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[Sifr]

Death doesn't equate to "pain and harm" to Cole.  In fact, Cole thinks death is a possible cure to "pain and harm".  Especially if the Inquisitor doesn't say anything.

 

One could argue that Cole might assist Solas in his endeavors in an effort to relieve Solas' suffering...  And Solas doesn't want to take the chance that such assistance might corrupt Cole.

 

But we have to remember the context of when Cole says that, which is when he's asking for permission to perform euthanasia on the dying soldier from Haven. He tells us that the healers had done all they could for the soldier but did not believe he would survived, meaning his last few hours would be filled with agonising pain and suffering... which is anathema to a spirit of Compassion such as Cole.

 

Most of the plot of Asunder has Cole struggle with this dilemma, as his overwheming desire and natural instincts to help can lead to actions that some might find objectionable or be horrified by. The reason is because Spirits are by their very nature amoral, as they define themselves by the ideals they personify, rather than any arbitrary and flexible moral compass that mortals own.

 

Cole does not advocate death as a means to spare people from suffering, but only when there is nothing else that can possibly be done to help them. It's why he still advocates a mercy killing here, even though he learned otherwise in Asunder, because the situation is entirely different.

 

For the dying soldier, there is absolutely nothing he can to help him save for taking his life... whereas with the mages in the Spire (even though they wanted to die), he now realises that he could have helped them without ending their lives.

 

(Incidentally, if we stop Cole, it's heavily implied that the the soldier did pull through and is the same one who goes up to the ramparts to watch the birds, that Cole lures with breadcrumbs.)

 

I think that Cole would attempt to stop Solas because he recognises his friend as making the same mistake he made, trying to help by removing the problem entirely, rather than stopping to address the actual problem itself.

[Korva]

No, I'm sticking with my theory that in a game that is likely to be filled with a lot of people who hate Solas and want him dead (for pretty good reasons - they're not privy to everything we know) Cole is going to be a lead voice in the 'this guy is worth saving from himself' team.

 

This is what I fear, based on the way Cole was written in Trespasser. And I hugely resent the notion that this amazing character is being used as nothing more than a simplistic bully pulprit for a redemption arc. It's frustrating that we're never given the option to discuss Solas with all the companions, but especially with Cole due to his special insights and due to the way he's used to push a view of "poor sad little Solas is a good guy, really he is" on players at the price of ignoring the harm Solas is doing. I don't hope or believe that Cole knew everything, since that would totally break the character in my eyes.

[Illyria]

This is what I fear, based on the way Cole was written in Trespasser. And I hugely resent the notion that this amazing character is being used as nothing more than a simplistic bully pulprit for a redemption arc. It's frustrating that we're never given the option to discuss Solas with all the companions, but especially with Cole due to his special insights and due to the way he's used to push a view of "poor sad little Solas is a good guy, really he is" on players at the price of ignoring the harm Solas is doing. I don't hope or believe that Cole knew everything, since that would totally break the character in my eyes.

 

I'm afraid to say that Cole knew everything.  And it's hardly going to be a 'bully pulprit'.  Everyone is DA4 is likely going to be against Solas and want him stopped at any cost - Cole will offer a different view of a complex character.  Solas is hardly a good guy at this point, but he's not a bad guy either.  He's being driven to do something terrible out guilt and a sense of duty.  He needs to be stopped, and Cole offers a different view than 'this guy needs to be dead'.

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

I'm afraid to say that Cole knew everything.  And it's hardly going to be a 'bully pulprit'.  Everyone is DA4 is likely going to be against Solas and want him stopped at any cost - Cole will offer a different view of a complex character.  Solas is hardly a good guy at this point, but he's not a bad guy either.  He's being driven to do something terrible out guilt and a sense of duty.  He needs to be stopped, and Cole offers a different view than 'this guy needs to be dead'.

 

This is what I fear, based on the way Cole was written in Trespasser. And I hugely resent the notion that this amazing character is being used as nothing more than a simplistic bully pulprit for a redemption arc. It's frustrating that we're never given the option to discuss Solas with all the companions, but especially with Cole due to his special insights and due to the way he's used to push a view of "poor sad little Solas is a good guy, really he is" on players at the price of ignoring the harm Solas is doing. I don't hope or believe that Cole knew everything, since that would totally break the character in my eyes.

