444 réponses à ce sujet

[Killroy]

Nope. They are written by humans so they aren't that far from humans, they aren't unimaginable. Just some imagination and lore knowledge and you are can play as alien no problem. And there is no need for races to play differently or game react differently to them most of the time. Only thing is bring some lore in the dialogue between our character and other Milky Wayan characters. Since developers already have written dialogue for major characters like Liara, Garrus and Thane there should be no problem.

You keep proving my point. If there's no effective difference between races then it's a purely aesthetic choice.

[Laughing_Man]

You keep proving my point. If there's no effective difference between races then it's a purely aesthetic choice.

 

You seem to have trouble understanding the concept of "Role-Play".

 

You can play an undead necromancer that eats children for breakfast even if you are a vegeterian in real life.

 

You imagine a certain mind-set, add to it motivations appropriate to the character, and roll with it.

 

 

Of course we can't know what a real alien thinks like, but there's nothing to stop us from trying to imagine it.

[Killroy]

You seem to have trouble understanding the concept of "Role-Play".
You can play an undead necromancer that eats children for breakfast even if you are a vegeterian in real life.
You imagine a certain mind-set, add to it motivations appropriate to the character, and roll with it.
 
Of course we can't know what a real alien thinks like, but there's nothing to stop us from trying to imagine it.

You can imagine you're playing whatever you like even if your PC is a human on the screen. I'm talking about resource allocation. Race selection would amount to nothing but an aesthetic choice for players and headaches for BioWare.

[Panda]

You keep proving my point. If there's no effective difference between races then it's a purely aesthetic choice.

 

That doesn't make race choice meaningless. It'd still be feature loved by many players who like to roleplay and want to play as alien. There would be enough difference in the dialogue to make the playthrough with alien PC feel like you are playing as non-human characters. This is Bioware's game after all, not Bethesda's, Bioware has done this in DA side and although not perfect it has pleased players.

[Laughing_Man]

You can imagine you're playing whatever you like even if your PC is a human on the screen. I'm talking about resource allocation. Race selection would amount to nothing but an aesthetic choice for players and headaches for BioWare.

 

Well, you did claim that it's impossible to really think like an alien.

 

And no, it's not simply aesthetic, Playing a Krogan should have an entirely different feel to it, especially during gameplay.

But when it comes to the story content, I agree that BW to do more to recognize the player's choices.

 

As far as resources go, I would gladly give up romances to see this instead.

[Killroy]

That doesn't make race choice meaningless. It'd still be feature loved by many players who like to roleplay and want to play as alien.

All kinds of stuff would be loved by some players. That's not a good enough reason to allocate tons of resources to it.

There would be enough difference in the dialogue to make the playthrough with alien PC feel like you are playing as non-human characters. This is Bioware's game after all, not Bethesda's, Bioware has done this in DA side and although not perfect it has pleased players.

Have you even played Dragon Age? The race selection has amounted to nothing outside of the origin segments in DAO. It's especially pointless in DAI where race selection was added late in development and the Qunari option was an afterthought. It has no impact on the game and is a purely aesthetic choice. And in the case of DAI race selection was a hindrance. It made the Inquisitor boring as hell and everyone around him/her more boring because of it. Everything was made more generic to accommodate races and some of the coolest content they showed off a year or so before launch ended up not being in the game because of resource constraints.

[Killroy]

Well, you did claim that it's impossible to really think like an alien.

And I stand by that.
 

And no, it's not simply aesthetic, Playing a Krogan should have an entirely different feel to it, especially during gameplay.
But when it comes to the story content, I agree that BW to do more to recognize the player's choices.

It is purely aesthetic since BioWare has shown they aren't capable of making race selection anything more than an aesthetic choice.
 

As far as resources go, I would gladly give up romances to see this instead.

How many people do you think would agree with that? And why do you think romances and race selection are a 1:1 resource amount? Each race would require a different character creator, unique armor skins, animations and voice accommodations. Romances are just dialog options and a few cutscenes.

[Panda]

All kinds of stuff would be loved by some players. That's not a good enough reason to allocate tons of resources to it.


