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#76
Panda

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Classes actually effect gameplay in a meaningful way.


Women actually exist, as does their POV.

 

Those make no sense in the topic. Classes effect gameplay in meaningful way? Race selection affects roleplaying in meaningful way. It's simple as that to make statements.

 

Also we don't have everything that exist and it's POV in the game. Of course it would be very silly to not have gender choice, but if we are going on what majority of ME players does and cutting other things out or not adding them just because majority wouldn't use them then it makes sense to cut gender choice as well.

 

I really wonder why you are against race selection so much. Cause even if it would take resources for sure you won't know where those resources are taken from and if you would like race selection more than what would be alternative use for those resources. Anyways for me race selection would be most important feature in the whole game.

 

I am not really sure how many people really enjoyed the selection in Inquisition, I know a lot of people were excited when it was announced.  The problem is I saw a lot of posts being more critical of it being a "human in a rubber suit" then it being positive, of course that could easily not be a good representation of the people that played the game since negativity will more often be posted then a positive response.

 

I know that just a cosmetic change would be enough for some people, but I personally would want it to be more then a few throw away lines of dialogue such as how NPCs react to me even if it is just on my ship or what companions I could recruit before I would be interested.

 

Lot of people enjoyed it. I don't have stats, I don't think BW has released stats about it, but there is tons of elf players around, some hardcore dwarf fans and many liked trying out qunari. I don't really have seen more people being critical, I mean yes people say race selection wasn't done in best possible way, but I have not really seen anyone wanting to take it off from the game: people that critic it usually want it upgraded. 

 

I don't think race selection has ever been simply cosmetic change in BW's games, it is in Skyrim for example, but in DAI it's even tied a bit in gameplay like having harder time to get good score in Winter Palace cause you are Qunari.


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#77
Pasquale1234

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Personally, the last time I checked on Andromeda news, BioWare hadn't decided on Multi-Race or Purely Human, and I for one will probably not buy MEA if I have to play a Human again. I'm pretty tired of it.


You might want to read the announcement pinned at the top of this forum.
 

While we aren’t ready to go into too many details just yet, as you saw in the trailer and can tell by the name, this game is very much a new adventure, taking place far away from and long after the events of the original trilogy. You will play a human, male or female, though that’s actually not the character you saw in the trailer (more on that later).



#78
Evelynne

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You might want to read the announcement pinned at the top of this forum.
 

 

Just means I'm not buying the game :) Not too big a skin off of my nose.



#79
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I could ask the same of you. Two can play the Statistics game dear, and if you're going to address my post -- address all of it unless you're ready to give up that demand as well.


BioWare put out an infographic about player choices like they did for ME3. It had Dwarf Inquisitors listed at like 3%, female Inquisitors around 35%, human Inquisitors at over 50%, and I'm positive it showed Inquisition continuing the trend of the warrior class being the overwhelming favorite. Mage has always been the least played class in every Dragon Age game.

And if you just make stuff up why should I bother to address any of your other points?

#80
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Wow. They actually said that?... I'm amazed.
What's with the insistance that the 8 ability restriction and the gutted skill trees had nothing to do with console limitation and/or wanting to streamline the game, etc.


They've been all over the map with everything involving the FB3 engine. Mike Laidlaw specifically said none of the content that was cut was cut to accommodate last-gen consoles, but then they justified ending DLC support for last-gen consoles by saying the last-gen consoles couldn't handle what they wanted to do. Pay no mind to the fact that nothing in the DLC was more demanding or technically advanced than anything in the vanilla game...

#81
Killroy

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Those make no sense in the topic. Classes effect gameplay in meaningful way? Race selection affects roleplaying in meaningful way. It's simple as that to make statements.


Are you actually arguing that class options don't effect gameplay?
 

Also we don't have everything that exist and it's POV in the game. Of course it would be very silly to not have gender choice, but if we are going on what majority of ME players does and cutting other things out or not adding them just because majority wouldn't use them then it makes sense to cut gender choice as well.


