444 réponses à ce sujet

[Killroy]

I have never liked a MGS game.  I have never liked even a Mario Bros game.   Too stupid.
 
Save the Princess.  Save Quiet. 
 
Wow.  WHAT A SHOCKER.

Not liking Mario is like not liking laughter. You should never tell anyone you feel this way ever again.

[Danadenassis]

Gender selection isn't the same thing as imaginary races at all.
And pick an argument and stick to it. Should they do it and make it not have an impact or should they do it and make it have an impact on the story? Because if it's the former my argument stands. If it's the latter that would be quite the trick seeing as how BioWare has never managed to do that.

I am not inconsistent. Gender/colour/... doesn't have to matter for the story. It can matter for the story, but only if the designers and writers make it so. It is a choice.

 

However, gender/race/colour/... matters for the players. Even for you. Just as the story matter for you.

 

To use an analogy. Imagine driving a nice car on your favourite road. Imagine driving a car you do not like on your favourite road. Imagine cycling on your favourite road. Imagine walking on your favourite road. Imagine walking on your favourite road in shoes that hurts.

 

The same road, but it will be different experiences.

 

Personally am I all for even superficial and obvious simple skin jobs when it comes to gender and race rather than having no choice. I'd of course wish for something deeper, but who would not? For instance have I stopped buying games that doesn't support a female main character, or a choice. In Shadows of Mordor did they have a simple skin job and it worked for me. True, all the movie clips was with the default skin, but I just imagined that this was the "skin-job" that was following the tracks of the default skin character. Yes, some make believe, but for me was it acceptable and really so much more effort than I usually have to do with most games to make them seem slightly more logical.

 

Imagine that I felt bad for confronting your lack of self-awareness, but then I saw your replies and I got cured of any such thoughts instantly.

[Danadenassis]

I hope you're not advocating a delay so that they can add playable races... I'm indifferent to playable races as a concept. I doubt I'd use the option but if it's something the devs really want to do then, go for it, whatever. If, however,  it means a delay to a game I've been waiting four years for, I will rage at the idea.

 

I'm pretty Zen usually but I just want to play the damn game already. 

 

I am.

[Ahriman]

 For instance have I stopped buying games that doesn't support a female main character, or a choice.

Oh boy, that's deep. Good thing that most gamers are more interested in story or gameplay than contents of protagonist's pants and game developers don't have to pander to 1001 types of preferences so there's still place for an actual game.

[mrjack]

Is DA4 even being actively developed? Last I heard the Dragon Age team was twiddling their thumbs while waiting for the next game to be greenlit.

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that DA4 has been green-lit but that information hasn't been made public. When they do decide to go into full production, which I think will be some time in the new year, it won't take massive amounts of time to complete compared to say CP2077 where all art assets have to be made from scratch.

 

CDPR have said that they won't even start talking about CP2077 until 2017 and it won't have a full team working on it until TW3 has finished its DLC cycle so I think that DA4 and CP2077 will release around the same time which is late 2017 or early 2018 but I still think we'll DA4 first.

 

Don't ask me where the #SecretIP fits into all of this.

 

Personally am I all for even superficial and obvious simple skin jobs when it comes to gender and race rather than having no choice. I'd of course wish for something deeper, but who would not? For instance have I stopped buying games that doesn't support a female main character, or a choice. In Shadows of Mordor did they have a simple skin job and it worked for me. True, all the movie clips was with the default skin, but I just imagined that this was the "skin-job" that was following the tracks of the default skin character. Yes, some make believe, but for me was it acceptable and really so much more effort than I usually have to do with most games to make them seem slightly more logical.

 

Please stop saying "skin job". It sounds kinda sick and murder-y 

[mrjack]

Oh boy, that's deep. Good thing that most gamers are more interested in story or gameplay than contents of protagonist's pants and game developers don't have to pander to 1001 types of preferences so there's still place for an actual game.

 

Not this old chestnut. It's only pandering when it's not to you, right? Otherwise it's just good story telling.

