264 réponses à ce sujet

[BabyPuncher]

Seriously? Not one in the entire history of literature, film, theater, TV, games, etc.? Ever? Sticking with cinema for a bit, how about Norma Desmond from Sunset Boulevard, Phyllis Dietrichson from Double Indemnity, Lady Kaede from Ran, Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, etc.? I could go on for a while here.

 

You're right. That was probably a bit premature.

 

Nurse Ratched certainly qualifies. And someone mentioned Dolores Umbridge from the Harry Potter books, she was a well written villain. And I remember the lady from the Tangled Disney film I saw a few years ago, she was well done. I'm not familiar with the others you mentioned. There are probably others I haven't thought of.

 

Still...these are all characters derived from 'soft power.' Position and manipulation. Not physical power or intimidation. Not 'hard power,' which this story is almost certain to be based on.

[Donk]

I wish I wasn't on my phone. I could do with a Cersei eyeroll Gif right about now.

[Pee Jae]

Not to belabor my point, but... to belabor my point. This is badarse. This is what I want.

[KaiserShep]

I wish I wasn't on my phone. I could do with a Cersei eyeroll Gif right about now.

imgur's a handy thing. Keeps my reaction pic capability up when on my phone.

[NKnight7]

imgur's a handy thing. Keeps my reaction pic capability up when on my phone.

 

Or this one.

 

[Hair Serious Business]

Female antagonist: mysterious, intelligent, perverse with added sex appeal (options ok? Not like she has to have all of those) You can't just copy and paste traits from male antagonist, if you do that, you failed at making female antagonist. 

Sexy one?

That is not must in my books at all. I mean if she is some smoking hot villain then ok, no problem but I wouldn't care even if she happens to look like Xenomorph Queen. Point is I don't care about her looks/race, what I want of her is to be determined for her goal because that is what they are her goals and believes not because she was brainwashed by someone or is mentally unstable and now is doing all kind of sh*t and that is redemption by BW for her actions. No! I want some that doesn't have that "redemption" tribute to her, she does what she does by her own will because wants it and there is no cheap excuses that can justify her at all. 

In short, badass true evil ruthless villain that makes Sephiroth seem like baby story!

So long as she doesn't have sex with people to kill them, use her boobs to dominate the galaxy, dress in a ridiculously sexual way that no man would ever dress, so long as the camera doesn't spend 50% of its time looking at her butt and the other 50% of its time looking at her cleavage, so long as she has realistic motivations that don't revolve around the fact that she's a woman, and so long as taking her down doesn't involve seducing her, then sure.

 

I'm all for a female antagonist!

^Agreed.

I want female antagonist that is going to be badass, not nexus version that serves there just to pose as model like Quiet did(I like Quiet but God her constant fanservice-posing when going in battle and cutscenes, I swear I had to switch to porn if someone was about to come in my room because it would be easier to explain).

Regretted googling that one  

Have you ever heard about....don't google everything if you don't know it because google is not very safe place?

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

Sexy one?

That is not must in my books at all. I mean if she is some smoking hot villain then ok, no problem but I wouldn't care even if she happens to look like Xenomorph Queen. Point is I don't care about her looks/race, what I want of her is to be determined for her goal because that is what they are her goals and believes not because she was brainwashed by someone or is mentally unstable and now is doing all kind of sh*t and that is redemption by BW for her actions. No! I want some that doesn't have that "redemption" tribute to her, she does what she does by her own will because wants it and there is no cheap excuses that can justify her at all. 

In short, badass true evil ruthless villain that makes Sephiroth seem like baby story!

^Agreed.

I want female antagonist that is going to be badass, not nexus version that serves there just to pose as model like Quiet did(I like Quiet but God her constant fanservice-posing when going in battle and cutscenes, I swear I had to switch to porn if someone was about to come in my room because it would be easier to explain).

 

Have you ever heard about....don't google everything if you don't know it because google is not very safe place?

This is bad ass...

 

[Hair Serious Business]

This is bad ass...

 

Spoiler

Ah,yes her........-coughs- brings back old memories in old threads and posts in where users wanted broodmother romance and she was one they demanded.

[Aimi]

I completely disagree. You haven't even given reasons as to why they're poorly written. These are villains that are roundly heralded so you'll have to have more than "they're not well written" to make any sort of argument.

Of course I didn't. Not every one of my posts needs to be an article. At least, that's what I keep telling myself. But the response was handled reasonably well.

Well, in the case of Saren, he starts out pretty much as a cartoon villain ("AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!! This human must be . . . eliminated."). Then all of the sudden, when it's revealed that he's indoctrinated, we're now expected to feel bad for him because . . . why? The emotional arc of the character makes no sense at all. As for Loghain, he was fine I guess, although I admit that because I'm not terribly invested in Dragon Age, I haven't thought about the character as much. I played about 10 minutes of Dragon Age II, so I don't know a darn thing about the Arishok.