Have you even played Dragon Age? The race selection has amounted to nothing outside of the origin segments in DAO. It's especially pointless in DAI where race selection was added late in development and the Qunari option was an afterthought. It has no impact on the game and is a purely aesthetic choice. And in the case of DAI race selection was a hindrance. It made the Inquisitor boring as hell and everyone around him/her more boring because of it. Everything was made more generic to accommodate races and some of the coolest content they showed off a year or so before launch ended up not being in the game because of resource constraints.

 

It's not just some players though. If there was race selection in ME, it would likely be one of main features that is loved by tons of people, just like in DA. There surely would be lot of people who wouldn't even touch human if that option was available. Even if there wasn't any differences other than appearance it would still be like that.

 

Yes, obviously I have played DA. It did amount more than that, there was different dialogue, people reacting you differently and your Origin followed you during the game. It made killing Howe personal, it made darkspawn attack at camp personal, it made choosing king of Orzammar personal etc. Race selection wasn't done as well in DAI since it was late addition and not something thought out from the start, but there really is no knowledge if it was hindrance or not since we don't know if protagonist was like they were because of race selection or would they have been like that no matter what. I'm thinking latter due to race selection being late addition and humans being default.

[Laughing_Man]

And I stand by that.
 

It is purely aesthetic since BioWare has shown they aren't capable of making race selection anything more than an aesthetic choice.
 

How many people do you think would agree with that?

 

Like I said, that's irrelevant, you don't need to know what an actual alien would think, because due to obvious reasons, that is rather impossible now.

You only need to roleplay what you imagine the Alien viewpoint to be. And the game needs to respond in that manner as well.

 

Again, not purely aesthetic, try playing a Krogan in ME3 MP, it feels completely different.

And if the game also responds appropriately during the story to your race, all the better.

 

You might be surprised by how many are sick of the entire virtual pimp simulator.

"Romance" lost most of its charm, at least in my eyes.

[malloc]

Races in bioware games rarely are contextual
Apart from a few dialog choices you don't really get much of a difference as playing with the other races. Same as their classes (very shallow design but it works for them). I would love if specializations added a deeper layer of world interaction and we actually used our skills to solve problems but that seems like too much for the type of game they are making.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

One of the key elements of Mass Effect so far has been the dynamic of humanity's role in a political galaxy, as expressed through a human protagonist.

 

Of course, this is as close to a new IP as one can get, while still technically being an existing franchise. As such, all bets are off, as far as what dynamics, species-related or otherwise, are going to form the thrust of the new game.

 

Whether the protagonist can be non-human or not isn't going to mean much on its own. Being human-only will be the best choice if that is what thematically suits the story and context being created for the new game. If the unity of different species working together while cut off from their government were a dynamic, then limiting us to humans would weaken the game somewhat.

 

I don't know enough details to have a preference (apart from the "all things being equal more choice is better" principle.) Whichever direction they go, it is far better to make the choice early, dedicate the appropriate resources to that choice, and follow through with it in all aspects, so that the story is reactive to the player's species and role, regardless of whether humanity is one of the variables, or not.

 

Races in bioware games rarely are contextual
Apart from a few dialog choices you don't really get much of a difference as playing with the other races. Same as their classes (very shallow design but it works for them). I would love if specializations added a deeper layer of world interaction and we actually used our skills to solve problems but that seems like too much for the type of game they are making.

 

You turned up!

 

 

I made a bet that would happen.

[Killroy]

It's not just some players though. If there was race selection in ME, it would likely be one of main features that is loved by tons of people, just like in DA. There surely would be lot of people who wouldn't even touch human if that option was available. Even if there wasn't any differences other than appearance it would still be like that.

Most players played human characters in Origins and Inquisition despite having more non-human options available. Why put the resources into race selection when there's no audience to gain or lose/alienate?
 

Yes, obviously I have played DA. It did amount more than that, there was different dialogue, people reacting you differently and your Origin followed you during the game. It made killing Howe personal, it made darkspawn attack at camp personal, it made choosing king of Orzammar personal etc.

What did those "personal" moments amount to that RP'ing in your head couldn't accomplish? A few lines of dialogue and same choices offered? Again, why waste the resources?

Race selection wasn't done as well in DAI since it was late addition and not something thought out from the start, but there really is no knowledge if it was hindrance or not since we don't know if protagonist was like they were because of race selection or would they have been like that no matter what. I'm thinking latter due to race selection being late addition and humans being default.