 

Even a game like AC:Syndicate has a male/female choice and it has no other character customisation beyond outfits and it's a much better game for it. I love playing as both Evie and Jacob.

[Ahriman]

Not his old chestnut. It's only pandering when it's not to you, right? Otherwise it's just good story telling.

 

Even a game like AC:Syndicate has a male/female choice and it has no other character customisation beyond outfits and it's a much better game for it. I love playing as both Evie and Jacob.

And skill systems make some games more enjoyable for me, but I don't boycott games which don't have any. Because nobody cares what I boycott apparently.

[mrjack]

And skill systems make some games more enjoyable for me, but I don't boycott games which don't have any. Because nobody cares what I boycott apparently.

 

It's a very small list but there are certain things that will make me boycott a game (well... just not purchase it - there are no protests in the streets or anything) and I doubt any developer or anyone for that matter cares but it's my money and making my tiny little stand makes me feel better.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Well, to be fair Bioware initially said DAI was going to be human-only but then during the delay they were able to add the other races. Maybe something similar could happen again.

Then again who knows? It might happen if they decide to give it a shot, just tired of just playing the N7 superhero all the time. At least set it up different stories for us to play and to interact with a human character. But hopefully they changed their minds about putting different playable races. Who knows?

[Malleficae]

Problem with DAI was that they've made story connected to race and let you be one of specific group of this race it's tied to. As Dalish you can ask who is elven god! When I was playing other races there was nothing wrong. They reacted to me being short/tall and other stuff. It was good. You know what was REAL problem? Few reactions to you being mage which is far far FAR FAR FAR FAR more important in this specific universe.

 

Since most of races are same height in ME they would have far less job with animations! There is nothing wrong with adding more races. I would recomend most humanish for sake of easy character creator: asari, quarian and drell. Honestly, I would be happy even if they only added asari for pervy teens! I only wish to don't play human again in sci-fi because it's boring as hell. :c

[Sidney]

I am not inconsistent. Gender/colour/... doesn't have to matter for the story. It can matter for the story, but only if the designers and writers make it so. It is a choice.
 
However, gender/race/colour/... matters for the players. Even for you. Just as the story matter for you.
 
To use an analogy. Imagine driving a nice car on your favourite road. Imagine driving a car you do not like on your favourite road. Imagine cycling on your favourite road. Imagine walking on your favourite road. Imagine walking on your favourite road in shoes that hurts.
 
The same road, but it will be different experiences.
 
Personally am I all for even superficial and obvious simple skin jobs when it comes to gender and race rather than having no choice. I'd of course wish for something deeper, but who would not? For instance have I stopped buying games that doesn't support a female main character, or a choice. In Shadows of Mordor did they have a simple skin job and it worked for me. True, all the movie clips was with the default skin, but I just imagined that this was the "skin-job" that was following the tracks of the default skin character. Yes, some make believe, but for me was it acceptable and really so much more effort than I usually have to do with most games to make them seem slightly more logical.
 
Imagine that I felt bad for confronting your lack of self-awareness, but then I saw your replies and I got cured of any such thoughts instantly.

I find wanting "even superficial" changes extremely, well superficial. No one cares that there isn't a male Laura Croft because no one actually cares about her gender in that game. Pick any AC protagonist -- again no one cares nor should they what is under that robe.

In many cases it isn't even that simple. I don't want a Batgirl vs Batman option because those are two different characters who should be in different stories and aren't just reskins of one another.

The gender selections work in ME and DA because they've decided to dodge any gender related issues ( as opposed to race) but if there was a game set as a solider of fortune in 16th century France I'd expect that gender selections wouldn't be available or if they were they'd need to deal with them in a serious way to explain why they aren't there.

[Sidney]

Problem with DAI was that they've made story connected to race and let you be one of specific group of this race it's tied to. As Dalish you can ask who is elven god! When I was playing other races there was nothing wrong. They reacted to me being short/tall and other stuff. It was good. You know what was REAL problem? Few reactions to you being mage which is far far FAR FAR FAR FAR more important in this specific universe.
 