Again, women are an actual demo to appeal to.
 

I really wonder why you are against race selection so much. Cause even if it would take resources for sure you won't know where those resources are taken from and if you would like race selection more than what would be alternative use for those resources. Anyways for me race selection would be most important feature in the whole game.


I'm against wasting tons of resources on aesthetic choices. Adding race options is a massive resource drain, requiring additional character creators, voices, dialog, animations, cut-scene rendering, armors...
And if race selection is the most important feature of a Mass Effect game for you you're clearly not a Mass Effect fan.

#82
Panda

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Are you actually arguing that class options don't effect gameplay?
 

Again, women are an actual demo to appeal to.
 

I'm against wasting tons of resources on aesthetic choices. Adding race options is a massive resource drain, requiring additional character creators, voices, dialog, animations, cut-scene rendering, armors...
And if race selection is the most important feature of a Mass Effect game for you you're clearly not a Mass Effect fan.

 

No, they do affect gameplay. Just like race selection affect roleplay. 

 

It's not aeshetic choice, it's roleplay choice. You are bit wrong with how much stuff is needed, since it completely depends on races and even if drains lot it's worth everything it drains. Nice way to make statements. I'll try as well: ME is full of interesting alien races, if you want to stay playing boring humans you are not clearly ME fan :P


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#83
Killroy

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No, they do affect gameplay. Just like race selection affect roleplay.


Race selection in BioWare games effects role playing in the same way hairdo selection does.
 

It's not aeshetic choice, it's roleplay choice. You are bit wrong with how much stuff is needed, since it completely depends on races and even if drains lot it's worth everything it drains.


Why don't you just play Skyrim if all you want is a bunch of races to choose from?

Nice way to make statements. I'll try as well: ME is full of interesting alien races, if you want to stay playing boring humans you are not clearly ME fan :P


Your most important feature is one that has never existed in the series. If the games have never had your most important feature then why do you play them?

#84
Evelynne

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Only Infographic I could find is... this one.

Spoiler

 

BioWare put out an infographic about player choices like they did for ME3. It had Dwarf Inquisitors listed at like 3%, female Inquisitors around 35%, human Inquisitors at over 50%, and I'm positive it showed Inquisition continuing the trend of the warrior class being the overwhelming favorite. Mage has always been the least played class in every Dragon Age game.

And if you just make stuff up why should I bother to address any of your other points?

 

So. All the points you listed are wrong, or unlisted. This BS-Hole goes deep. Here's an Infographic for DA2...

Spoiler

 

What's that? 44.3% of players played Mages? And 41.7% played Rogues? Warrior, was and always has been the least popular class in the game -- it only now regained a lot of its ground, and that's mostly thanks to Reaver.

 

And before you go nitpicking that its a fan infographic -- there's not any others, feel free to search around. 

 

Lets go look at that ME3 infographic?

Spoiler

 

So according that, less than 30% of the players of the game, play the 'Caster' Classes. Guess we should get rid of them -- especially the Engineer, I mean look at that whopping 8%.

 

82% Male Shepards -- guess we can get rid of the Gender Option too since its such a minority -- its a waste of resources after all. Have to write sex-specific dialogue, hire a Female Voice Actor for how ever many games they plan to make after MEA, Model all of the armors, the characters, create customization options. But wait... all of that's -- AESTHETIC OPTIONS -mindblown-. 

 

Kaiden's the least liked and least surviving party member -- guess we can axe him from the game. I mean 1.7%? There's a higher percentage of people who didn't vote than liked Kaiden.


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#85
Keitaro57

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About the Dwarf that not a lot of people played in DAI... Excuse me... but it is not about the beard? You remember, this atrocious hunk of plastic floating near the jaw?

 

About the fact that nobody can play an alien because not a single human player is an alien... Hum... I'm not the militaristic guy, I never used a firearm, I never travelled into the star, I never met any alien lifeform but I was able to play the ME trilogy. I'm anormal?

