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[phishface]

With the Skyhold surgeon, the writers introduced a tiny and subtle subversion of magic in the Dragon Age world. She’s dismissive of magical healing, and briefly describes some broadly pre-Enlightenment medical concepts. Given time, we can imagine that medicine will evolve in Thedas just as it did in the real world. One day, there’ll be a Thedosian William Harvey.

 

For now, though, healing is one clearly good thing about magic. But are there any others? And how do they balance out against the bad?

 

No magic means no Mages and Templars, no circles, no abominations, demons, undead, blood sacrifices, old gods, and so on. This might represent the precise opposite direction to Solas’s: the final severing of any connection between the world and the Fade. The Veil would become impermeable, and then forgotten altogether.

 

I may well have it wrong, but it seems the first seeds of this idea are being sown now. It may be that the end of Dragon Age, perhaps by the time we get DA6 or DA12, will be an end to magic.

[myahele]

Well .... magic is the natural/original state of existence. But that's in the past and we're dealing with it in modern thedosian.

 

With that said, you can't get rid of magic unless there's a program in which mages are killed the instant they manifest their powers.

 

Power will always be abused ... but then again while non mage rulers can cause havok due to chains of command, a single mage ruler can cause havok by his/her own power

[riverbanks]

With that said, you can't get rid of magic unless there's a program in which mages are killed the instant they manifest their powers.

 

That's not what OP is suggesting, though. The idea is not the forceful erradication of magic via killing every mage, but the natural extinction of it through a long process of severing ties between the physical world and the Fade. We're possibly already on that path and don't even know it (with dwarves no longer having a connection to the Fade and surface dwarves losing connection to the Stone/Titans, the elves losing the old magic over time, etc), or even contributing to this every time we kill dragons, archdemons, etc - that's one point Yavanna and Morrigan have made, we're constantly eliminating ancient magic in this world that can't be recovered, without a second thought to it.

 

It's a fascinating idea -exploring how a world that was shaped by magic gradually disconnects from its origins and grows into its own independent and self-suficient form until magic no longer exists- and one I would love to see it as the endgame we're unwittingly walking towards; but I'm not sure that's where BioWare is taking this, at least not very soon. Perhaps as the very very final outcome of the series, when they don't have to deal with the fan outcries (of course, no matter how interesting a narrative concept it is or how well they pulled it off, there would inevitably be a mass commotion in this fandom if they took magic away from this universe, so leave it for the end, when it doesn't matter anymore).

[Xilizhra]

That would be utterly hellish for me, and I dearly hope that the plot instead moves away from magic's decline and goes toward its restoration.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I doubt there will be an end of magic as it seems series is going even more toward magic (solas, elven gods and titans) and sadly goes away mundane things and problems.Second magic is cause of majority problems and conflicts in dragon age so i doubt they will move away from it. 

 

In terms of healing but that only in certain field i find magic more benefical than even modern medicine, but that is about it when it comes to superiority over technology even qunari technology is more superior to magic avoiding our modern technology in military field.Pretty much magic in da has little to offer and causes a lot of trouble, so cons significantly overshadow pros of magic.  

[NeverlandHunter]

Weeeell MAGIC IS AMAZING AND AWESOME AND I WISH I COULD USE IT!

 

Buuut, I've actually gotten into a debate before on whether Thedas's magic holds back its science. I think it does. Why bother learning how to sew up a wound when you can drink a potion or call up a mage to magic that crap? Of course eventually people would learn how to do that, but I think having magic sets them back. There were good points to the other side of the argument though.

 

On the no magic in Thedas though, I don't think it would be a good idea to take it away. Perhaps it would make people truly tranquil? The world that Dragon Age is set in is a world of magic. I doubt taking it away would automatically make it like ours, it would probably end up having huuuuge enormous horrible consequences. 

 

 Maybe Dragon Age will end with us deciding on tearing down the Veil, completely cutting people of from the Fade (aka taking away magic), or leaving everything the same!

 

Edit: The Dalish travel using magic, people can learn things from history with magic (like Solas or like your Warden does with apparitions running around or with that potion in the Brecilian Forest), I'm sure there are magics that can help crops grow and what not, magic can also provide ways to travel great distances (the Eluvians), and I'm sure there are a lot of other positive things. 

 

It's one of the reasons I'm so excited about going to Tevinter. I can't wait to see what a land that has no crippling fears of magic can do with it. How can it be applied to mundane living? To art and architecture? Wynne talked a little about making Dog purple and giving him a new tail in Origins. What can people do to themselves with magic, but are to afraid to/not allowed to in the rest of Thedas? We've only seen the south's use of magic, and with a people so afraid of it of course we only see it being used for weapons and healing.

