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Could it be considered a little selfish to want homosexual romances in ME:A?


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#176
FKA_Servo

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For example, it would a huge turnoff for me personally (in game) to develop a (friendly) relationship with someone, only having it lead to a gay relationship forced upon me by the developers. Why couldn't we just be friends and be rewarded for that instead of the pinnacle of the relationship being a sexual encounter?

 

If you gay romance your friend, it will be because you deliberately chose the options that very clearly progress the plot in that direction. There's nothing to worry about.

 

The rest of your post makes hope that BIoware ratchets it up to 11, though.

 

(Which for most people would be like, a non-issue, but apparently it's just like I said - mere acknowledgement.)


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#177
Youknow

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I think it would be weird if homosexuals didn't cross over into the new galaxy. I mean, as funny as it would be for there to be some guy with a "hetero checklist," sitting at the Stargate, I don't think that would make much sense considering that the efforts are kind last resortish. Plus, I'm sure a homosexual would bring themselves to have heterosexual sex if it meant the preservation of their species.


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#178
Hanako Ikezawa

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I do agree about not liking how all Mass Effect romances led to a mandatory sex scene or else the relationship is off. Hopefully with DAI having romances where it is optional or even left ambiguous being well-received means that the Mass Effect team will follow suit.



#179
Fredward

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For example, it would a huge turnoff for me personally (in game) to develop a (friendly) relationship with someone, only having it lead to a gay relationship forced upon me by the developers.

 

Just out of curiosity what is your definition of 'forced?'



#180
Panda

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It's my personal opinion that romance should be eliminated and replaced with friendship. I do not condone gay relationships, just like I don't approve of a select few religions, or political beliefs even, but what happens behind closed doors is your business. I, nor many others on both sides of the fence, really don't want it forced upon me. For example, it would a huge turnoff for me personally (in game) to develop a (friendly) relationship with someone, only having it lead to a gay relationship forced upon me by the developers. Why couldn't we just be friends and be rewarded for that instead of the pinnacle of the relationship being a sexual encounter?

 

I do not judge people by their personal preferences, but I dislike agendas being forced upon me. I believe it to be more 'PC' and 'fair' to keep the sex out of it. I don't think any game developer has the resources to portray sexual relationships in the proper manner yet. It's great when it's great, but all hell breaks loose if it's not, which is most of the time. But friendship...friendship can bridge any gap. I really enjoyed ME:3's Citadel DLC generally speaking--all your friends getting together and having a great time regardless of gender, race, or creed.

 

TLDR; get your sexual jollies from your porn site of choice, but leave it out  of video games.

 

If you have played ME1-3, you would realise that romances aren't forced on you: you need to choose specific romance dialogue in order  to get them. You can also be friends with people in the games by simply talking to them without choosing romance dialogue. I do agree that some friendship arcs could be better and ME bit lacks of dislike-like meter that DA has so relationships are mostly friendly or romantic.



#181
Former_Fiend

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If you have played ME1-3, you would realise that romances aren't forced on you: you need to choose specific romance dialogue in order  to get them. You can also be friends with people in the games by simply talking to them without choosing romance dialogue. I do agree that some friendship arcs could be better and ME bit lacks of dislike-like meter that DA has so relationships are mostly friendly or romantic.

 

Well, to be fair, in ME1 it was impossible not to trigger Liara's romance. That wasn't intentional, though, and you could let her down easy enough.



#182
Panda

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Well, to be fair, in ME1 it was impossible not to trigger Liara's romance. That wasn't intentional, though, and you could let her down easy enough.

 

Are you sure that it's impossible, cause I don't remember triggering it with my female Shepard, but it has been sometime I played ME1.

 

Wouldn't be surprised though. ME is full of Asaris stroking your face no matter if you wanted that or not.



#183
HuldraDancer

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Are you sure that it's impossible, cause I don't remember triggering it with my female Shepard, but it has been sometime I played ME1.

 

Wouldn't be surprised though. ME is full of Asaris stroking your face no matter if you wanted that or not.

 

Relevant somehow.....yeah I should be sleeping instead of being on here.

 

Spoiler


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#184
Semyaza82

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It's my personal opinion that romance should be eliminated and replaced with friendship. I do not condone gay relationships, just like I don't approve of a select few religions, or political beliefs even, but what happens behind closed doors is your business. I, nor many others on both sides of the fence, really don't want it forced upon me. For example, it would a huge turnoff for me personally (in game) to develop a (friendly) relationship with someone, only having it lead to a gay relationship forced upon me by the developers. Why couldn't we just be friends and be rewarded for that instead of the pinnacle of the relationship being a sexual encounter?