If we had been able to discuss Solas with the companions, it would have been that much better, really would have made Trespasser shine.

[Illyria]

If we had been able to discuss Solas with the companions, it would would have been that much better, really would have made Trespasser shine.

 

Agreed.  It stopped Trespasser from being the perfect DLC.

[Korva]

I'm afraid to say that Cole knew everything. 

If he knew everything, this supposedly positive character would be a complete lie and perversion. And worse, the game wouldn't even acknowledge it as such and allow us to react to it, as they did with Solas' and Blackwall's lies.

 

I have said this before, I'll say it again: compassion neither blind nor stupid, neither a wet blanket nor an enabler. Cole's spirit-path words about killing apply to Solas perfectly: Solas could change, but he chose to hurt others instead. In fact, he has hurt others already and shows no signs of stopping. His own pain is no excuse. Nothing about the Cole we got to know in Inquisition suggests that he would turn his back on the whole world's suffering and imminent destruction to coddle poor little Solas.

 

Listen to how sharp (by his soft-spoken standards) he is with Blackwall in one of their early banters when he says, "You would stop it if you could. That is enough. But don't do it again." Here, he is talking to someone who took blood money for the death of one man and didn't stop the butchery when he found out that the whole family would die. But Blackwall has since come to deeply regret this crime and turn his life around in service to others, if in a deeply flawed way. He has changed, he is no longer a danger to the innocent people that Cole, too, seeks to help and protect above all else.

 

Solas wouldn't stop it if he could. He is in the process of doing it again. And his plans are infinitely worse than the death of one family.

 

And it's hardly going to be a 'bully pulprit'.

 

I disagree -- that is exactly what the way Cole was used in Trespasser feels like to me. Solas-is-so-awesome this, Solas-is-so-awesome that. SolasSolasSolasSolasSolas. Interactions with the Inquisitor? Zero. A proper reunion, a single bonding moment? Crickets. Question him about Solas? Of course not. All he is to me in this DLC is a mouthpiece for the author's desire to get us to redeem Solas. It's a complete disservice to and waste of this unique character.

 

Everyone is DA4 is likely going to be against Solas and want him stopped at any cost

 

I wonder why. Poor little Solas.

 

Bioware basically sacrificed an entire game to set Solas up as a complex if massively flawed character, so the revelation of his true nature and plans would hit us like a ton of bricks on a personal level. Corypheus, the mage/templar conflict, the Chantry, Orlais, the Inquisition itself ... it was all just half-hearted window-dressing for the story they really wanted to tell. And while the base game has HUGE flaws (including the fact that the half-heartedness and lack of true passion and effort for the supposed story's themes were so damn obvious), the way they pulled Solas off was indeed brilliant. They should trust in that, on the undeniable effect it had on many players, instead of reducing Cole to a club to hit us with in order to reinforce Solas' better sides. If they want me to believe that those better sides were real and still exist, then Solas himself needs to demonstrate that.

[Darkstarr11]

If he knew everything, this supposedly positive character would be a complete lie and perversion. And worse, the game wouldn't even acknowledge it as such and allow us to react to it, as they did with Solas' and Blackwall's lies.

 

 

 

 

I think he DID know...repeatedly.  After replaying (and this time trying to pay close attention) I'm starting to think Solas removed the knowledge each time Cole read it from his mind.  If so, Solas's treatment of Cole almost appears borderline abuse.  Under the guise of 'for your own good', I'd wager.  Solas fought REALLY hard to keep Cole a spirit, and compassionate.  Would it be beyond him to limit Cole's experiences and knowledge to try to keep him that way?  There were too many times when Cole would allude to things with companions, but Solas tended to keep control of conversations with Cole.  Almost steering him towards and away from specific topics. Look how he shuts down Cole at the end of the Lavellan romance.  Removes the knowledge RIGHT from his mind.  Considering the ease with which he does so...can we REALLY think he doesn't do this regularly?