[riverbanks]

That would be utterly hellish for me, and I dearly hope that the plot instead moves away from magic's decline and goes toward its restoration.

 

Either way, unless the  universe stays static and largely as is to the end, wide-scale restoration or extinction of magic would be hellish for someone, as we all have different opinions on whether we want more or less magic in this world. Can't please everyone all the time.

 

...well, I suppose they could, if the series ends up with us splitting the universe into two completely irreconcillable branches, where on one path magic is fully restored and on another it is fully extinct. Pleases everyone by giving us all what we want, and since it's the end of the series it doesn't create continuity issues, so it doesn't truly matter anymore.

 

Still, either extiction or restoration of all magic in the world are highly hypothetical paths right now. We don't really have much solid basis to argue that the series is going in either direction, or even somewhere completely different.

[Cute Nug]

Mages in the current Thedas seem to poorly understand the magic that they use. In the side quest with Solas the self-proclaimed demon expert from Kirkwall reinforces the lack of understanding that mages have regarding what they can do.

 

If the use of magic and/or lyrium was having a negative effect on the Fade and/or Thedas it seems as if mages would be the last to know.

What if the current use of magic in the veiled Thedas was a slow toxic blight? One answer would be to outlaw the use of magic (assuming we could actually stop Solas) but that kind of logic would only appeal to idealists who think you can actually fix big problems like global warming or Thedas magic blight.

[Dabrikishaw]

I made a similar topic a few years back. Removing magic from the setting would remove 90% of the setting's major conflicts. The only things left would be generic politics and the Qunari technology.

[Andromelek]

On DA, having magic is the natural state, so, I assume things would be balanced prior to the Veil, aside from some dudes being more skilled and fcking up creatures elder than them, everything would be fine, after certain bald paranoic elf screwed it, the differences became more remarkable, people on current Thedas is living on an anti-natural state, it coukd be seen as good, but going against nature it's something bad, eventually that leads to diseases and chaos until the balance is achieved again.

[Carmen_Willow]

That would be utterly hellish for me, and I dearly hope that the plot instead moves away from magic's decline and goes toward its restoration.

With all the attendant Ka-Boom! and Chaos that Fen'Harel plans to introduce to restore it? 

 

Our own lore suggests that magic just withered away over the centuries as science and reason took hold. Morrigan suggests this in her argument for drinking from the well. But consider this: If most of the sentient beings now living on Thedas must die to restore magic to its former glory. Is it worth it?  And if you read some of the codices from the ancient library about what the "gods" were doing, do you really want it to return? It sounds like Tevinter on Steroids. This may be the overreaching question of the entire series. Is Magic worth the price Thedas pays for its existence? And if it can be "withered away" through technology, should it be?

 

P.S. I usually play a mage, so it would be interesting if one of my characters ended up being the last of the arcane generations.

[Xilizhra]

With all the attendant Ka-Boom! and Chaos that Fen'Harel plans to introduce to restore it? 

 

Our own lore suggests that magic just withered away over the centuries as science and reason took hold. Morrigan suggests this in her argument for drinking from the well. But consider this: If most of the sentient beings now living on Thedas must die to restore magic to its former glory. Is it worth it?  And if you read some of the codices from the ancient library about what the "gods" were doing, do you really want it to return? It sounds like Tevinter on Steroids. This may be the overreaching question of the entire series. Is Magic worth the price Thedas pays for its existence? And if it can be "withered away" through technology, should it be?

 

P.S. I usually play a mage, so it would be interesting if one of my characters ended up being the last of the arcane generations.

I seriously doubt that the only possible way that magic could be restored is through killing everyone on Thedas... not to mention the fact that any supposed dichotomy between magic and reason/science is utterly false. It was through superstition and ignorance that much of magic was killed off, not reason. But, while we certainly can be cautious in returning magic to the world, letting it die would be wholly unconscionable for me.

[sandalisthemaker]

If there was an option to stabilize Thedas and rid it of much chaos and strife by getting rid of magic, then I think that that's a viable option to take. 

 

Just look at the dwarves. They have/had a thriving society without magic. They seem just fine without dreams. People would get used to it and as generations passed would fully adjust to their new normal. 

 

That being said, I would like that to be an end-of-series type of thing, since the conflict and danger that magic poses is what drives most of the plot points of this series. 

[rpgfan321]

You know magic disappearing from the world was also depicted in Lord of the Rings with the coming of Men. The idea isn't that far-fetched given what happened in DA so far. That would be a super interesting idea to explore even though it has been done before (maybe with more explosions and drama than LotR where that one had a more solemn tone to it, iirc! /)*o*(\ )

 

As for the good magic can bring, enchantments doesn't always have to be for military use. If utilized more creatively, there can be like instant stove cooker or something with fire runes. Idk, but runes doesn't always have to be used for swords and daggers.