So much content was cut from Inquisition and the Inquisitor was so generic. Why were they cutting content late in development and adding race selection? Because they only have so many resources and compromises have to be made.

Like I said, that's irrelevant, you don't need to know what an actual alien would think, because due to obvious reasons, that is rather impossible now.
You only need to roleplay what you imagine the Alien viewpoint to be. And the game needs to respond in that manner as well.

Why can't you do that with a human avatar? If it's all about what's in your head then why does your imagination stop at the screen?
 

Again, not purely aesthetic, try playing a Krogan in ME3 MP, it feels completely different.

Are we talking about combat or role-playing here? Because if we're talking about combat then I would argue that the different classes feel much more unique than the different races.

And if the game also responds appropriately during the story to your race, all the better.

But BioWare isn't capable, as history shows.
 

You might be surprised by how many are sick of the entire virtual pimp simulator.
"Romance" lost most of its charm, at least in my eyes.

I think you'd be surprised how few people agree with you. And you chose to cut a relevant portion of my response so as not to address my argument.

[Mdizzletr0n]

You seem to have trouble understanding the concept of "Role-Play".

You can play an undead necromancer that eats children for breakfast even if you are a vegeterian in real life.

You imagine a certain mind-set, add to it motivations appropriate to the character, and roll with it.


Of course we can't know what a real alien thinks like, but there's nothing to stop us from trying to imagine it.

[Panda]

Most players played human characters in Origins and Inquisition despite having more non-human options available. Why put the resources into race selection when there's no audience to gain or lose/alienate?

What did those "personal" moments amount to that RP'ing in your head couldn't accomplish? A few lines of dialogue and same choices offered? Again, why waste the resources?

So much content was cut from Inquisition and the Inquisitor was so generic. Why were they cutting content late in development and adding race selection? Because they only have so many resources and compromises have to be made.

 

Most players play male human soldier in ME. What is point in other classes when soldier dominates so much? Is there point having female PC? Was there point for option to save Quarians in ME3 when majority chose peace between two or Geths? Answer is yes. Making better game surely is not wasting resources. And there always is that group that don't play any other than Dwarf in DA if it's possible. So for sake of the players and for sake of the game it's worth wasting resources for.

 

I guess I could RP whole game in my head, but I'd rather play it.

 

Race selection likely wasn't reason for any cut content. One reason probably is that they couldn't make it work for all platforms, they were planning too demanding stuff for cross-gen game.

[Evelynne]

Most players played human characters in Origins and Inquisition despite having more non-human options available. Why put the resources into race selection when there's no audience to gain or lose/alienate?
 

What did those "personal" moments amount to that RP'ing in your head couldn't accomplish? A few lines of dialogue and same choices offered? Again, why waste the resources?


So much content was cut from Inquisition and the Inquisitor was so generic. Why were they cutting content late in development and adding race selection? Because they only have so many resources and compromises have to be made.


Why can't you do that with a human avatar? If it's all about what's in your head then why does your imagination stop at the screen?
 

Are we talking about combat or role-playing here? Because if we're talking about combat then I would argue that the different classes feel much more unique than the different races.


But BioWare isn't capable, as history shows.
 

I think you'd be surprised how few people agree with you. And you chose to cut a relevant portion of my response so as not to address my argument.

 

1st Point: Majority is not Entirety. 60% of the Players who report on these forums played a human character in Origins, but in Inquisition, the majority came from the Elvahn with 52% (This from the fact there's more unique posts in the Elven Inky Picture Thread than in the Human). These are estimations but it serves to prove the point.

 

Many Dragon Age players consider DA2 to be the series' low point, with Hawke's personality being largely the saving grace for the game. The reason for that comes from the lack of Race Selection.

 

You really underestimate the power of Aesthetic choices on the Meta (IE the Player). A player playing a Dwarf Character probably sees that character in a far different light than their Dalish Elf. Aesthetic option it may be in reality, but for the player it contributes to replay-ability. 

 

DAO doesn't really help since a lot of the primary motivations for everyone is Vengeance and Duty, regardless of your Dialogue choices -- the only difference being the Dalish Elf and the Circle Magi.

 

2nd Point: More of the first. Again you continue to underestimate the power of Aesthetic Choices and Customization. Something I can promise you BW and EA don't. 