 

I do not judge people by their personal preferences, but I dislike agendas being forced upon me. I believe it to be more 'PC' and 'fair' to keep the sex out of it. I don't think any game developer has the resources to portray sexual relationships in the proper manner yet. It's great when it's great, but all hell breaks loose if it's not, which is most of the time. But friendship...friendship can bridge any gap. I really enjoyed ME:3's Citadel DLC generally speaking--all your friends getting together and having a great time regardless of gender, race, or creed.

 

TLDR; get your sexual jollies from your porn site of choice, but leave it out  of video games.

   Just a few points I'd like to make in response. First, as others have pointed out already, gay romances (or any romances for that matter) have never been forced on player in Bioware games. They have always been entirely optional and it seems staggeringly unlikely they will change that.

 

  Second I don't think there is a binary choice between friendship or romance. It was completely possible for femShep to have an amazing friendship with Garrus without a romance starting with him, the same for Steve and mShep. The romance only starts if you, as the player, start it.

 

  The third point is more general and goes beyond just the romances in game. The whole idea of sexuality as something inherently and necessarily private is simply wrong. The relationships that people are in affect all parts of their lives, they are integral parts. I don't know if you are married or have long term partner, but if even if not it isn't hard to imagine how often a conversation with a friend or workmate would include mention of that wife. Likewise think of all the small acts of affection that most people can take for-granted; holding hands as you take a stroll, putting your arms around your partner as you sit and have a coffee. These are not things designed to force anything on anyone else, they are simply parts of a normal relationship. When people ask that gay people keep their relationships 'behind closed doors' I think they often don't realise that they are asking them to give up all these things.

   

  Finally romances are, and have always been, a huge part of narrative story telling across all mediums. Think of how few movies there are without a love interest for the main character, they do exist of course but they are very much the exception rather than the rule. They are so common place that for many an 'epic story' would be missing something without them - its not about getting sexual jollies, its a long established part of story telling. In video games, a form of media that allows for unparalleled choice and tailoring of the story, its surely natural that LGBT players would want the option to enjoy this along with everyone else?

 

p.s. While i strongly disagree with you're stated opinion here I do appreciate that you expressed it reasonably and politely - one of the problems with any debate on things like this is that all too often they descend into name calling and vitriol.


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#185
Fade9wayz

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You do realize homosexual people have had kids from the dawn of time, either per social pressure or because they wanted to? Being homosexual doesn't prevent someone to have children, it isn't the same as being infertile. Conversely, some heterosexual people don't want, or can't have children because they took vows, are infertile, or simply don't feel like it. Should they be banned from Andromeda because they can't/won't reproduce even if they are that super scientific genius that built something essential for survival in a new galaxy? Or should they be coerced into reproducing?

 

Edit: It also means women too old to have children safely would be banned from the Ark. Only young, fertile women would be allowed on board. Your question opens the door to a lot of ethically dangerous debates


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#186
Helios969

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You do realize homosexual people have had kids from the dawn of time, either per social pressure or because they wanted to? Being homosexual doesn't prevent someone to have children, it isn't the same as being infertile. Conversely, some heterosexual people don't want, or can't have children because they took vows, are infertile, or simply don't feel like it. Should they be banned from Andromeda because they can't/won't reproduce even if they are that super scientific genius that built something essential for survival in a new galaxy? Or should they be coerced into reproducing?

 

Edit: It also means women too old to have children safely would be banned from the Ark. Only young, fertile women would be allowed on board. Your question opens the door to a lot of ethically dangerous debates

Sure, but only if they fit the criteria of offering a critical skill needed for survival that cannot be replaced by people who are also willing and capable of reproduction.



#187
Fade9wayz

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Sure, but only if they fit the criteria of offering a critical skill needed for survival that cannot be replaced by people who are also willing and capable of reproduction.

As I said, it opens the door to very dangerous debates. If said genius is fertile and essential to the mission, but married and very much in love with a man or woman who isn't either essential nor fertile, are you going to make another exception for that spouse so you can keep that scientist happy and willing to work for the mission,or will you force them apart and run the risk of that scientist killing themselves or sabotaging the mission in bitterness later on?  IT works for the general population of the Ark. I would guess that most of the selected people have family and love ones who have no skill whatsoever essential to the mission. Are you going to break them all apart? Or are you going to populate the Ark with only sociopathic individuals?