Yeah. I'm not a fan of Saren's arc. He's depicted alternately as Snidely Whiplash (in which case, y'know, he's a cartoon villain) and as a slave for whom we should feel sympathy (in which case, y'know, he's kind of not that menacing). Neither of those things individually does much for me; they're serviceable, I suppose, but hardly hallmarks of Great Writing. And combining them in the way that was done in ME1 was goofy.

As for Loghain, there's not much special about a cartoon villain who cloaks his actions in the patriotism that is the last refuge of the scoundrel. As before, it's a serviceable character but not much more. Ascribing all of his evil to Howe, as some have done, makes Loghain seem less competent and certainly less menacing; the characterizations of the various Dragon Age media since Origins have only muddied the waters without making Loghain any more complex.

The arishok, on the other hand, did a bunch of things that made no sense predicated on a rule book full of things that we couldn't see or understand, and the primary thing that was interesting about him, apart from his excellent voice-over, was the fact that he could come to 'respect' the player character before going full-on psycho and starting a lunatic war. Whatever the hell that 'respect' was worth. (It was worth a really obnoxious boss battle, apparently.)

[marcelo caldas]

I mean why not lol

Nope this has nothing to do with "OMG BW put women more on spotlight", heck nope.

Trough both DA and ME your main antagonist has always been man, never a woman and if there was female bad guy like Benezia it turns out she wasn't evil she was manipulated by Saren so blame it all on Saren for her being bad. It kinda gives you that vibe telling you "See,only men can be truly evil." which is again bs that you usually hear from femenazis.

Women make one of best and most ruthless villains(tons of examples of that...Flemeth would have been most awesome antagonist in BW history if they gave her role of 'true bad one' instead of making someone you don't care for like Coryfish a evil star of game) and as I said at start of my thread, why not? It is going to break a bit feminazi's monotony of 'only guys can be true bad ones' in story and it won't kill BW to give it a try. All they need to know is how to make interesting character(which they do) like Flemeth for example and you can have one of best antagonists in history that can even give antagonist like Sephiroth bad name.

(yes Faora I'm pointing at you)

 

if you can have her as a LI, even better...

[Killroy]

Yeah. I'm not a fan of Saren's arc. He's depicted alternately as Snidely Whiplash (in which case, y'know, he's a cartoon villain) and as a slave for whom we should feel sympathy (in which case, y'know, he's kind of not that menacing). Neither of those things individually does much for me; they're serviceable, I suppose, but hardly hallmarks of Great Writing. And combining them in the way that was done in ME1 was goofy.

We're not supposed to feel bad for Saren. We know he was a monster before he was indoctrinated so his indoctrination and struggle against it is meant to instill in us a fear of the reapers, not sympathy for a sociopath.

As for Loghain, there's not much special about a cartoon villain who cloaks his actions in the patriotism that is the last refuge of the scoundrel. As before, it's a serviceable character but not much more. Ascribing all of his evil to Howe, as some have done, makes Loghain seem less competent and certainly less menacing; the characterizations of the various Dragon Age media since Origins have only muddied the waters without making Loghain any more complex.

Did you even play Origins?

The arishok, on the other hand, did a bunch of things that made no sense predicated on a rule book full of things that we couldn't see or understand, and the primary thing that was interesting about him, apart from his excellent voice-over, was the fact that he could come to 'respect' the player character before going full-on psycho and starting a lunatic war. Whatever the hell that 'respect' was worth. (It was worth a really obnoxious boss battle, apparently.)

He didn't go psycho. He went Qunari. His beliefs wouldn't allow him to leave Kirkwall or to him to remain a passive observer. He was forced to act, whether he believed he could be successful or not. His beliefs are so rigid and his dedication to them was steadfast. He's compelling because he's entirely rational, mostly logical, exceptionally menacing, and tactically adept.

[Just Here For Popcorns]

I smell fight....one second need to bring tools necessary for this

 

                                   ....

 

          

 

...Ok now you can continue and just pretend I'm not here at all.

[laudable11]

You know, I hate the SJW crowd but dang, a Bioware female baddy would be stellar.

[Killdren88]

You know, I hate the SJW crowd but dang, a Bioware female baddy would be stellar.

 

I don't think Gender plays a role in creating a character. They set the personality, goals and motivations on the table, and my guess is then do they gel better with a male character or Female.

[Just Here For Popcorns]

You know, I hate the SJW crowd but dang, a Bioware female baddy would be stellar.