[dawnstone]

I don't think magic in Thedas is a good thing or a bad thing, it just is.

 

Thedas is not a 1:1 duplicate of our world, or even our universe. There are horrible things there that would still exist, if there were no magic leaking through the Veil - the Blight and the Darkspawn. Neither of these things originate from the Fade, they're from corrupted Titans, which are not magical, they are material. So, basically, cut the world off from magic completely, and you would have to fight the Darkspawn without mages, while they still have mages who get their power from the taint.

 

The creation of the Veil upended the natural order, which appears to have been based around some natural push and pull between the Fade(Immateriality) and the Titans(Materiality). It seems to me that the world is trying to set itself to rights, and both Mythal and Solas seem to be agents of this change back to the way things were, so the real problem can be dealt with - the Blight.

[Lumix19]

You know magic disappearing from the world was also depicted in Lord of the Rings with the coming of Men. The idea isn't that far-fetched given what happened in DA so far. That would be a super interesting idea to explore even though it has been done before (maybe with more explosions and drama than LotR where that one had a more solemn tone to it, iirc! /)*o*(\ )
 
As for the good magic can bring, enchantments doesn't always have to be for military use. If utilized more creatively, there can be like instant stove cooker or something with fire runes. Idk, but runes doesn't always have to be used for swords and daggers.

Celene does have a kettle with a fire rune in it to heat it up.

[rpgfan321]

Celene does have a kettle with a fire rune in it to heat it up.

I totally forgot about that. From TME, right? But then I guess access to mages and enchantments are more available to the wealthy, not commoners.

[Lumix19]

I totally forgot about that. From TME, right? But then I guess access to mages and enchantments are more available to the wealthy, not commoners.

Yeah from TME.

[The Baconer]

I'm not really seeing a subversion to magic within tongue-in-cheek pseudo-science babble. We're also hitting the classic fallacy: that science (medicine included) and magic exist in dichotomy. Magic is, quite emphatically, a science.

[Iakus]

Magic in Thedas is the very definition of Blessed With Suck  Between healing, manipulation of the elements, protective barriers, and such, mages can do incredible things.  But at the price of being subjected to constant temptations from demons, as well as the stigma of what past mages have done with the misuse of their power (and some mages continue to abuse their gifts)

 

I think even without Solas, magic is going to continue to increase in the world.  The Veil is becoming thin all on its own.  Wars, death, pain, blood magic, is all contributing to the Veil becoming very tin in places:  Soldier's Peak, Brecilian Forest, Kirkwall, Adamant.  It may be that given time, magic may gradually become an accepted facet of life on its own, just as it once was with Arlathan.  Hopefully with less Goa'uld Evanuris. 

[Sifr]

I'm not really seeing a subversion to magic within tongue-in-cheek pseudo-science babble. We're also hitting the classic fallacy: that science (medicine included) and magic exist in dichotomy. Magic is, quite emphatically, a science.

 

I'd say that as an Arcanist, Dagna's entire profession is basically to study the science of "sufficiently analysed magic".

 

[Uccio]

I´m curious to know if the budding medical studies could actually even compete with magic. Since magic can practically cure anything, so what would be the need to medical studies except for the mundanes should magic be costly for some reason? And looking at the price of medicial components today I don´t see that going so well for the poor people either. Someone will always take their cut. I don´t see a option except for low level studies, herbs and such which is already being done.

[Iakus]

I´m curious to know if the budding medical studies could actually even compete with magic. Since magic can practically cure anything, so what would be the need to medical studies except for the mundanes should magic be costly for some reason? And looking at the price of medicial components today I don´t see that going so well for the poor people either. Someone will always take their cut. I don´t see a option except for low level studies, herbs and such which is already being done.

WEll, healing magic seems to have largely vanished in DAI, so it might be handy to develop some science-based medicine as well 

[ComedicSociopathy]

Magic isn't simply mages and the Veil. It's also enhancement, lyrium and alchemy, all things that non-mages can manipulate and use for their own benefit.

 

Now, yes, most of the large problems in Thedas, such as the Blight, the Breach, Tevinter, the Mage-Templar War and Solas's doomsday plan, are caused by magic, but Thedas has largely incorporated magical studies into much of their understanding of science, which as a natural phenomenon in Thedas is basically scientific already.

 

Anyways, I suppose Thedas could be better overall if magic never existed, but than again, if that were case won't the Qunari have taken over the world by now with their gunpower and battleships? 

[thesuperdarkone2]

Anyone notice how the viddasala's plot involved destroying all magic and she is a villain? That should tell you what Bioware thinks about destroying all magic.