444 réponses à ce sujet

[Gothfather]

To Chiara Lavelann :

Don't get mad at me! The topics was leading to the point : "better play humans because as fellow human we understand them more. And we can't play alien because they don't think like humans". We play elves, dwarves, Qunari so why can't we play an Asari, Turian or other as a main character!

 

To others :

And about the "Don't ask them that! It will take to much ressources", just ONE single question : do you hope MEA to be better than ME3? Yes or no? Because it is not by hoping the game has less features as possible that it makes a better game!

Features come at a cost. More doesn't actually mean better.

 

Do you honestly think that if they gave us 20 companions in DA:I or ME3 the game would be better? What about a 100 companions? Budgets are finite so every added features cost money and that money has to come from some place. so please tell me how more automatically means a better game?

 

I am hoping that the games features have depth not breadth. I don't want more features I want quality features. Giving me more isn't what makes a game good giving us quality features is what makes a game good.

[Gothfather]

Those make no sense in the topic. Classes effect gameplay in meaningful way? Race selection affects roleplaying in meaningful way. It's simple as that to make statements.

 

Also we don't have everything that exist and it's POV in the game. Of course it would be very silly to not have gender choice, but if we are going on what majority of ME players does and cutting other things out or not adding them just because majority wouldn't use them then it makes sense to cut gender choice as well.

 

I really wonder why you are against race selection so much. Cause even if it would take resources for sure you won't know where those resources are taken from and if you would like race selection more than what would be alternative use for those resources. Anyways for me race selection would be most important feature in the whole game.

 

 

Lot of people enjoyed it. I don't have stats, I don't think BW has released stats about it, but there is tons of elf players around, some hardcore dwarf fans and many liked trying out qunari. I don't really have seen more people being critical, I mean yes people say race selection wasn't done in best possible way, but I have not really seen anyone wanting to take it off from the game: people that critic it usually want it upgraded. 

 

I don't think race selection has ever been simply cosmetic change in BW's games, it is in Skyrim for example, but in DAI it's even tied a bit in gameplay like having harder time to get good score in Winter Palace cause you are Qunari.

Actually there was a quote from the developers can't recall where I heard it that stated that most of characters made for DA:O where human.  I believe Gaider said it. There were more than one post/thread on the topic. I recall that only 5% of people ever played the dwarf origins. I can't recall the exact numbers but I think humans were around 75-80%. Again facts trump feeling.

 

I'll see if I can find the metrics. just to be clear these are DA:O figures no DA:I figures are released.(At least i can't find them)

 

Secondary source stating bioware stats but haven't found a primary source yet for the 80%

http://www.gamefaqs....57953065?page=4

 

Secondary source but the link page is dead

 

 

According to BioWare telemetry, 80% of players chose Human origins, 15% - Elven origins (with the Elven Mage being the most popular) and 5% - Dwarven origins. This accounts for all registered playthroughs ever started, but not for playthroughs on unconnected consoles.^[4]

http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Originsnear the bottom in the trivial section

 

Primary source found.

http://forum.bioware...-da3/?bioware=1

 

 

Quote for Elves.

 

 

 

It's probably worth mentioning that elves were only played by 15% (or less? I don't remember the exact number) of DAO players... as in ever. Meaning only 15% even tried the elven origins on one of their playthroughs.

Which is not to say the new elven look in DA2 would make it more or less popular, if offered... or anything, really, other than that the DAO elves were not inherently popular options to begin with. I think this is one of those places where the telemetry doesn't lie. Race options are very popular with a smaller group of players-- to them, the expense is totally worth it. But the vast majority of players will only pick humans, even when options are offered. Whether there's any value to those people that such options exist, even if not taken, is the only intangible element in the equation (and should probably not be underestimated).

 

Quote for Dwarves.

 

 

 

Elven mage was the most popular elf origin, by far. Then the city elf, then the dalish. Don't remember the distribution, sorry, just that city elf and dalish were both well behind. All I remember is the dwarf origins: 3% for the dwarven nobles, 2% for the dwarf commoner.

I don't know if you can translate into an actual number based on shipped units, or at what point these figures were arrived at. Either way, it's a pretty notable trend.