#188
Helios969

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As I said, it opens the door to very dangerous debates. If said genius is fertile and essential to the mission, but married and very much in love with a man or woman who isn't either essential nor fertile, are you going to make another exception for that spouse so you can keep that scientist happy and willing to work for the mission,or are you force them apart and run the risk of that scientist killing themselves or sabotaging the mission in bitterness later on?  IT works for the general population of the Ark. I would guess that most of the selected people have family and love ones who have no skill whatsoever essential to the mission. Are you going to break them all apart? Or are you going to populate the Ark with only sociopathic individuals?

No, families would have to stay together...otherwise everything you laid out is a problem.  You would need to try to bring people who place high value on the collective group even at the expense of giving up many of their individual freedoms.  Humankind is about to go extinct, those who go need to have the common goal of ensuring the species survives.  Otherwise, we'd just end up finishing what the Reapers started.  Additionally, survival needs to be planned on the worst case scenario, not the optimal...meaning having access to cloning or artificial reproduction technology.



#189
Fade9wayz

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No, families would have to stay together...otherwise everything you laid out is a problem.  You would need to try to bring people who place high value on the collective group even at the expense of giving up many of their individual freedoms.  Humankind is about to go extinct, those who go need to have the common goal of ensuring the species survives.  Otherwise, we'd just end up finishing what the Reapers started.  Additionally, survival needs to be planned on the worst case scenario, not the optimal...meaning having access to cloning or artificial reproduction technology.

Considering that we agree on this, I guess we can agree also on the fact that focusing solely on fertility and skill is far too reducing to ensure not only the continuity of our species, but the continuity of our civilisations. If the people selected can provide both, it's ideal, but if they can only provide emotional and social stability on the Ark, it's good too. Group-minded people would be best, but you'll always have greedier and more egoist people in any group, and even group-minded people have their own needs. Using the excuse of placing the group before individual freedom would just end up in a society like North Korea where the general population has to do what they are told while the ones who manage to be at the head will reap all the benefits for themselves. Sorry for my cynicism, but I don't have much faith in human beings who trample your basic rights for 'your own good' or the 'good of the society'.

 

As you yourself quote, only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and Einstein wasn't sure about the former



#190
Ralph2449

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A repressed group of people with many negative psychological issues coming from said repression which could often include anger is better than a happy group of people that are able to do what they enjoy while being free and simply having to make babies as a common logical goal?

 

Hell even without technology babies can still be created without sexual intercourse, sperm banks cough cough.

 

 

Any society that starts by repressing and forcing people to do unpleasant things is doomed to fail and cause a ton of pain to people until it is replaced.



#191
ddraigcoch123

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It's my personal opinion that romance should be eliminated and replaced with friendship. I do not condone gay relationships, just like I don't approve of a select few religions, or political beliefs even, but what happens behind closed doors is your business. I, nor many others on both sides of the fence, really don't want it forced upon me. For example, it would a huge turnoff for me personally (in game) to develop a (friendly) relationship with someone, only having it lead to a gay relationship forced upon me by the developers. Why couldn't we just be friends and be rewarded for that instead of the pinnacle of the relationship being a sexual encounter?

 

I do not judge people by their personal preferences, but I dislike agendas being forced upon me. I believe it to be more 'PC' and 'fair' to keep the sex out of it. I don't think any game developer has the resources to portray sexual relationships in the proper manner yet. It's great when it's great, but all hell breaks loose if it's not, which is most of the time. But friendship...friendship can bridge any gap. I really enjoyed ME:3's Citadel DLC generally speaking--all your friends getting together and having a great time regardless of gender, race, or creed.

 

TLDR; get your sexual jollies from your porn site of choice, but leave it out  of video games.

If you see the 'romance' options/storylines in ME as only a form of digital porn and only about sex then I don't think you have understood the character/relationship basis of that particularly theme in the game.

 

I completely agree with you and feel the same about personal agenda's being forced on me but hey I'm a tolerant kind of person so I'm happy to engage in a discourse with people who hold vastly different world views than I do because I choose to read and comment on discussion threads and other parts of the internet. 

 

There is also the option in the game not to romance anyone and if you took that option then unless you went and hunted down game walk through's you wouldn't be exposed to any of the relationship story lines which I think offers a pretty clear opportunity for not having BW's 'agenda' forced on you? (I should say for the record I don't recognise 'forced agenda'  as what is happening but you do so I accept that is your experience)

 

Ultimately you can also choose not to buy/play video games that offer a range of characters and relationship options, language, nudity etc., that you don't wish to experience.  With all due respect we all know that BW does this stuff in their games and as others elsewhere have said its a little like asking a car manufacturer who specialises in two seater sports cars to please make a family hatchback because you don't want to drive a coupe.

