264 réponses à ce sujet

[Fredward]

Kinda off topic but I've seen legitimate opinions called trolling just cuz nobody wants to listen. They're bizarre and unpopular opinions but that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't genuine, you don't just yell at someone to STFU because you don't like what they're saying. There is a very deep irony there if it comes from traditionally marginalized groups too.

 

On topic: I liked Brooks as an antagonist, she infiltrated you, outsmarted you, betrayed you, had a cohesive goal, had an extremely I'm-better-than-you voice/accent. If it was Brooks vs Kai Leng as how antagonists should be going forward it's Brooks all the way. I keep hearing the IM was a good one too but he was always kinda meh to me, he ticked the boxes I suppose. But then he had to go and have crazy with his cornflakes and as far as I'm concerned that chucks almost everything else he was out the window.

[Killroy]

Not really. Happy healthy, make decent money, going to school with little debt. Feeling quite good.

 

I really doubt that.

[Former_Fiend]

an intellectual threat? as in, writing a mean review about the player character's latest monograph?

 

As in someone who is capable of matching us on a tactical, strategic, and psychological level as well as on a physical one.

[Just Here For Popcorns]

On topic: I liked Brooks as an antagonist, she infiltrated you, outsmarted you, betrayed you, had a cohesive goal, had an extremely I'm-better-than-you voice/accent. If it was Brooks vs Kai Leng as how antagonists should be going forward it's Brooks all the way. I keep hearing the IM was a good one too but he was always kinda meh to me, he ticked the boxes I suppose. But then he had to go and have crazy with his cornflakes and as far as I'm concerned that chucks almost everything else he was out the window.

Personally for me at least Brooks was joke as well especially considering her in books, well entire DLC was joke in good way that is lol

 

 

 

Edit: As you requested.

[Vapaa]

Personally for me at least Brooks was joke as well especially considering her in books, well entire DLC was joke in good way that is lol

 

A good joke is often way better than failed attemps at being serious.

[KaiserShep]

It's funny that you complain about poorly written antagonists...and then cite as your counterexamples three antagonists who weren't particularly well written, but whose voice actors were able to sound Deep and Menacing so many fans have given them a 'pass'.

 

Poor Saren didn't even know what he was doing. He was hitting the reaper pretty hard. 

[BabyPuncher]

I cannot think of a single female villain I would particularly call well written.

 

Making an effective villain often depends on making use of very primal emotions and concepts such as fear and power. These are not things that can be politically enforced. Although that kind of reasoning is probably above the heads of people whose brains shut down at immediately speeds whenever the issue of 'equality' arises.

 

If a villain is intended to be intimidating, it's probably best to stick with a man.

[Fredward]

in that another thread that was troll case

 

I disagree with that assessment.

 

I am curious about your opinion on Brooks, I didn't read the books/comics so maybe I'm missing something though.

 

[Vol_Tang_Clan]

I cannot think of a single female villain I would particularly call well written.

 

Making an effective villain often depends on making use of very primal emotions and concepts such as fear and power. These are not things that can be politically enforced. Although that kind of reasoning is probably above the heads of people whose brains shut down at immediately speeds whenever the issue of 'equality' arises.

 

If a villain is intended to be intimidating, it's probably best to stick with a man.

 

How simple. But what should I expect from you earth-clan?

[Panda]

Kinda off topic but I've seen legitimate opinions called trolling just cuz nobody wants to listen. They're bizarre and unpopular opinions but that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't genuine, you don't just yell at someone to STFU because you don't like what they're saying. There is a very deep irony there if it comes from traditionally marginalized groups too.

 

On topic: I liked Brooks as an antagonist, she infiltrated you, outsmarted you, betrayed you, had a cohesive goal, had an extremely I'm-better-than-you voice/accent. If it was Brooks vs Kai Leng as how antagonists should be going forward it's Brooks all the way. I keep hearing the IM was a good one too but he was always kinda meh to me, he ticked the boxes I suppose. But then he had to go and have crazy with his cornflakes and as far as I'm concerned that chucks almost everything else he was out the window.

 

Sometimes it's less creepy to think some opinions as trolling than admit that the person might be serious.

 

On topic: I liked Brooks as well, I had no idea that she was anything other than she pretended so it was big plottwist for me to find her being villain. Not best female villain in ME, but good one for sure.

[ddraigcoch123]

I cannot think of a single female villain I would particularly call well written.

 

Making an effective villain often depends on making use of very primal emotions and concepts such as fear and power. These are not things that can be politically enforced. Although that kind of reasoning is probably above the heads of people whose brains shut down at immediately speeds whenever the issue of 'equality' arises.

 

If a villain is intended to be intimidating, it's probably best to stick with a man.

Ouch... So how about Aria T'Loak?  And if you read the books and comics it fleshes out more how she ruled Omega and the Terminus systems with fear? And again what about Cersei Baratheon (of course she got into a bit of trouble at the end of the last series).  On a different tac I always thought Kai Leng was a weak version of O-Ren Ishii now there's a villain worth getting behind...

But wait I think I just fell into a Troll Trap

[rashie]

I wouldn't mind that, as long as they steer clear of the comic book villain archetype, who does things just to cause destruction.

 

Make them have motivations you as the player can relate to and understand, and an ideological drive behind their actions rather than just "kicking puppies" kind of character. There's reasons why a villain such as the joker in the dark knight is such a wonderful villain.

[BabyPuncher]

Ouch... So how about Aria T'Loak?