It is not because you are not an alien that you can't play one : not all Krogans are bloodthirsty freaks! Do you remember the shakespeare reincarnation of Illium? At the opposite, Aria can NOT be considered as a sage and mercyfull Matriarch. We don't have to play like the Codex says, after all lot of aliens find their own way to live in ME world!


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#86
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Race selection in BioWare games effects role playing in the same way hairdo selection does.
 

Why don't you just play Skyrim if all you want is a bunch of races to choose from?


Your most important feature is one that has never existed in the series. If the games have never had your most important feature then why do you play them?

 

First one you are simply wrong.

 

Why would I only want to play one game forever?

 

If it existed it would be most important feature in the game.


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#87
Just Here For Popcorns

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#88
ArianaGBSA

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They don't give us races. We still mod and play Asari, because sticking to Bioware is boring.


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#89
LinksOcarina

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Wow. They actually said that?... I'm amazed.

What's with the insistance that the 8 ability restriction and the gutted skill trees had nothing to do with console limitation and/or wanting to streamline the game, etc.

 

The skill trees, no idea.

 

The 8 ability restriction though has been there since Origins for consoles, albiet in the hotkey section. I can only presume the reason for the restriction deals with tactics more than anything else; picking and choosing your "loadout" before you go into battle.



#90
Just Here For Popcorns

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They don't give us races. We still mod and play Asari, because sticking to Bioware is boring.

Unless you happen to have bought game on console,then you must stick to BW.Which means no playing as asari,turian,salarian,drell and so on,unless you want to go in multiplayer and as OP said not all of us are crazy and love multiplayers if there is no one you know that is going to play it as well.I just don't see much appeal at all in multiplayers that are in singleplayer games,if I wanted to play multiplayer I would download real multiplayer game by paying for it monthly or playing it for free,I wouldn't bother buying something that is meant as singleplayer game if multiplayer is what I wanted!

Besides huge reason why we got DA:I as we got it is because BW focused more on adding and creating multiplayer game in it rather then just you know....focusing on making singleplayer game in game that is meant as singleplayer!


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#91
Hair Serious Business

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I just don't see much appeal at all in multiplayers that are in singleplayer games,if I wanted to play multiplayer I would download real multiplayer game by paying for it monthly or playing it for free,I wouldn't bother buying something that is meant as singleplayer game if multiplayer is what I wanted!

Pretty much this as No.1.

As No.2:

(First this is just meant as thread for discussion and suggestion not demand or must!)

Which means nowhere in here 'OP' stated that this is must. I don't care if we play human again as long as they do good job on game. I just gave suggestion of what wouldn't be bad if it were in game, but that is all! A suggestion! Nowhere in here I pointed my gun at BW and ordered them to make something(that is called demanding something) and just speaking in "Would it be... ; If..... ; Perhaps....; They could....;What if... and etc.) falls in category of just suggesting something that could be taken in consideration but it is not necessary to do it or demanded of anyone to do it, it is just again simple suggestion!

 

Now reason why I explained what 'suggestion Vs. demand' was is because some of posts act as if I killed their puppy with just simple suggestion in here. You don't like this suggestion? Fine I got your point it is ok, but you can stop making posts as if I'm demanding in here anything, as if I'm already pointing gun at BW and forcing them to make something....when in truth all I did was give one harmless suggestion that some people decided to take on serious level of "ticking bomb" that must be detonated at all costs, instead of just chilling and taking this as they should from start, as just simple little suggestion!


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#92
Addictress

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I don't know, I feel like Shepard's humanness was SUCH an integral part of the Mass Effect narrative. The fact that Earth was home, that his species was just gaining recognition in the galactic community. These things.

 

Only Dragon Age Origins really pulled it off. They REALLY developed a whole backstory for each race and enough content throughout the game to make each race meaningful in their own unique ways.