Regardless, does having a low percentage of use mean we don't do it? I don't think so-- there's only so far you want to take that argument, lest you arrive at a point where you say that all content is required to be seen by every player. At that point you have no choices... and, like I said, there's a certain value to players that choices exist even if they aren't taken. So it's good to notice the trend, if not to have the trend always dictate response.

The numbers that we do have show there is not a huge number of players. Perception isn't reality. Facts are reality.

 

Bioware should not simply blindly add choice to a game without thinking about the cost. Which David Gaider states here as well,

it is the first post he makes in the thread i have already sourced. Cost is a REAL issue and there isn't a huge demand for playable races.

 

[Edit] i made a formating error that included two quotes and my coments into a single quote. i have fixed it don't want to claim David said something he didn't. sorry for anyone reading that before I fixed it.

 

I think that if one were to ask a fan "do you want more options?" the answer would always be yes-- regardless of the cost. Cost is not an issue to a fan, and neither should it be. We, of course, have no such luxury.

The difference here is that the fans see that they had three race options in DAO and only one in DA2... and thus that's less, and thus inferior, with the trade-off being not in evidence or simply not being worth it in their eyes. Which is a fair comparison, it being a sequel and all. There's no inherent benefit to race selection itself insofar as it being an RPG goes, so long as there are customization options (either in the story or in chargen)-- whether there's enough such options is really the trick, and on that front we'll be talking more once we have stuff to show.

[Hair Serious Business]

To Chiara Lavelann :

Don't get mad at me! The topics was leading to the point : "better play humans because as fellow human we understand them more. And we can't play alien because they don't think like humans". We play elves, dwarves, Qunari so why can't we play an Asari, Turian or other as a main character!

 

To others :

And about the "Don't ask them that! It will take to much ressources", just ONE single question : do you hope MEA to be better than ME3? Yes or no? Because it is not by hoping the game has less features as possible that it makes a better game!

^Agreed!

To all who say "aliens doesn't think like us" sorry lol last time I checked aliens happened to think like humans 100% in ME universe(they will war when they don't get it their way like us, be racists like us, have preferences of their own just like humans, do stupid same political bs like us, speak like us, they are judgemental pricks like us, shortsighted in many aspects and things like us, they can be good or bad like us, they want love like us, home like us, nice careers and lives like us and etc.) so how aliens don't think like us again in here? 

 

And this is 21 century and as such of course players will want more out of the games then they did in past. Of course players are going to want more and more features in game. Because game with more features will always be better then one with less in it. I mean just imagine if 'Witcher 3' decided to not include Ciri because, no one ever requested her as playable character? Or make simple fetch quests instead of trying to give depth to even side quests( I mean it would save them lot of money if they just made all those side quests simple fetch quests like DA:I did)? What about character's models? They could have done same thing like in Witcher 1 and 2 just put same face model on different character instead of bothering to make unique ones, because again they would save lot of money in here that way? So it is more how much developers care for their game and when one does resources are never problem because you want of your game to be best and to beat others. Which means better gameplay, extremely good CC, more RPG elements, class you play needs to be acknowledge, more interesting side quests(like in TW3), better graphics, better combat system, better interaction system, better story, better romances, better characters, immersion are in here what is required of BW to do if they seriously plan to make good ME:A game! But extra features like good hairstyles, to toggle helmet like in ME1 on and of, playable races that are going to be done like in DAO....wouldn't hurt to be added as well because more features there are in game, the better the game will be and feel. better.

[Panda]

Actually there was a quote from the developers can't recall where I heard it that stated that most of characters made for DA:O where human.  I believe Gaider said it. There were more than one post/thread on the topic. I recall that only 5% of people ever played the dwarf origins. I can't recall the exact numbers but I think humans were around 75-80%. Again facts trump feeling.

 

I'll see if I can find the metrics.

 

Well I wasn't expecting humans still not to dominate, since lot of players do play the game only once or do not finish it at all. Race selection is more for those who play game multiple times and to make people interested. Cousland was also my favorite so I have also contributed to human statics despite enjoying playing other races as well.