 

A good example of precisely what I'm talking about. Omega's writing was garbage, and that failure largely rested on Aria. BioWare tries to pretend she's 'evil' and 'ruthless' and what do we get? Basically a character who is a clown. After Shepard refuses to shut down the power plant, what does she do? Gently scolds Shepard and rolls her eyes. Gosh, how 'ruthless.' As I said in another thread, it's as if the dispute was over if a waitress should be tipped instead of whether thousands of innocents should die. She doesn't do a thing during the entire plot to actually show any 'evil' or 'ruthless' character, which is supposed to be the whole conflict of the story.

 

A more properly written scenario could involve the player character beating her senseless and sticking a gun in her face and threatening her life if she gets stupid like that again. But players tend to be squeamish about their (likely male) protagonist beating women, don't they now?

[Gileadan]

Four pages and no mention of Amelyssan from Throne of Bhaal? I am disappoint.

*waves cane*

[rashie]

Four pages and no mention of Amelyssan from Throne of Bhaal? I am disappoint.

*waves cane*

Was an ok villain, but she doesn't really hold a candle when compared to Irenicus imo.

[Catastrophy]

Four pages and no mention of Amelyssan from Throne of Bhaal? I am disappoint.

*waves cane*

Who? Can't have been that impressive.

[Gileadan]

Was an ok villain, but she doesn't really hold a candle when compared to Irenicus imo.

True... but compared to more recent offerings, or complete jokes like the Valsharess in HotU...

[Seraphim24]

Who? Can't have been that impressive.

 

Melissan from Throne of Bhaal expansion to Baldur's Gate 2.

 

Spoiler

 

 

In all seriousness the BG2 (and Throne of Bhaal) characters and kind of the general thematic thrusts were really the predecessors to DA2. Or rather, DA2 was the spiritual successor to those parts of those games. In retrospect, I could never really understand why people were so excited about the DA2 sarcastic options and stuff like that probably because BG2 and ToB did them (and the overall power fantasy thing) much better.                                   

 

Many people of course never played those games, Now it all makes sense! I also found this image from these forums no less..

 

It’s funny how femHawke and Melly are basically clones actually in this picture comparison.

 

 

How about that..

 

Ahem! So, character wise, she is essentially extremely obsessive and highly devoted priest of Bhaal, she seeks to control everyone and everything, but it also happens to evade her grasp precisely for that reason. It is an ambition which exceeds the boundaries of reality, and instead leads to a kind of counter whiplash experience where the control explodes into this taught over-reaction of sudden and highly chaotic displays of emotional tempestuousness, and paradoxically leads to a state not of control but utmost submission to the overbearing reality as the fantastical dream of total control fades away.

 

It's a somewhat strange idea that has pervaded in many of these Bioware characters in games, for example perhaps DA2 Anders, like someone who, in inhaling and demonstrating the strength of their lungs nearly forgets to breathe, and so you have this paradox of a person with strong lungs who is very frequently out of breath. I want to say, breathe, you will be ok!

 

But, she, at any rate, as this thread has been discussing more directly, was certainly female.

[SardaukarElite]

Ha! I draw the line at dames who shoot at me.

 

---

 

Seriously though, sounds cool.

 

It's funny that you complain about poorly written antagonists...and then cite as your counterexamples three antagonists who weren't particularly well written, but whose voice actors were able to sound Deep and Menacing so many fans have given them a 'pass'.

 

I thought Arishok was great, if you overlook how a qunari army sitting inside a foreign, xenophobic, city protected by templars made no sense at all.

[Catastrophy]

Melissan from Throne of Bhaal expansion to Baldur's Gate 2.

Spoiler

 

 

In all seriousness the BG2 (and Throne of Bhaal) characters and kind of the general thematic thrusts were really the predecessors to DA2. Or rather, DA2 was the spiritual successor to those parts of those games. In retrospect, I could never really understand why people were so excited about the DA2 sarcastic options and stuff like that probably because BG2 and ToB did them (and the overall power fantasy thing) much better.

 

It’s funny how femHawke and Melly are basically clones actually in this picture comparison.

 

I just realized I only played the Shadows of Amn - not the first part.

[Seraphim24]

I just realized I only played the Shadows of Amn - not the first part.

 

Well Throne of Bhaal was the expansion to Shadows of Amn, the first part.. would just be Baldur's Gate 1.

[Joseph Warrick]

I cannot think of a single female villain I would particularly call well written.

Making an effective villain often depends on making use of very primal emotions and concepts such as fear and power. These are not things that can be politically enforced. Although that kind of reasoning is probably above the heads of people whose brains shut down at immediately speeds whenever the issue of 'equality' arises.

If a villain is intended to be intimidating, it's probably best to stick with a man.

The primal emotion part is true. In fact I read a piece of news the other day saying hurricanes with female names kill more people because unthinking morons take them less seriously than male-named ones.

[Ahriman]

Not quite sure what OP wants. If alien females are bigger and more agressive than males, and basically take dominate role in their society, would such female antagonist count?

What antagonist's gender adds to writing in general?

[rashie]

I just realized I only played the Shadows of Amn - not the first part.

BG1 really isn't worth playing unless you enjoy low level D&D gameplay, the story is very light compared to SoA even if what is there is well written.

[KaiserShep]

The primal emotion part is true. In fact I read a piece of news the other day saying hurricanes with female names kill more people because unthinking morons take them less seriously than male-named ones.

 

If they really want to wipe out a lot of people, they should name a hurricane Little Miss Maelstrom.