 

I don't want it to be cookie cutter such that you can tell they simply just mass-replaced audio bits in the same situations with interchangeable audio bits 


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#93
countofhell

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In ME3 multiplayer playing as other races works really fine. The quarian and vorcha dodge the powers the same way, the asari dodge slightly different and faster, the human rolls, the krogan and geth juggernaut can't dodge but got higher defense and a lot of vitality.

 

In single player this can work.

In Dragon Age Origins every single race got each different and unique prologue story and that was really great. I think this could work for Mass Effect Andromeda too. Exactly the same is posted by Addictress.

 

Dragon Age Inquisition is actually a prevgen and both currentgen title, the quality and performance of the game is balanced. This is far from the performance what the currentgen can do.


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#94
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I don't know, I feel like Shepard's humanness was SUCH an integral part of the Mass Effect narrative. The fact that Earth was home, that his species was just gaining recognition in the galactic community. These things.

 

Only Dragon Age Origins really pulled it off. They REALLY developed a whole backstory for each race and enough content throughout the game to make each race meaningful in their own unique ways.

 

I don't want it to be cookie cutter such that you can tell they simply just mass-replaced audio bits in the same situations with interchangeable audio bits 

 

I agree that in ME1-3 it would have been very hard to pull off race selection, since lot depended on Milky Wayan politics and relations races had together especially in ME. Just picture Salarian protagonist trying to do priority Tuchanka.. And lot was about humans as well. But since the new game is in new galaxy I think this would have been wonderful time to bring up race selection. I doubt humanity has similar significance in the new galaxy, probably it's just one of Milky Wayan alien species just like others. With some different reactions from Milky Wayan characters in the game and bit different dialogues for our character would make race selection feel successful in  this new setting we are going to have.

 

I'm just sad Bioware didn't go for it, since it's golden opportunity.


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#95
Addictress

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I just finished GTA V and they did this amazing thing tying together three protagonists - each separately played.

 

What if Andromeda did the same thing with multiple protags from different races.... and you could play each, and they all had different storylines but were on the same ship and their storylines crossed at point and then in the climax, they worked together....

 

Ah, one can dream.....  :wub:


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#96
Ghost Gal

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Only Infographic I could find is... this one.

Spoiler

 

 

So. All the points you listed are wrong, or unlisted. This BS-Hole goes deep. Here's an Infographic for DA2...

Spoiler

 

What's that? 44.3% of players played Mages? And 41.7% played Rogues? Warrior, was and always has been the least popular class in the game -- it only now regained a lot of its ground, and that's mostly thanks to Reaver.

 

And before you go nitpicking that its a fan infographic -- there's not any others, feel free to search around. 

 

Lets go look at that ME3 infographic?

Spoiler

 

So according that, less than 30% of the players of the game, play the 'Caster' Classes. Guess we should get rid of them -- especially the Engineer, I mean look at that whopping 8%.

 

82% Male Shepards -- guess we can get rid of the Gender Option too since its such a minority -- its a waste of resources after all. Have to write sex-specific dialogue, hire a Female Voice Actor for how ever many games they plan to make after MEA, Model all of the armors, the characters, create customization options. But wait... all of that's -- AESTHETIC OPTIONS -mindblown-. 

 

Kaiden's the least liked and least surviving party member -- guess we can axe him from the game. I mean 1.7%? There's a higher percentage of people who didn't vote than liked Kaiden.

 

I love you so much.

 

Funny how people jump to say race selection should get the ax because "not enough people use it to make the resources worthwhile," but when you point out that just as few or even less people use other equally or even more resource-intensive features, suddenly it's, "No! That's important, we can't lose that!"

 

About the Dwarf that not a lot of people played in DAI... Excuse me... but it is not about the beard? You remember, this atrocious hunk of plastic floating near the jaw?

 

About the fact that nobody can play an alien because not a single human player is an alien... Hum... I'm not the militaristic guy, I never used a firearm, I never travelled into the star, I never met any alien lifeform but I was able to play the ME trilogy. I'm anormal?