[Just Here For Popcorns]

"We want character we can relate to blah blah blah",well in that case my good sir turn off your computer and start game called "Real LIfe" in where protagonist is 100% like you.What you don't like game "Real Life" and you are not crazy about your protagonist?Of course not genius,that is because you want protagonist that is something you are not! 

So whole "want to relate" excuse is pure big BS!

[Gothfather]

Well I wasn't expecting humans still not to dominate, since lot of players do play the game only once or do not finish it at all. Race selection is more for those who play game multiple times and to make people interested. Cousland was also my favorite so I have also contributed to human statics despite enjoying playing other races as well.

 

i am not claiming there is no value but there isn't a huge number of players that actually USE the feature compared to those that don't. This alone isn't a reason not to have race selection but it is something to consider when you factor in cost. If 95% of people don't experience a feature but it only cost 1% of the game's budget to include it is probably worth including. If 80% of people don't experience content that costs 15%, 20% or MORE of your budget it probably isn't worth including.

 

We have seen how player choice in DA:I hasn't given us a superior game. I like DA:I but I think it fails not because of the open world per say but because all the meaningless player choice that was added that meant that they had fewer resources to fill the open world. That and the story was pretty weak in its pacing. DA:I has the most player choice ever and that isn't free. 4 protagonist voices, 12 companions/advisors, 4 playable races multiple skyhold customization choices. Lots of armours to choose from, with multiple colours to dye them in. All this choice comes at a cost and it didn't produce a better game. Choice in an of itself doesn't create a better experience, it should almost never be used as a gauge for inclusion because it is meaningless in and of itself. What did the choice cost to include? How many people will use it? Does it make the CORE game experience better? What do we have to give up to include it?  What is it actually adding to the gaming experience? These are far better questions than would player want the choice.

 

I did find the source in the end as a fyi.

 

DA:I was delayed a year and in that time they changed their minds and added playable races in hind sight I think they should have taken those funds and made more content for the open world, expanded Dialogue in side quests and fleshed out what features they already had vs adding three more playable races.

[Just Here For Popcorns]

/snip

Well in that case,players also in majority played male Shepard,very small percent played as female(in fact large portion of people I know never even heard about "Jane Shepard" in here).Also more played male Warden and Inquisitor then female ones.Then so far "gender option" seems like pointless feature and waste of resources as well,since majority played males.Option to chose female seems as huge waste as well since it is only such minority of players.

However reason why it is not "waste" is because it is choice that is there and you don't feel limited by just being able to play male! You have that feature,even though players are more likely to roll as male,the option of still choice is still there in case you might want to roll another play as female next time to see how it is.I don't see then problem with races as well.Even though majority is to roll human,the choice of having another race to chose and see which differences are on one of your playes,is nice to have as option because you get less feeling of being "limited" again in here.

[Mdizzletr0n]

DA:I would've been the same game even if they didn't allow race selections. The game was pretty much done from a story standpoint. So I think that that's a bad example. Had they chosen to do so earlier in the development cycle, it may have been a different experience.

That's what's disappointing about not having the ability to play as multiple races from the beginning of ME:A's development. It's a missed opportunity.

Just like it'd be a missed opportunity if they retread the Alliance soldier role again

[Just Here For Popcorns]

DA:I would've been the same game even if they didn't allow race selections. The game was pretty much done from a story standpoint. So I think that that's a bad example. Had they chosen to do so earlier in the development cycle, it may have been a different experience.

That's what's disappointing about not having the ability to play as multiple races from the beginning of ME:A's development. It's a missed opportunity.

Just like it'd be a missed opportunity if they retread the Alliance soldier role again

I see your point though the choice of at least "having option" to feel less limited like I said was nice.And biggest problem with DA:I case was that devs focused more on multiplayer then making singleplayer game.And ME:A is still in too early development for anything to be "final" and "missed opportunity" in here.It just takes being less lazy and more focusing on singleplayer story of game this time and you can do multiple races right.I mean common they've pulled it out more then right in DAO!So a bit of backstory of chosen race,NPC now and then that is going to recognize you as that race like we had in DAO and your protagonist knowing what the hell race he/she is(not like DA:I elf that needed story of his/her own people being told and explained by one apostate witch) can be easy done,it doesn't require much at all except being less lazy and not slapping entire "human" story just with alien look of your character.