Since most of races are same height in ME they would have far less job with animations! There is nothing wrong with adding more races. I would recomend most humanish for sake of easy character creator: asari, quarian and drell. Honestly, I would be happy even if they only added asari for pervy teens! I only wish to don't play human again in sci-fi because it's boring as hell. :c

Well the Mage reaction is bad especially given that mages apparently can't stop dressing like idiots and carrying around huge sticks. They sorta stand out. The reactions to races are very inconsistent and really almost non-existent in DAO. DAI does a better job with elves but the dwarf and Qnari basically suck.

I don't see how humans in scifi are boring. There are plenty of great human protagonists in literature, film and TV in scifi sho didn't get the "you are boring" memo. Bad characters are bad no matter who they are, good characters are good no matter who look and feel they have.

[Malleficae]

Well the Mage reaction is bad especially given that mages apparently can't stop dressing like idiots and carrying around huge sticks. They sorta stand out. The reactions to races are very inconsistent and really almost non-existent in DAO. DAI does a better job with elves but the dwarf and Qnari basically suck.

I don't see how humans in scifi are boring. There are plenty of great human protagonists in literature, film and TV in scifi sho didn't get the "you are boring" memo. Bad characters are bad no matter who they are, good characters are good no matter who look and feel they have.

 

I played elf in DAO and I had tons of reactions, especially when I was before GW joining - once you're GW, no one cares about your race since you save their asses. In DAI I played elf and had very few reactions, I just finished playing qunari and I had tons of reactions. Perhaps we played different games...

 

Yeah, there is PLENTY of good human protags already. We don't need more. They are overused. We need something new. It doesn't need to be forced but we need chance to choose something else.

[Sidney]

I
Yeah, there is PLENTY of good human protags already. We don't need more. They are overused. We need something new. It doesn't need to be forced but we need chance to choose something else.

We don't need more? So at what point did we reach the limit for human protagonists and their ability to be interesting in scifi? Did the Martian put us over that limit? The new Star Wars (maybe debatable if that is "good")? When Seveneves was published? Maybe DarkOrbit's publication?

I'm not saying it has to be human but you can't dismiss out of hand human centric or human driven scifi stories.

[Malleficae]

We don't need more? So at what point did we reach the limit for human protagonists and their ability to be interesting in scifi? Did the Martian put us over that limit? The new Star Wars (maybe debatable if that is "good")? When Seveneves was published? Maybe DarkOrbit's publication?

I'm not saying it has to be human but you can't dismiss out of hand human centric or human driven scifi stories.

 

You can make another pretty flower painting but what's the point if there is already tons of flower paintings considered pretty? 

[Lucca_de_Neon]

You can make another pretty flower painting but what's the point if there is already tons of flower paintings considered pretty? 

With that idea, what's the point of painting? i should just stop doing what i want to do.

[RoboticWater]

I played elf in DAO and I had tons of reactions, especially when I was before GW joining - once you're GW, no one cares about your race since you save their asses. In DAI I played elf and had very few reactions, I just finished playing qunari and I had tons of reactions. Perhaps we played different games...

 

Yeah, there is PLENTY of good human protags already. We don't need more. They are overused. We need something new. It doesn't need to be forced but we need chance to choose something else.

Humans are overused as protagonists just like text is overused as a medium. We as a society don't need an alien protagonist so that we can have something new.

 

You can make another pretty flower painting but what's the point if there is already tons of flower paintings considered pretty? 

Are you saying that every flower painting after 2,353rd flower painting has been worthless? I guess we should inform all the art schools. You're being completely reductionist. Heck, a skilled painter can make dozens paintings of the same flower that each distinctly valuable.

 

Besides, races in Mass Effect are all just caricatures of humans anyway. Living stereotypes wearing funny costumes. If the costumes weren't so expensive to make, then I might be on your side, but making a convincing krogan takes more work than changing skin tones and making superficial changes to anatomy. No matter what happened, you would always be playing a human placed in human stories and dealing with human problems. Multiple races gives you slightly more creative slack for your imaginary roleplaying, but every inch of slack costs far too much to justify it.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I don't see how humans in scifi are boring. There are plenty of great human protagonists in literature, film and TV in scifi sho didn't get the "you are boring" memo. Bad characters are bad no matter who they are, good characters are good no matter who look and feel they have.