 

Seriously. If you're going to pull the "none of us can roleplay aliens because none of us are aliens" card, then you'd better also extend it to "None of us can roleplay military personnel unless we actually served in the military" or "None of us can roleplay a space traveler because none of us have actually been in space," "None of us can roleplay a combat-trained gun-wielder unless we've actually been in a gun battle."

 

I don't know, I feel like Shepard's humanness was SUCH an integral part of the Mass Effect narrative. The fact that Earth was home, that his species was just gaining recognition in the galactic community. These things.

 

Only Dragon Age Origins really pulled it off. They REALLY developed a whole backstory for each race and enough content throughout the game to make each race meaningful in their own unique ways.

 

I agree, though that's kind of why many of us are asking about race selection in Andromeda, since it's removed from the human-centered Shepard's Mass Effect storyline.

 

I'll admit I'd personally like Mass Effect's narrative better if it was closer to DAO's narrative (in fact, the whole reason I bought Mass Effect was because I was flying high from the "explore this fantastic world from different richly detailed racial and cultural backgrounds and experiences" DAO narrative, and was disappointed when I bought Mass Effect and learned that it's a purely human narrative), but I recognize that that's not what they were going for. They wanted to tell a human story in an alien setting for that first trilogy, so... all right.

 

Since Andromeda is removed from Shepard's Mass Effect, I thought it was a golden opportunity to create a narrative where it would be possible to explore the Mass Effect universe through alien eyes. I'm sorry they skipped the opportunity. 



#97
Silvair

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Id main a quarian though I accept its at the cost of customization lol

#98
Sanunes

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Id main a quarian though I accept its at the cost of customization lol

 

That is the problem I think, there might be a lot of people in threads like this now saying they are willing to accept the cost of multiple races, but when the game launches you will have people that didn't realize the total cost complaining or another group of people upset that they added to the game and cost them what they felt BioWare must do to please them while listening to the "complainers" that got their race selection.

 

Basically no matter what BioWare does there is going to be probably an equal about of people not buying the game because they did 'x' or complaining for months that "they had a golden opportunity to pander to that player, but didn't"



#99
Gothfather

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This is an example how player choice the mantra of almost all gamers use to justify their position of a desired game feature can hurt a game. Player choice isn't the be all or end all, it comes at a major cost to the game and we have examples of how player choice hurts a game.

 

People wanted more companions because Bioware's reputation for companions is mainly positive and player want more of it so what could be wrong with giving player more choice in companions? DA:I has 12 companions/advisors all with their own stories but the depth of their stories doesn't compare with any of previous games' companions. Many players found the companion stories lacking, the reason is pretty simple when you have 5 or 6 companions the amount of story content devoted to companions is only split between 6, double that number of companions and you still have the same amount of content but any single companion has less content. Take 100 pennies split them into 5 groups and you get any one companion having 20% of the total story dedicated to companions this allows for a more scenes and a deeper story. Take the same number of pennies and split them into 10 piles and you have the same number of pennies aka the same amount of content, but the individual companions stories are half the size.

 

The practical result is that DA:I has the same amount companion content of previous games but the stories are weak because there is no time/resources to develop them. Cassandra has a crisis of faith that is resolved with one dialogue? pfft how is that a crisis? Bull has a Crisis of philosophy about the Qun and loyalty to the chargers and this gets resolved in one dialogue. How can this feel impactful and a major even in either of these two characters when it is resolved in a single scene? It has no weight, no depth because the resources to give these stories the time to develop is given over to other companions. And these two examples are not alone, Cullen's lyrium withdrawal is again a "hey inquisitor i'm going through an issue," next scene  "hey inquisitor it is all good now." What? That is it?