[Sanunes]

 

Well in that case,players also in majority played male Shepard,very small percent played as female(in fact large portion of people I know never even heard about "Jane Shepard" in here).Also more played male Warden and Inquisitor then female ones.Then so far "gender option" seems like pointless feature and waste of resources as well,since majority played males.Option to chose female seems as huge waste as well since it is only such minority of players.

However reason why it is not "waste" is because it is choice that is there and you don't feel limited by just being able to play male! You have that feature,even though players are more likely to roll as male,the option of still choice is still there in case you might want to roll another play as female next time to see how it is.I don't see then problem with races as well.Even though majority is to roll human,the choice of having another race to chose and see which differences are on one of your playes,is nice to have as option because you get less feeling of being "limited" again in here.

 

I would agree if it felt like they put the same effort into adding a female protagonist versus multiple races, there is enough dialogue in both games to reflect the gender of the protagonist. The majority of the time in Inquisition it felt like everyone was reacting to my protagonist the same way regardless of the race I picked. Now I can understand that for some places, but with the lore around Qunari and Elves I was expecting more and the same thing bugged me with Dragon Age: Origins too. So for me it always felt like I was just wearing a fancy set of armour and not playing a different race.

 

What pleased me with Mass Effect 3: Omega is the one segment if you were playing an Engineer and if they continue that trend into Andromeda I would have higher hopes that a racial option would be implemented better.

Modifié par Sanunes, 11 octobre 2015 - 12:29 .

[Gothfather]

I see your point though the choice of at least "having option" to feel less limited like I said was nice.And biggest problem with DA:I case was that devs focused more on multiplayer then making singleplayer game.And ME:A is still in too early development for anything to be "final" and "missed opportunity" in here.It just takes being less lazy and more focusing on singleplayer story of game this time and you can do multiple races right.I mean common they've pulled it out more then right in DAO!So a bit of backstory of chosen race,NPC now and then that is going to recognize you as that race like we had in DAO and your protagonist knowing what the hell race he/she is(not like DA:I elf that needed story of his/her own people being told and explained by one apostate witch) can be easy done,it doesn't require much at all except being less lazy and not slapping entire "human" story just with alien look of your character.

That is you talking out of your ass. The developers that made DA:I had ZERO to do with the multiplayer elements in the game ZERO. EA assigned a separate team with a separate budget.

 

Source: https://www.dragonag...multiplayer-faq

 

Notable Quotes

 

 

How long has your team been working on MP?

·         Over two years. After Mass Effect 3 MP's success, we created a special team with veterans from the Dragon Age and Mass Effect franchises. Our lead MP designer and lead online programmer have been on the Dragon Age franchise since Dragon Age: Origins. The addition of designers, programmers, artists, audio, QA, and production from Mass Effect 3 MP will help us ship a really fun co-op game that suits our franchise.

 

 

Was multiplayer (MP) mode created by the same team that made single-player (SP)?

·         MP and SP were developed side by side. The multiplayer environment gave us a perfect opportunity for testing combat, creatures, and encounter design, and since the two environments are near-identical, every improvement spread to both parts of the game.

 

I really wish people would be EVIDENCE based vs Emotional based.

[Just Here For Popcorns]

/snip

I think I was pointing out races being possible if BW is less lazy this time and does races right and not as just cosmetic makeup on human story.

And how was female in ME more recognized then races in DAO?In DAO races also had multiple dialogues and reactions from NPC based on race you chose and your gameplay both felt and was different based on race you chose.For example if you are Dalish you are going to get treated differently,many times you will get insulted in game for not being human,but at same time when you visit Dalish you are going to be recognized as being one of them,you will also know your culture(not like DA:I case in where Morrigan had to tell you story of your own people),aslo story about you would be different in end based on your race.So in DAO they've done more then well in order for you to feel as if you are playing different race(not like in DA:I).

But still,I was going by most of player's logic of "waste of resources if it is not by majority players" because in that female option is as much as waste as adding playable races.