 

3rd Point: Until I see what was actually cut in favor of Race Choice -- if there was anything cut for that reason at all -- I'm going to assume you're throwing Hyperbole out about it. 

 

4th Point: The correct appearance -- and responses for that matter help facilitate said imagination. I Roleplay primarily in my MMO's and I can assure, being able to perceive your character as you imagine them is where the vast majority of Roleplayers make the distinction of isolating their character from their game circumstances and begin to Roleplay.

 

5th Point: You once AGAIN underestimate the power of Aesthetic Choice. I, and everyone who's arguing with you knows that we feel much more comfortable playing aggressively on a Krogan in MP. The Appearance, changes our mindset, even if the setup didn't. With that change comes a different point of view for solving the problem of making things die. 

 

6th Point: You're actually, pretty damn wrong there, and all I have to do is point to Orzimmar in DAO. That section of the game is COMPLETELY different if you're a Dwarf, and further different if you were a Noble. Your choices are MUCH different as well, because you have Context for what's going on in Orzimmar, and far more involved in it. The same goes for Denerim, and the Circle. The stories there do not change, but your understanding of the context, familiarity and relationships with the characters DO, which changes your decisions. 

 

DAI, did fall flat, but it was a very focused story, much like ME2. Anyone could have been the Main Protagonist in ME2, it didn't have to be Shepard as there was nothing special that happened that was wholy within Shepard's abilities. There was no need for a SPECTRE, or Shepard's Codex/Visions/Prothean Connection, Leadership is not a specific trait, regardless of how many people want to argue it. X does Y. Commander Blank blew up the Collector Base. Inquisitor Blank killed the Elder One.

 

7th Point: I don't know why Romance is here -- its relevant but its should be a no brainer, Race/Species affects the hurdles, challenges, interactions, preconceptions, and even the possibility of Romantic Interaction. Shepard/Garrus and Shepard/Tali are excellent examples of it. 

 

Final Point: BioWare has the ability to make the choices meaningful and Race/Species far more than purely Aesthetic.'

 

Personally, the last time I checked on Andromeda news, BioWare hadn't decided on Multi-Race or Purely Human, and I for one will probably not buy MEA if I have to play a Human again. I'm pretty tired of it. 

[Killroy]

Most players play male human soldier in ME. What is point in other classes when soldier dominates so much?

Classes actually effect gameplay in a meaningful way.

Is there point having female PC?

Women actually exist, as does their POV.

Was there point for option to save Quarians in ME3 when majority chose peace between two or Geths? Answer is yes. Making better game surely is not wasting resources.

Moral choices is what the franchise is based on. Comparing such choices to race selection is silly.

And there always is that group that don't play any other than Dwarf in DA if it's possible. So for sake of the players and for sake of the game it's worth wasting resources for.

Less than 4% of players made a Dwarf in Inquisition last I heard, so why is that worth the resources?
 

I guess I could RP whole game in my head, but I'd rather play it.

I would rather play a great game than a game full of compromises to accommodate a resource-drain like race selection.
 

Race selection likely wasn't reason for any cut content. One reason probably is that they couldn't make it work for all platforms, they were planning too demanding stuff for cross-gen game.

They had working builds that included things that were later cut. They cut things that had been hyped up for ~2 years. They would only have to cut that content to make room for something else. Seeing as how the game's engine was designed around scaling up and down to accommodate a wide array of platforms/builds, the only logical conclusion is that content was replaced.

[Evelynne]

Classes actually effect gameplay in a meaningful way.


Women actually exist, as does their POV.


Moral choices is what the franchise is based on. Comparing such choices to race selection is silly.


Less than 4% of players made a Dwarf in Inquisition last I heard, so why is that worth the resources?
 

I would rather play a great game than a game full of compromises to accommodate a resource-drain like race selection.
 

They had working builds that included things that were later cut. They cut things that had been hyped up for ~2 years. They would only have to cut that content to make room for something else. Seeing as how the game's engine was designed around scaling up and down to accommodate a wide array of platforms/builds, the only logical conclusion is that content was replaced.

 

If we're looking at the Majority of players -- no it doesn't. The majority of the audience for this game plays a Soldier -- because its easy, and they're only here for the story, not the lukewarm difficulty of its combat. 

