49 réponses à ce sujet

[ComedicSociopathy]

Anyone notice how the viddasala's plot involved destroying all magic and she is a villain? That should tell you what Bioware thinks about destroying all magic.

 

Isn't she the villain (more like a side villain) becuase she wants to, you know, blow up the exalted council more than just because she hypocritically hates magic. 

 

 

If there was an option to stabilize Thedas and rid it of much chaos and strife by getting rid of magic, then I think that that's a viable option to take. 

 

Just look at the dwarves. They have/had a thriving society without magic. They seem just fine without dreams. People would get used to it and as generations passed would fully adjust to their new normal. 

 

That being said, I would like that to be an end-of-series type of thing, since the conflict and danger that magic poses is what drives most of the plot points of this series. 

 

Orzammar's entire economy is based around selling and manipulating lyrium, a magical substance. 

[Iakus]

Anyone notice how the viddasala's plot involved destroying all magic and she is a villain? That should tell you what Bioware thinks about destroying all magic.

And Solas is willing to kill everyone on Thedas to bring magic back, so...

[The Ascendant]

I understand that magic is a very dangerous and controversial topic, and it is a fundamental aspect of the world of Thedas, indeed magic is a natural aspect of the world the Veil being an artificial construct dividing the material and immaterial worlds. In the Thedas we now inhabit magic is part of the world as constant as the sky or the sea. The world that Solas wants to restore is indeed a world of Elves and magic, but nothing else. I doubt that any one else will survive this violent and indeed apocalyptic transformation if the Breach is any indication. Magic has created great horrors, true but it is a source of wonder of becoming something more than mere mortals or indeed people, it allows to be the gods we have always aspired to be , be they good bad or something beyond comprehension. Therefore I am in favor of magic as it is today in Thedas. Like water, too much and we will drown, too little and we will die of thirst. In between is fine for me.   

[Vit246]

But at the price of being subjected to constant temptations from demons, 

Call me crazy, but I cannot recall a moment where I ever got this impression from mages, like ever. None of the mages (the ones that weren't already hopeless to begin with) look or sound like people constantly tempted by demons. For the most part, they are functional beings.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Call me crazy, but I cannot recall a moment where I ever got this impression from mages, like ever. None of the mages (the ones that weren't already hopeless to begin with) look or sound like people constantly tempted by demons. For the most part, they are functional beings.

 

Yeah. Some mages are demon bait, while others can stroll in the Fade and shrug at Nightmare demons. Everybody's different. 

[Iakus]

Call me crazy, but I cannot recall a moment where I ever got this impression from mages, like ever. None of the mages (the ones that weren't already hopeless to begin with) look or sound like people constantly tempted by demons. For the most part, they are functional beings.

 Codex entries outright state that mages touching the Fade attracts demons.  Isseya in Last Flight heard demonic whisperings every single time she touched the Fade.  HEck the whole point of the Harrowing is to make sure a mage can resist demonic temptation.

 

Just because you can resist demons doesn't mean the aren't there, looking for a moment of weakness.

[TK514]

For the people of Thedas?  No.  Most of Thedas' history is one example after another of magical abuse and/or catastrophe, starting with the Elven Gods.  The rare healers aren't, for me, enough to make up for the repeated incidents where some mage or other almost conquered/destroyed the world or some such.

 

For the setting, as a work of fiction?  It's great.  Any time you need a problem/antagonist, magic is there, waiting to screw things up again.

[Wulfram]

Magic nowadays seems to do very little good that's not basically fighting other things that are magic or created by magic. Its hard to say its a net benefit.

However, mages can still be argued to be a net benefit, because you wouldn't want to deal with all the rest of the magical crap without them.

Back in Arlathan days there seems to have been more good mixed with the bad, magic was actually serving productive purpose - which of course is why they got totally screwed up when Solas created the veil. And they probably had something really bad and magical brewing to cause Solas' action.

[Vit246]

 Codex entries outright state that mages touching the Fade attracts demons.  Isseya in Last Flight heard demonic whisperings every single time she touched the Fade.  HEck the whole point of the Harrowing is to make sure a mage can resist demonic temptation.

 

Just because you can resist demons doesn't mean the aren't there, looking for a moment of weakness.

 

Gameplay and Story Segregation?

My mage protagonists don't seem to experience this. My mage companions don't act like it. Many mage NPCs etc.

Is it exaggerated or is it under-represented?

I dunno, I feel like there is a disconnect or inconsistency between what the codex says and....everything else.

[phishface]

For the setting, as a work of fiction?  It's great.  Any time you need a problem/antagonist, magic is there, waiting to screw things up again.

 

Oh I absolutely agree. The whole magic and mages thing is a great narrative tool. I also like what they've done with it - following through on all the complications that would follow from having magic in the world.

[Iakus]

Gameplay and Story Segregation?

My mage protagonists don't seem to experience this. My mage companions don't act like it. Many mage NPCs etc.

Is it exaggerated or is it under-represented?

I dunno, I feel like there is a disconnect or inconsistency between what the codex says and....everything else.

My thought is it's under-represented.  Or else why would abominations be so feared?  Why make mages go through the Harrowing?  WHy is the Fade considered so dangerous?

[Dabrikishaw]

Yes the way magic is handled in Dragon Age means you can use anything magical in nature to cause a conflict for a game's worth of plot. That's why I answered the way I did. Remove everything magical and Thedas is far better off relevantly speaking.