[Panda]

i am not claiming there is no value but there isn't a huge number of players that actually USE the feature compared to those that don't. This alone isn't a reason not to have race selection but it is something to consider when you factor in cost. If 95% of people don't experience a feature but it only cost 1% of the game's budget to include it is probably worth including. If 80% of people don't experience content that costs 15%, 20% or MORE of your budget it probably isn't worth including.

 

We have seen how player choice in DA:I hasn't given us a superior game. I like DA:I but I think it fails not because of the open world per say but because all the meaningless player choice that was added that meant that they had fewer resources to fill the open world. That and the story was pretty weak in its pacing. DA:I has the most player choice ever and that isn't free. 4 protagonist voices, 12 companions/advisors, 4 playable races multiple skyhold customization choices. Lots of armours to choose from, with multiple colours to dye them in. All this choice comes at a cost and it didn't produce a better game. Choice in an of itself doesn't create a better experience, it should almost never be used as a gauge for inclusion because it is meaningless in and of itself. What did the choice cost to include? How many people will use it? Does it make the CORE game experience better? What do we have to give up to include it?  What is it actually adding to the gaming experience? These are far better questions than would player want the choice.

 

I did find the source in the end as a fyi.

 

DA:I was delayed a year and in that time they changed their minds and added playable races in hind sight I think they should have taken those funds and made more content for the open world, expanded Dialogue in side quests and fleshed out what features they already had vs adding three more playable races.

 

Race selection in DAI is probably best thing that happened in the game in my viewpoint so I can't quite agree... I also wonder if used cost of race animations really was the reason why game wasn't as good as it could have been. Even if there wasn't race selection those resources could have been used in something less important.

 

The thing is that if Bioware went only with what majority does the game wouldn't have much choices and replayability. I have played all Origins over multiple times and probably most Bioware fans have as well when those who likely played only human are more of casual players. Choices are needed for those players who play multiple times and like to have choices and those players who only play as non-human races if there is possibility.

 

I also think that Bioware having race selection in ME:A would been something rather new and refresshing. There is not that many games around that have as complex alien races and having these playable would be great selling point for the game. There is lot of fantasy games with race selection, but not enough scifi games in my opinion

[Keitaro57]

Right, MEA is a new start for the ME franchise. If they choose to make an human as the main character, human who will begin as an N7 soldier, promote to be a spectre, has a badass spaceship and a multirace crew that come with him to kill foes... It will bring absolutely nothing to the ME franchise!

 

Don't talk about ressources! We know now for sure that most of the money goes to the marketing part (for Witcher 3, devs says that 2/3 of the money was used for that). What I really DON'T want to see, is a very beautiful MEA with awesome graphics but as empty as a bar after an permission of a whole taskforce of Krogans. Destiny was a well-selling game but was almost empty : If EA want that Bioware follow that path to make a game as cashcow as possible it will NOT be for the better of the franchise. For that, I hope to find lot of new features and one of the biggest good point of the ME world is his well-developped races. If MEA is a lot of way a reboot of the franchise, making a cross of a so well-made background sound more like walking in the wrong direction.

 

For TW3, devs take their time to make a full game. If Bioware must rush out the MEA game to please to EA, we will never seen an good game. Ever.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

One of the key elements of Mass Effect so far has been the dynamic of humanity's role in a political galaxy, as expressed through a human protagonist.

 

Of course, this is as close to a new IP as one can get, while still technically being an existing franchise. As such, all bets are off, as far as what dynamics, species-related or otherwise, are going to form the thrust of the new game.

 

Whether the protagonist can be non-human or not isn't going to mean much on its own. Being human-only will be the best choice if that is what thematically suits the story and context being created for the new game. If the unity of different species working together while cut off from their government were a dynamic, then limiting us to humans would weaken the game somewhat.

 

I don't know enough details to have a preference (apart from the "all things being equal more choice is better" principle.) Whichever direction they go, it is far better to make the choice early, dedicate the appropriate resources to that choice, and follow through with it in all aspects, so that the story is reactive to the player's species and role, regardless of whether humanity is one of the variables, or not.