 

Women do exist, and in this universe, so do other Species. Its Apples to Apples when you keep the Context in mind.

 

How is it silly? Race Choice affects your perceived loyalties, and therefore impacts your decisions. If Shepard was a Quarian the vast majority of players I bet you would have nuked the Geth from Orbit without even thinking about it. If they were Geth they would have annihilated the Quarian far more than the compromise.

 

Oh cool, I'm apart of the 1%. Could the low Dwarf population have ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT 80% OF THE PLAYERS MADE A MAGE? Nah. Probably not, context isn't at all required for that statistic. Nor is the fact that Dwarves can't play Mages. Yep. Totally nothing to do with that.

 

You'd like to play a game that doesn't compromise -- I don't think that kind of game exists Killy. 

 

Yeah, the cut content couldn't have anything to do with:

 

• Lack of Budget
• Lack of Time
• Restrictions of the Engine
• Restrictions of the Available Platform
• Lack of Ability to Create the Content in a way that meaningful
• Lack of time to Optimize 
• Buggy Implementation
• Loss of Focus
• Loss of Interest
• Deciding it didn't fit the Scope of the game

 

Yeah. Races are the reason it was cut, nothing else mate.

 

(Not sorry for the Sarcastic tone)

[Killroy]

Where are you getting these numbers? 52% played elves? 80% played mage? You made those figures up.

[Sanunes]

That doesn't make race choice meaningless. It'd still be feature loved by many players who like to roleplay and want to play as alien. There would be enough difference in the dialogue to make the playthrough with alien PC feel like you are playing as non-human characters. This is Bioware's game after all, not Bethesda's, Bioware has done this in DA side and although not perfect it has pleased players.

 

I am not really sure how many people really enjoyed the selection in Inquisition, I know a lot of people were excited when it was announced.  The problem is I saw a lot of posts being more critical of it being a "human in a rubber suit" then it being positive, of course that could easily not be a good representation of the people that played the game since negativity will more often be posted then a positive response.

 

I know that just a cosmetic change would be enough for some people, but I personally would want it to be more then a few throw away lines of dialogue such as how NPCs react to me even if it is just on my ship or what companions I could recruit before I would be interested.

[Evelynne]

Where are you getting these numbers? 52% played elves? 80% played mage? You made those figures up.

 

I could ask the same of you. Two can play the Statistics game dear, and if you're going to address my post -- address all of it unless you're ready to give up that demand as well.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They had working builds that included things that were later cut. They cut things that had been hyped up for ~2 years. They would only have to cut that content to make room for something else. Seeing as how the game's engine was designed around scaling up and down to accommodate a wide array of platforms/builds, the only logical conclusion is that content was replaced.

The culprit for why a lot of things were cut, like the stuff involving Crestwood that was shown, is because the 7th generation consoles couldn't handle the game with them in the game according to Bioware. Race selection had nothing to do with it. 

[Laughing_Man]

The culprit for why a lot of things were cut, like the stuff involving Crestwood that was shown, is because the 7th generation consoles couldn't handle the game with them in the game according to Bioware. Race selection had nothing to do with it. 

 

Wow. They actually said that?... I'm amazed.

What's with the insistance that the 8 ability restriction and the gutted skill trees had nothing to do with console limitation and/or wanting to streamline the game, etc.

[Evelynne]

Wow. They actually said that?... I'm amazed.

What's with the insistance that the 8 ability restriction and the gutted skill trees had nothing to do with console limitation and/or wanting to streamline the game, etc.

 

Mass Market Appeal is the one behind that.

[Laughing_Man]

Mass Market Appeal is the one behind that.

 

Oh the irony. Someone in Bioware or in EA dreamed that DA:I will be the next Skyrim.

 

Only they completely missed the mark as far as to the features that made Skyrim so appealing to so many people.

[Evelynne]

Oh the irony. Someone in Bioware or in EA dreamed that DA:I will be the next Skyrim.

 

Only they completely missed the mark as far as to the features that made Skyrim so appealing to so many people.

And the fact that some mods make it more easy to play is a sign a lot of things were off.

 

War Table for instance. I don't play a single game of DAI without it.

 

Loot Animation Remover. I used to skip loot for the sole reason of it infuriated me to stop, rifle through a bag smaller than my fist and find nothing I wanted.