dealing with the 'alien' aspects of this science fiction setting is cut to make room for another romance, regardless of gender or orientation.

 

More interactions with elements like the Thorian, the Hanar, the Elcor, the Rachni Queen, Legion, Shale, Swiftrunner, or the Messenger please. Less Dorian, Alistar, Miranda, Steve, or Liara.

[Ahriman]

It's set in the future. Current "progressive" ideas will likely be the norm.

History is a wonderful beast, you see, it doesn't have a target, it simply wanders around aimlessly, still according to some laws though, most of which we don't understand yet. So I don't think we can use word "likely" especially when it comes to such fragile thing as morality.

[Cirvante]

The only thing that makes sense is what makes money. Most games "pander" (kind of a stupid word) to more conventional needs. BW was smart to pander to the people they do because no other company does.

 

While I do agree with the first point, I wonder if the last one is actually true or whether they are doing it simply because they believe in their progressive agenda themselves. Does it really bring in more money to pander to such a small minority? Since I don't just frequent bsn I have seen quite a few people who were turned off by Bioware's attempts to be seen as 'progressive' and 'open-minded'. I guess we'll never know whether this actually brings in more money for them.

[naddaya]

History is a wonderful beast, you see, it doesn't have a target, it simply wanders around aimlessly, still according to some laws though, most of which we don't understand yet. So I don't think we can use word "likely" especially when it comes to such fragile thing as morality.

 

True, but in the ME universe I don't see many possible outcomes. People were quick to adjust to space travel and aliens, I don't see how homosexuality can be an issue. Even if there was the necessity to repopulate humanity as OP mentioned, gay people can reproduce just fine and I doubt there'll be a shortage of heterosexuals. Frankly, I'm surprised so many people are still weirded out by same sex relationships in 2015.

[FKA_Servo]

While I do agree with the first point, I wonder if the last one is actually true or whether they are doing it simply because they believe in their progressive agenda themselves. Does it really bring in more money to pander to such a small minority? Since I don't just frequent bsn I have seen quite a few people who were turned off by Bioware's attempts to be seen as 'progressive' and 'open-minded'. I guess we'll never know whether this actually brings in more money for them.

 

Considering it's been their thing for a decade and change, I think they're doing what they want to do. And if, as Stardusk argues, most players don't care either way as long as the game brings the game (which I think is an accurate observation - most people aren't internet ragey idiots), I don't see how it makes any difference.

 

I'm of the opinion that if someone is legitimately put off by "progressive open-mindedness" as specifically implemented in Bioware's games, then their opinion can be safely discounted. Particularly since they're going to buy the game anyway, if only to have something to complain about.

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

While I do agree with the first point, I wonder if the last one is actually true or whether they are doing it simply because they believe in their progressive agenda themselves. Does it really bring in more money to pander to such a small minority? Since I don't just frequent bsn I have seen quite a few people who were turned off by Bioware's attempts to be seen as 'progressive' and 'open-minded'. I guess we'll never know whether this actually brings in more money for them.

Sowohl als auch, junger Mensch...

[Ahriman]

True, but in the ME universe I don't see many possible outcomes.

As do I, it's Bioware we're talking about.

 

People were quick to adjust to space travel and aliens, I don't see how homosexuality can be an issue.

Honestly I don't see the connection here, but ok.

 

Frankly, I'm surprised so many people are still weirded out by same sex relationships in 2015.

Ancient romans had no problems with that at all. Few centuries later people were busy destroying old temples and statues and burning witches.

[capn233]

I don't see the logic in the idea that with highly automated reproduction you would need women but not men.

 

In any case, this game will take place far enough in the future that the Bene Cerberus control all breeding, and love doesn't factor into any decisions.

[PlatonicWaffles]

Nah, probably not. This'll be at least a decade to centuries after ME3, I'm sure super science will have made it so homosexual couples can have children carrying both partner's DNA.

[Panda]

While I do agree with the first point, I wonder if the last one is actually true or whether they are doing it simply because they believe in their progressive agenda themselves. Does it really bring in more money to pander to such a small minority?

 

They aren't pandering small minority, since not only LGBT+ players play romances and lot of progressive people would not like them abandoning LGBT+ romances.

 

Do they believe their progressive agenda themselves. I know that DA's writers do, but not really sure about ME team, maybe someone can answer that more.

[FKA_Servo]

Do they believe their progressive agenda themselves. I know that DA's writers do, but not really sure about ME team, maybe someone can answer that more.

 

There's been a decent amount of overlap in the past - I imagine that will continue. And actually, plenty of ME's team members in the past have made their positions known on the issue, as well (as in yes, this is their vision).

 

That the implementation in the ME series is ham-handed can be attributed to transitional growing pains, I think. Games have changed a lot in the past decade, and Bioware has been at the vanguard, in many cases.

[Cirvante]

I'm of the opinion that if someone is legitimately put off by "progressive open-mindedness" as specifically implemented in Bioware's games, then their opinion can be safely discounted. Particularly since they're going to buy the game anyway, if only to have something to complain about.

 

Most people only complain when it's shoved in their faces and not because it's in the game at all. Considering what an annoying bunch of bigots these 'progressive' liberals can be, I can't fault anyone for getting tired of it.