 

At the time I didn't know the decision had already been made, but I stand by this.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Bottom line: BioWare is lazy. They don't want to invest the time and effort in creating a playable races. Goddamn it! I wanna be a ****** Drell.

[Andrew Lucas]

Actually there was a quote from the developers can't recall where I heard it that stated that most of characters made for DA:O where human.  I believe Gaider said it. There were more than one post/thread on the topic. I recall that only 5% of people ever played the dwarf origins. I can't recall the exact numbers but I think humans were around 75-80%. Again facts trump feeling.
 
I'll see if I can find the metrics. just to be clear these are DA:O figures no DA:I figures are released.(At least i can't find them)
 
Secondary source stating bioware stats but haven't found a primary source yet for the 80%
http://www.gamefaqs....57953065?page=4
 
Secondary source but the link page is dead
 
 

http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Originsnear the bottom in the trivial section
 
Primary source found.
http://forum.bioware...-da3/?bioware=1
 
 
Quote for Elves.
 
 

 
Quote for Dwarves.
 
 
 

The numbers that we do have show there is not a huge number of players. Perception isn't reality. Facts are reality.
 
Bioware should not simply blindly add choice to a game without thinking about the cost. Which David Gaider states here as well,
it is the first post he makes in the thread i have already sourced. Cost is a REAL issue and there isn't a huge demand for playable races.
 
[Edit] i made a formating error that included two quotes and my coments into a single quote. i have fixed it don't want to claim David said something he didn't. sorry for anyone reading that before I fixed it.

Bottom line: BioWare is lazy. They don't want to invest the time and effort in creating a playable races. Goddamn it! I wanna be a ****** Drell.

No, it's their game, their story, they can do whatever they want with it. You will not be a Drell, you will be a human, now you can move on, please.

[Asari Goddess]

Oh goddess, please tell me they're making asaris as a playable character race

 

I mean they did very well interpreting the races play styles and mechanics in ME3 multiplayer so i don't see why not develop more from it. Shepard was one of the best human protagonist, and its ok that there will be another so called human to play as but i think it would be more realistic if it had other alien races available, as humans aren't the only race in the universe that can save the day.

 

Especially knowing that there are other races like asaris that have superior natural biotic powers, Krogans that lots of endurance and brute strength, salarians with their intelligence and fast processing minds, and so on.

[Iakus]

Even if we did get "playable races" we'd still be playing humans.

 

It takes more than blue skin, scales, or a slightly distorted voice to be "playing an alien"  At best, you'd be a Rubber Forehead Alien and what's the point of that?  Cheaper to just do backgrounds, and it would amount to as much

[Asari Goddess]

Even if we did get "playable races" we'd still be playing humans.

 

It takes more than blue skin, scales, or a slightly distorted voice to be "playing an alien"  At best, you'd be a Rubber Forehead Alien and what's the point of that?  Cheaper to just do backgrounds, and it would amount to as much

 

With that in mind i don't see why asaris wouldn't be able to be in the game as the only thing they have to do is change the skin color and the head shape of the human model, Replacing the hair with tentacles

 

+

  = 

 

PERFECTION

[Killroy]

If the only difference is skin color and head tentacles then why bother at all?

[Asari Goddess]

the race itself

[Barquiel]

For me, race selection would have been a huge plus...especially since I don't see why everything has to be so human-centric in the Mass Effect universe (human and their place in the galaxy, cerberus, the fixation on earth in ME3, etc.). That's why I am a bit disappointed that they took the lazy route and we are forced to play as a human (boring...) again, but it is not necessarily a deal-breaker.

I like to play as non-humans as often as possible, personally. That's why I'm also glad they let us choose our race in DA:I. It definitely increased replayability (I doubt I would have completed the game more than once without the different playable races), and I think the story is even more fun as an elf.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Hey, big fan here. I loved Mass Effect and Dragon Age series. But there is always room for improvement. Playable races in ME for starters and real open world for DA. Do this and I can die a happy camper... I really want to be a Drell...really.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Why not have playable races in the game? I think it is a great idea to branch out the Mass Effect franchise and it they did it before with DA:Origins and Inquisition so what's stopping them from doing it?