It is boring of just focusing on a human and nothing else and the reason why that DA:I didn't do a good job with their race selection is because they don't put no depth into the character's background, no character development on each race, and lack of passion for each race for make it not to play them. They should take their time doing it, that way they get people want to play different people and not rush through making playable races unbearable to play. They did fine with Origins and they should take the same style for Origins and put it to use for ME:A to make it more enjoyable to play different races, not just playing human.

[Battlebloodmage]

It is boring of just focusing on a human and nothing else and the reason why that DA:I didn't do a good job with their race selection is because they don't put no depth into the character's background, no character development on each race, and lack of passion for each race for make it not to play them. They should take their time doing it, that way they get people want to play different people and not rush through making playable races unbearable to play. They did fine with Originsz they should take the same thing in Origins and put it to use for ME:A.

It's too late at this point though unless they they delay the game further to add playable race. It then becomes whether such a venture would be worth it, and based on DA, most people still play as humans. Plus, would adding races increase sales? These kinds of delay would also have to go through EA, and EA has a habit of pushing out games faster than they would have. They have a lot of stuffs to do with new engine, staff changes, deadline, and a lot to prove after the ME3's "artistic integrity". I don't think playable race would be possible with this game, but the next game, maybe if it's not another trilogy.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

It's too late at this point though unless they they delay the game further to add playable race. It then becomes whether such a venture would be worth it, and based on DA, most people still play as humans. Plus, would adding races increase sales? These kinds of delay would also have to go through EA, and EA has a habit of pushing out games faster than they would have. They have a lot of stuffs to do with new engine, staff changes, deadline, and a lot to prove after the ME3's "artistic integrity". I don't think playable race would be possible with this game, but the next game, maybe if it's not another trilogy.

They should've been working on it and not rush through the release date to take the time to make their game and asking people for fresh ideas and put into reality for players to enjoy, instead of rushing to meet the deadline and end up making a rushed game that us just put together and hope for the best. They should take their time making the game and not have to feel rushed.

[In Exile]

It is boring of just focusing on a human and nothing else and the reason why that DA:I didn't do a good job with their race selection is because they don't put no depth into the character's background, no character development on each race, and lack of passion for each race for make it not to play them. They should take their time doing it, that way they get people want to play different people and not rush through making playable races unbearable to play. They did fine with Origins and they should take the same style for Origins and put it to use for ME:A to make it more enjoyable to play different races, not just playing human.

 

"Lack of passion" is a nonsense criticism. In DA:O, 99% of the time there's no difference between elf/dwarf/human. In fact, 99% of the time you're just treated as if you were a human, with absolutely no prejudice at all. 

[KaiserShep]

My problem with the idea of lack of passion is that race options are a mere technicality, nothing more. It says nothing for the amount of work the devs put into their work.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It's too late at this point though unless they they delay the game further to add playable race. It then becomes whether such a venture would be worth it, and based on DA, most people still play as humans. Plus, would adding races increase sales? These kinds of delay would also have to go through EA, and EA has a habit of pushing out games faster than they would have. They have a lot of stuffs to do with new engine, staff changes, deadline, and a lot to prove after the ME3's "artistic integrity". I don't think playable race would be possible with this game, but the next game, maybe if it's not another trilogy.

It would get me to buy the game. So the answer is yes it would increase sales. 

[In Exile]

You can make another pretty flower painting but what's the point if there is already tons of flower paintings considered pretty? 

 

"Race" choice isn't making a different kind of painting. It's calling it a drawing instead. Every "non" human is just a human with a rubber mask. Non-human means, say, non-sapient insectoid alien that reproduces by inseminating the live young of other species, with no language or culture or higher brain function. Every other "alien" is just a human in a funny mask. 

[Killroy]

It would get me to buy the game. So the answer is yes it would increase sales.

You're gonna buy it either way.