 

You are the consumer and have the ultimate choice in all the matter.



#192
DeLaatsteGeitenneuker

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If you see the 'romance' options/storylines in ME as only a form of digital porn and only about sex then I don't think you have understood the character/relationship basis of that particularly theme in the game.

 

I completely agree with you and feel the same about personal agenda's being forced on me but hey I'm a tolerant kind of person so I'm happy to engage in a discourse with people who hold vastly different world views than I do because I choose to read and comment on discussion threads and other parts of the internet. 

 

There is also the option in the game not to romance anyone and if you took that option then unless you went and hunted down game walk through's you wouldn't be exposed to any of the relationship story lines which I think offers a pretty clear opportunity for not having BW's 'agenda' forced on you? (I should say for the record I don't recognise 'forced agenda'  as what is happening but you do so I accept that is your experience)

 

Ultimately you can also choose not to buy/play video games that offer a range of characters and relationship options, language, nudity etc., that you don't wish to experience.  With all due respect we all know that BW does this stuff in their games and as others elsewhere have said its a little like asking a car manufacturer who specialises in two seater sports cars to please make a family hatchback because they don't want to drive a coupe.

 

You are the consumer and have the ultimate choice in all the matter.

Do you believe humans are exceptions to evolutionary selection pressures?



#193
ddraigcoch123

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Do you believe humans are exceptions to evolutionary selection pressures?

No, but 'evolutionary selection' is necessarily changing given we now have access to technology that means we control our environment and even our biological evolutionary processes in a way undreamed of even a generation ago... but we must agree to disagree about the hugely complicated issue that is 'mate' selection in our very complicated modern lives. 



#194
DeLaatsteGeitenneuker

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No, but 'evolutionary selection' is necessarily changing given we now have access to technology that means we control our environment and even our biological evolutionary processes in a way undreamed of even a generation ago... but we must agree to disagree about the hugely complicated issue that is 'mate' selection in our very complicated modern lives. 

We never even had a discussion to disagree about so I am not sure what we disagree on exactly.



#195
ddraigcoch123

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A caricature of what, good sir? I simply stated what most straight men like; young, nubile, neotenous looking, long haired women of appropriate waist to hip ratio (for which the ideal range is from 0.68 to 0.8). I am not saying they have to be in the game, merely that such women are the ones most men like.

THIS... I do not hold the same opinion as you do and I provided a link to research that disputes your views on the supremacy universally attested preferences [edit for quoting more accurately] of the WHR in mating choices... but as I've said previously I'm not going to engage further as this is off topic and I'm not an evolutionary psychologist or biologist so we'd just be throwing 'googled' research at each other :)

 

Edit: as an example some googled research which is really quite interesting, well I found it interesting as it told me things I didn't know http://content.time....1931757,00.html



#196
DeLaatsteGeitenneuker

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THIS... I do not hold the same opinion as you do and I provided a link to research that disputes your views on the supremacy of the WHR in mating choices... but as I've said previously I'm not going to engage further as this is off topic and I'm not an evolutionary psychologist or biologist so we'd just be throwing 'googled' research at each other :)

There is no need to discuss that, though I never used the term WHR supremacy. I see you do not wish to discuss anything so I will relent.



#197
ddraigcoch123

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There is no need to discuss that, though I never used the term WHR supremacy. I see you do not wish to discuss anything so I will relent.

My apologies I have edited my post to quote you more accurately :)



#198
Display Name Owner

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I can't imagine the main plot is going to be about a high stakes mission to shag and impregnate our way across a whole new galaxy. Like the protagonist is a one man army of estranged fathers. The guy's job is meant to be scouting, isn't it? Setting up a colony has to require more than just popping out kids, it'd take people with skills and as long as they're doing their jobs it's not like they've got to take part in squeezing kids out.

Bizarre point to make. And I don't even have any intention of pursuing a homosexual romance.


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#199
AlanC9

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Hell even without technology babies can still be created without sexual intercourse, sperm banks cough cough.

 

 

True dat. Really, if they want to maximize population growth the Ark population should be 100% female. Better for them if they're lesbians, although that isn't really important to the mission.


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#200
Arcian

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Select people for colonizing another galaxy judging by their health, ability and will to reproduce? What a fascism.
Bioware is known for their social realism. If best farmer in the galaxy is gay, then so be it. Sane person would never replace him with some other farmer for some illusory reproduction gains.

Reproduction doesn't even require sex anymore, he can just donate his material in a cup and let science do the rest.