As long as they do her right and not just "booty booty booty bewbs bewbs bewbs booty bewbs booty bewbs" as only aspects of her and her personality I mean seriously imagine if we go to meet the 'big bad' and all time while she talks this is where camera focuses on:

[KaiserShep]

I always laugh at that investigate pic. 

[Kevinc62]

As long as they do her right and not just "booty booty booty bewbs bewbs bewbs booty bewbs booty bewbs" as only aspects of her and her personality I mean seriously imagine if we go to meet the 'big bad' and all time while she talks this is where camera focuses on:

 

    I can't with rapey sheppard, like wtf Bioware....

[Just Here For Popcorns]

    I can't with rapey sheppard, like wtf Bioware....

ME franchises was full of rape faces that I seriously was surprised and shocked why Shepard never thought of showing his rape face to reapers.....it would make all of their systems overload and they would explode without any catalyst lol

[Lady Artifice]

I don't know if I have a favorite female antagonist from video games. Maybe Sophia Lamb from Bioshock 2. 

 

It's true that there aren't very many examples of very physical female antagonists in most video games. One of the reasons Vassir works so well might be because of the Vanguard class balancing a sense of raw physical power with the space sorcery of biotics so well. 

[Just Here For Popcorns]

I don't know if I have a favorite female antagonist from video games. Maybe Sophia Lamb from Bioshock 2. 

 

It's true that there aren't very many examples of very physical female antagonists in most video games. One of the reasons Vassir works so well might be because of the Vanguard class balancing a sense of raw physical power with the space sorcery of biotics so well. 

ehm...

Antagonists from FF franchise though I will flash out Jenova mostly out of them all.

Maleficent, your classical badass female bad girl.

Antagonists from DC and Marvel like Faora, Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Mystique and etc. lots of them.

Sophia Leigh,Amanda,Jacqueline Natla from Tomb Raider, Queen Himiko from New Tomb Raider.

Alma Wade F.E.A.R.

Carmilla from Castlevenia.

Juri from SF.

Women from MK.

Jeanne from Bayonetta.

Lucrezia Borgia from AC:Brootherhood.

Sarah Kerrigan who I freaking love and etc. lots of other female antagonists that were pure badass that I could easly add to this list.

Don't google first one though lol

[The Night Haunter]

The primal emotion part is true. In fact I read a piece of news the other day saying hurricanes with female names kill more people because unthinking morons take them less seriously than male-named ones.

Sounds like a win to me

[Lady Artifice]

ehm...

 

Don't google first one though lol

 

I didn't say that there weren't any, just that they were rare. I don't think that list is big enough to make me reconsider that opinion. Plus, a few of them aren't very physical at all, certainly not in the way I meant. Carmilla and Poision Ivy, for example, are both generally distance fighters. 

[Seraphim24]

The biggest problem is really if ME4 has this heavily pre-designed pre-set antagonist. All the Bioware games that really tried to make for more gray areas and that’s what made games transgressive and interesting in the first place, such as KOTOR or BG or Origins or even ME1 at least a bit.

 

An “antagonist” is really kind of the easy way out as far as games go, it means you can check your own interpretations at the door, the writers are going to take care of all the complicated questions for you and so on.

 

Whether that gender of the character is male or female is 100% irrelevant ultimately. It's moving backwards from the idea that games are these interactive media which challenge your interpretations and ideas and instead retro-transforming them into the traditional media of movies or books where answers are the province of the creator and you are simply the passive recipient.

[Panda]

I didn't say that there weren't any, just that they were rare. I don't think that list is big enough to make me reconsider that opinion. Plus, a few of them aren't very physical at all, certainly not in the way I meant. Carmilla and Poision Ivy, for example, are both generally distance fighters. 

 

Well if we are going with Bioware's games I'd say that Meredith is mostly physical villain that uses "hard power", intimidation, order and violence.

 

Tela Vasir is good one as well like mentioned

[BabyPuncher]

The biggest problem is really if ME4 has this heavily pre-designed pre-set antagonist. All the Bioware games that really tried to make for more gray areas and that’s what made games transgressive and interesting in the first place, such as KOTOR or BG or Origins or even ME1 at least a bit.

 

An “antagonist” is really kind of the easy way out as far as games go, it means you can check your own interpretations at the door, the writers are going to take care of all the complicated questions for you and so on.

 

Whether that gender of the character is male or female is 100% irrelevant ultimately. It's moving backwards from the idea that games are these interactive media which challenge your interpretations and ideas and instead retro-transforming them into the traditional media of movies or books where answers are the province of the creator and you are simply the passive recipient.

 

That's all a load of complete nonsense. Modern fiction has heavily suffered from the very wrong idea that 'greyness' equates automatically to maturity and insight. It's indicative of weak and shallow writers. It also depends on a very ridiculous and poorly reasoned grasp of what an audience's 'interpretation' is.