 

So now I am sure people are saying we are not asking for 12 companions but playable races, which means these people have failed to make the connection to more player choice giving us less meaningful and enjoyable game experience. The resources needed to give us playable races means we will lose out in other areas of the game. Game budgets are not infinite and this means that any money spend on X means there is less money for A, B & C. Adding playable races means they need to create more assets. And don't think because there is an NPC model of a given race that is enough. It isn't. Most player character models have to have a far greater range of animations, superior skeletons and superior textures than the assets use for a NPC. This requires additional resources used in creating this player choice. The story has to become more generic to accommodate all the races and it requires the story acknowledge differences in the game which increase the cost. So you have more races you are going to need more assets to modify the appearance and the greater the variance in teh races the more costly that becomes. Humans and Elves for example can share hair styles but Asari, Turians, Humans, and every other possible race all have distinctly different appearances so that NO asset usable by one race is usable by a different race. With perhaps one exception the eyes. This adds up in cost. Players were not happy with the range of customization in DA:I and part of the problem is that they had to create separate assets for these races to various customization features. This will be exacerbated with the mass effect. All this cost money this cost Forces the development team to take money from other features.

 

Player choice comes at a cost it is not FREE, it is not always better that more choice is best. Would it be cool to play as X? yes but that isn't the only factor to consider. What do we lose for being able to play as X and is that worth it? After seeing DA:I and the breadth of player choice that game gives you i can't help but think it shows very clearly that we got lots of choice but we didn't get a superior game. I enjoy DA:I and have played over 400 hours according to origin but i can't help but feel that the game would have been better with 3-5 less companions, no choice for protagonist voice, and no choice of race. As all these choices are expensive to include and that is money that could have been spent giving us a better experience with in the world. i'd much rather have my choices restricted in what i can play vs how I can play. Let me make choice in the story, let me make choice in dialogue choice, that is the kind of choice that engages me. not if I have 12 hairstyles vs 20 hairstyles or 1 playable race vs 3 or 4 playable races. i feel almost no emotional attachment to the companions in DA:I compared to those in BG1-2, KOTOR, DA:O even DA2 (bioware's worse RPG to date IMHO) or ME1-3. I can't help feel that his was a result of there just being zero time to develop any connection with them because there is hardly any content with them compared to other games.

 

Don't believe me that more companions impact the amount of content you experience with companion?

http://www.makinggam...mbers,6845.html

This article shows you how bioware develops Dialogue and story content with voice acting and the companions. It is pretty simple to see how more companions means less for any given companion. And it shows how budgets are interconnected which means giving more to A requires that everything else has less. Which is common sense, as adults we only have limited funds a larger mortgage or car payment means less money for other things. It isn't rocket science. But i doubt anyone who wants to play an asari or turian or whatever will ever concede that this desire will hurt other areas of the game, well not many of them anyway. Gamers think unreasonable expectations and desires are their "right."

 

 

That is the problem I think, there might be a lot of people in threads like this now saying they are willing to accept the cost of multiple races, but when the game launches you will have people that didn't realize the total cost complaining or another group of people upset that they added to the game and cost them what they felt BioWare must do to please them while listening to the "complainers" that got their race selection.

 

Basically no matter what BioWare does there is going to be probably an equal about of people not buying the game because they did 'x' or complaining for months that "they had a golden opportunity to pander to that player, but didn't"

 

Given the complaints DA:I got over the character customization, the shallow companions stories and so forth I don't believe that the community as a whole is split 50/50. i think there is a clear disappointment in the costs for DA:I breadth of choice. Now many players have no clue that these things are connected true but DA:I has shown that Choice doesn't equal player contentment. So they shouldn't try to give us this choice for its own sake. Give us choice only when the cost isn't too high and it actually provides a benefit to the story and game play.



#100
Keitaro57

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To Chiara Lavelann :

Don't get mad at me! The topics was leading to the point : "better play humans because as fellow human we understand them more. And we can't play alien because they don't think like humans". We play elves, dwarves, Qunari so why can't we play an Asari, Turian or other as a main character!

 

To others :

And about the "Don't ask them that! It will take to much ressources", just ONE single question : do you hope MEA to be better than ME3? Yes or no? Because it is not by hoping the game has less features as possible that it makes a better game!


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