[berelinde]

Every time I read this topic's title, I think "So, gravity. Are you down with it?"

 

Like gravity, magic is part of the world. Probably better get used to it.

[Xilizhra]

My thought is it's under-represented.  Or else why would abominations be so feared?  Why make mages go through the Harrowing?  WHy is the Fade considered so dangerous?

For the same reason people fear nuclear power: when things go wrong, it's terrifying, regardless of its frequency or lack thereof.

 

Inquisition really seems to drive the point home that spontaneous (not deliberately created) abominations are extremely rare. Kirkwall was cursed and Kinloch Hold was subject to a cascade; when a powerful abomination is surrounded by mages, it invariably tries to create more abominations, it seems. But even with the Veil weakened across southern Thedas in Inquisition, there were no notable abomination incidents.

[phishface]

Every time I read this topic's title, I think "So, gravity. Are you down with it?"

 

Like gravity, magic is part of the world. Probably better get used to it.

 

Bioware has form for messing with fundamental things like gravity, often with a massively popular effect.

[Iakus]

For the same reason people fear nuclear power: when things go wrong, it's terrifying, regardless of its frequency or lack thereof.

 

Inquisition really seems to drive the point home that spontaneous (not deliberately created) abominations are extremely rare. Kirkwall was cursed and Kinloch Hold was subject to a cascade; when a powerful abomination is surrounded by mages, it invariably tries to create more abominations, it seems. But even with the Veil weakened across southern Thedas in Inquisition, there were no notable abomination incidents.

Interestingly, I think Inquisition understated the overall threat of demons in general given all the tears in the veil.

[The Ascendant]

Do we really want to hear demons whispering every single time we cast a spell?

[The Baconer]

I also wonder how many things we take for granted as being mundane also have some basis in magic. Stuff like physiology and physics that would, by our own world's standards, be impossible. 

 

Then of course, there's the Maker. If it exists, would it not be an entity of the supernatural? 

[Xilizhra]

Interestingly, I think Inquisition understated the overall threat of demons in general given all the tears in the veil.

Oh, demons are dangerous, but them actually possessing people has been shown to be very rare outside of specific circumstances.

[Iakus]

I also wonder how many things we take for granted as being mundane also have some basis in magic. Stuff like physiology and physics that would, by our own world's standards, be impossible. 

 

Then of course, there's the Maker. If it exists, would it not be an entity of the supernatural? 

Like elven immortality of old?  The Qunari legend of having dragon blood within them?  Stuff like the Blight, vitaar, dwarven explosives (lyrium based).  

 

Also, being able to throw jars of bees at enemies like grenades has got to be some sort of dark magic 

 

Oh, demons are dangerous, but them actually possessing people has been shown to be very rare outside of specific circumstances.

Actually I mean if there were ten or so holes in the veil with demons pouring out of them, I'd expect demons to be a major threat to all the factions in  and around Redcliffe.  Mages,Templars, bandits and refugees would be too busy to fight each other

[myahele]

We also have to keep in mind that spirit/demons are just as much of a victim as people are: they get forcibly bound, pieces of themselves are ripped from them to fuel a mages (necromancer) magic etc

[Carmen_Willow]

I seriously doubt that the only possible way that magic could be restored is through killing everyone on Thedas... not to mention the fact that any supposed dichotomy between magic and reason/science is utterly false. It was through superstition and ignorance that much of magic was killed off, not reason. But, while we certainly can be cautious in returning magic to the world, letting it die would be wholly unconscionable for me.

As I said, I love magic, play a mage most of the time. But if you look at the overarching theme of the DA series, the questions is whether or not magic is worth the cost. Think of Gamlen, mourning his sister and his words. Think of Fenris and his feelings re mages and their power plays. Think of Cullen in Origins, tortured by magic. Not all mages are as moral as you and I, and many don't have to become abominations to do massive amounts of damage. The power mages wield is neutral, the people who wield it seldom are.

 

<BIG MASSIVE TRESPASSER SPOILER>

Spoiler

In Trespasser, Solas tells us that in order to restore his world to what it was, he must take down the veil and most of us now on Thedas will perish in order to bring it about. He's sorry about that, but he wants his old world back, and because he has the power to do it, he's going to do it. (Apparently taking down the veil will cause a great disruption in the time/space continuum, some sort of massive realignment of reality at the quantum level,.)

And IRL, I'd want to know your definition of magic. I would agree that science is now beginning to understand some things that were considered "magic." I suspect that as we understand quantum physics in all its attendant weirdness, much more of what we consider supernatural or psychic will be explained and understood.

[Carmen_Willow]

Isn't she the villain (more like a side villain) becuase she wants to, you know, blow up the exalted council more than just because she hypocritically hates magic. 

 

 

 

Orzammar's entire economy is based around selling and manipulating lyrium, a magical substance. 

I'm sure the nug and deepstalker hide trade would see a big upswing, plus I bet there's are other valuable minerals in the ground like, well, you know, gold. (just removed tongue from cheek).

[TheKomandorShepard]

Every time I read this topic's title, I think "So, gravity. Are you down with it?"

 

Like gravity, magic is part of the world. Probably better get used to it.

Magic is nothing like gravity , it is unstable menace that keeps causing constantly trouble. 

[Lady Artifice]

That surgeon bugged me.

 

Ignoring a resource when lives are at stake is stupid.