 

And the question is whether they'll actually buy the game anyway and complain about it, or whether they'll pirate it or not play it at all. It's easy to say that pandering to minorities will increase their sales, when you don't know how many people refuse to buy the game because of it. For example, I was very disappointed about CDPR's business practice of lying about the downgrade and bad optimization and then later acting as if it wasn't a big deal. I haven't bought W3 to this day and will only get it once the price goes down significantly, even though I really liked the witcher games. I can imagine people doing the same with Bioware games.

[FKA_Servo]

Most people only complain when it's shoved in their faces and not because it's in the game at all. Considering what an annoying bunch of bigots these 'progressive' liberals can be, I can't fault anyone for getting tired of it.

 

And the question is whether they'll actually buy the game anyway and complain about it, or whether they'll pirate it or not play it at all. It's easy to say that pandering to minorities will increase their sales, when you don't know how many people refuse to buy the game because of it. For example, I was very disappointed about CDPR's business practice of lying about the downgrade and bad optimization and then later acting as if it wasn't a big deal. I haven't bought W3 to this day and will only get it once the price goes down significantly, even though I really liked the witcher games. I can imagine people doing the same with Bioware games.

 

In my experience, the sort of person we're both talking about equates mere inclusion with having it "shoved in their face." Ok, though.

 

The whole Witcher 3 thing might be one of the most hilariously overblown things ever, considering it was trashing one of the legit loveliest games ever released based on the slightly degraded visual fidelity of individual grass stems or something. I guess I applaud you for your principled stance.

[Panda]

Most people only complain when it's shoved in their faces and not because it's in the game at all. Considering what an annoying bunch of bigots these 'progressive' liberals can be, I can't fault anyone for getting tired of it.

 

Well I don't really know any moment where "progressive content" was really showed in the face of player. LGBT+ romance content is completely avoidable in the games, I know that some people complained about Krem in DAI, but it's players choice to ask about Krem's transgenderness and you can completely avoid the topic by not picking up those dialogue options.

 

So is there really any point in Bioware's games where this content was shoved in the face of people?

[Fredward]

The only thing that makes sense is what makes money. Most games "pander" (kind of a stupid word) to more conventional needs. BW was smart to pander to the people they do because no other company does.

 

Do you think you can only pander to one demographic at a time? If yes: why?

[Wolfman]

Homosexual romance does not preclude heterosexual procreation.

Romance and reproduction need have nothing to do with each other.

Plus there's really nothing romantic about becoming a parent.

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

Do you think you can only pander to one demographic at a time? If yes: why?

No. In theory ME:A could have an amazing story, great combat, etc. with loads of ultra progressive tumblr feminist style content so the majority of gamers might overlook the latter,but usually that is not how it works in practice. I do not foresee CDPR ever going down the ultra progressive route that BW has. Its customer base likes the format they have adopted thus far and if it works, it works. They might never have a huge female fanbase for that reason (since men and women tend to want different things in games) but they are still successful. 

[Fredward]

No. In theory ME:A could have an amazing story, great combat, etc. with loads of ultra progressive tumblr feminist style content so the majority of gamers might overlook the latter,but usually that is not how it works in practice.

 

Do you think it always has to be something that needs to be overlooked? For instance if Bioware borrowed from the Witcher for  its straight male romances would their ultra progressive tumblr feminist style content still detract from the whole thing?

[Cirvante]

The whole Witcher 3 thing might be one of the most hilariously overblown things ever, considering it was trashing one of the legit loveliest games ever released based on the slightly degraded visual fidelity of individual grass stems or something. I guess I applaud you for your principled stance.

 

It's more about how they handled it. They vehemently denied it until the game was released and then acted like it wasn't a big deal. People were sick of being lied to by developers and thought, myself included, that the poles were some of the last decent people in the business who were upfront with their consumers. I will play the game eventually , but they aren't getting full price from me after that.

 

And Bioware has pushed their agenda in a pretty ham-fisted manner in their past games. Think Anders from DA2.

 

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

Do you think it always has to be something that needs to be overlooked? For instance if Bioware borrowed from the Witcher for  its straight male romances would their ultra progressive tumblr feminist style content still detract from the whole thing?

What would they borrow from CDPR?

[FKA_Servo]

It's more about how they handled it. They vehemently denied it until the game was released and then acted like it wasn't a big deal. People were sick of being lied to by developers and thought, myself included, that the poles were some of the last decent people in the business who were upfront with their consumers. I will play the game eventually , but they aren't getting full price from me after that.

 

And Bioware has pushed their agenda in a pretty ham-fisted manner in their past games. Think Anders from DA2.

 

Anders makes one single pass at you, and drops it completely if you turn him down.

 

"Shoved in our faces" indeed.

[AlanC9]

Anders makes one single pass at you, and drops it completely if you turn him down.
 
"Shoved in our faces" indeed.

Gay panic is a terrible thing.

[Fredward]

What would they borrow from CDPR?

 

Traditionally attractive females? I dunno, whatever it is that helps attract the Witcher's demographic.

[KaiserShep]

Most people only complain when it's shoved in their faces and not because it's in the game at all. Considering what an annoying bunch of bigots these 'progressive' liberals can be, I can't fault anyone for getting tired of it.

Thing is, what's considered to be shoved in one's face tends to vary wildly based on the [in]tolerances of the individual, unless something very specific is being...shoved into their faces.

If I had a rupee for every comment I saw where something in a movie, game or show was being shoved into someone's collective faces, I could buy Koholint Island twice.