[Mlady]

I think he DID know...repeatedly.  After replaying (and this time trying to pay close attention) I'm starting to think Solas removed the knowledge each time Cole read it from his mind.  If so, Solas's treatment of Cole almost appears borderline abuse.  Under the guise of 'for your own good', I'd wager.  Solas fought REALLY hard to keep Cole a spirit, and compassionate.  Would it be beyond him to limit Cole's experiences and knowledge to try to keep him that way?  There were too many times when Cole would allude to things with companions, but Solas tended to keep control of conversations with Cole.  Almost steering him towards and away from specific topics. Look how he shuts down Cole at the end of the Lavellan romance.  Removes the knowledge RIGHT from his mind.  Considering the ease with which he does so...can we REALLY think he doesn't do this regularly?

 

The devs confirmed Cole knew everything. I think he even tried to hint it to Solas when he asked him innocently about wolves.

 

Twice Solas had to remove the memories from him though, not constantly. Once if you romanced him and Cole began to read his thoughts about people sleeping and hurting behind mirrors, and at the end of the game when it sounds as if he took over Cole's body for a moment. It's not really abuse, but he was no better than the Nightmare at that point in my opinion. Erasing memories for his own sake.

[Darkstarr11]

The devs confirmed Cole knew everything. I think he even tried to hint it to Solas when he asked him innocently about wolves.

 

Twice Solas had to remove the memories from him though, not constantly. Once if you romanced him and Cole began to read his thoughts about people sleeping and hurting behind mirrors, and at the end of the game when it sounds as if he took over Cole's body for a moment. It's not really abuse, but he was no better than the Nightmare at that point in my opinion. Erasing memories for his own sake.

 

Ahh, interesting.  He knew then, I wonder how much he understood?  I kinda agree with Korva, it was a ball dropped.  For Cole to do nothing about it, you'd think he'd been manipulated more.  Guess we'll see in the sequel though.  

 

Solas always went on about freedom...but he has resorted to some VERY unscrupulous ends to get there, hasn't he?  We become what we hate, right?

[Mlady]

Ahh, interesting.  He knew then, I wonder how much he understood?  I kinda agree with Korva, it was a ball dropped.  For Cole to do nothing about it, you'd think he'd been manipulated more.  Guess we'll see in the sequel though.  

 

Solas always went on about freedom...but he has resorted to some VERY unscrupulous ends to get there, hasn't he?  We become what we hate, right?

 

I have a feeling Solas kept Cole from doing anything without Cole knowing. Cole knew everything but had no idea why he couldn't say anything about it. He even says in Trespasser that Solas knows how to talk to spirits and have them do things, so I wonder if that's why when we make Cole human, in Trespasser he is less involved. If you kept him as a spirit, he is on team Solas right to the very end, telling you he's "not that kind of wolf" before you even know the truth.

 

I also found a line in JOH that felt like foreshadowing. When you collect Ameridan's memories, there's one where he is talking to about supporting both Elven Gods and the Maker. Cole quotes Ameridan talking to Drakon about it, then stops quoting and in present tense says "He doesn't see. Wants it simple. But I can help him get there. There's room for both." as if this person he's talking about is currently alive.

[Ellawynn]

Ahh, interesting.  He knew then, I wonder how much he understood?  I kinda agree with Korva, it was a ball dropped.  For Cole to do nothing about it, you'd think he'd been manipulated more.  Guess we'll see in the sequel though.  

 

Solas always went on about freedom...but he has resorted to some VERY unscrupulous ends to get there, hasn't he?  We become what we hate, right?

Well, maybe there's more to Solas' plan than we know. Maybe he's perfectly justified in saying it's a terrible path, but it's the best one available.

 

Think of the Blight, for instance. It's out. It's pretty much inevitable that it'll consume the world, sooner or later. The Darkspawn are distracted by archdemons now, but when they're not, it'll be Awakening on a massive scale. If Solas thinks the only way to prevent that is to tear down the Veil, wouldn't Cole go with it? Solas' plan would be a mercy kill with a chance for life after. Doing nothing would be a slow, painful death by the Blight, with nothing but a barren world left behind.