If so, please fix the renegade system. There's a fine line between being an anti hero and being an *******. One of the reasons why I never played Renegade Shepard was because he/she did wicked acts for no good reason.
Even Handsome Jack had more sense than renegade shep
I hope they scrap the hole concept and use something like Dragon age's approval system. But there's no need to prompt mesaying that Character X's aproves or disapproves my actions. Talking with them should give enough hints if the character likes me or not.
What wicked acts did Shepard do?
What wicked acts did Shepard do?
Not choosing to spread the cure for the Krogan and then trying to lie to Wrex.
Not choosing to spread the cure for the Krogan and then trying to lie to Wrex.
That's not being wicked. That's trying to maximize the number of war assets to use against the reapers
Not choosing to spread the cure for the Krogan and then trying to lie to Wrex.
It makes sense if Shepard distrusts the Krogan or prefers to have Salarian support. It's pretty cold but not unreasonable. The most pointless thing renegade Shepard can do is punch the reporter.
Approval tracking of the kind that breaks it down into numbers easily viewed by a player is dumb and contradictory to the biowares goal which I'm assuming is supposed to be immersion. In the real world we all have to make choices and it's seldom as cut and dried as having someone give me a good report or bad report card. I believe such systems came about because in the old days games had little to no voicing, and not that much descriptive text. We've moved on from those days, and I believe paragon/renegade is nearing it's expiry date now that everything is well emoted by voice actors, facial expressions and the animation of body language and muscle. You should see what developers are capable of when they put their minds to it, look at the new lara croft how her throat muscles tense up, veins pop out, how the hair moves. She's almost like a real person now.
I hope yes. And vastly improved, of course (I loved renegade, but I agree, it should be different).
I want paragon/renegade or any other system that will allow me to play as charismatic protagonist, instead blank slate character, where all 3 dialogue options are basically the same (I'm looking at you, DA:I)
That's not being wicked. That's trying to maximize the number of war assets to use against the reapers
Yeah, that's not being evil, that depends on the perspective... but this is completely evil:
The look Shepard gives in the end gives me the creeps D=
25 renegade points... this must be a record lol
It makes sense if Shepard distrusts the Krogan or prefers to have Salarian support. It's pretty cold but not unreasonable. The most pointless thing renegade Shepard can do is punch the reporter.
And push that guy out of the window in Mass Effect 2.
That's not being wicked. That's trying to maximize the number of war assets to use against the reapers
So you're trying to say that choosing not to cure a race and killing off one of the coolest characters in the game is okay for a couple of Salarian scientists?
And push that guy out of the window in Mass Effect 2.
The merc on Illium, right. And I forgot about Parasini. But then again, Shepards guns down hundreds of mercs all the time just because they're in the way. I always took paragon choice as diplomatic and renegade as violent, rather than good and evil (ex. legion's loyalty mission, is brainwashing better than killing?).
I'm fine with the paragon/renegade distinction but I hope they'll give us generic reputation points to unlock the dialogue instead of having to stick with one branch. Playing pure paragon/renegade makes Shepard a caricature.
Yeah, that's not being evil, that depends on the perspective... but this is completely evil:
The look Shepard gives in the end gives me the creeps D=
25 renegade points... this must be a record lol
Nothing evil about that. Shepard had no idea it would end up the way it did.
Here's what Shepard can do. One of my favorite playthroughs
So you're trying to say that choosing not to cure a race and killing off one of the coolest characters in the game is okay for a couple of Salarian scientists?
Yes.
Wrex might be a cool character for you, but he's not for me. I prefer Wreav over Wrex
How about letting hundreds of civilians burn alive so a merc can get revenge on a petty warlord?
If you chose to interprest it that way then yes, it's evil. On the other hand, this petty warlord has shown that he is perfectly happy to kill those civilians. If he's allowed to live, chances are he will kill many more. Thus by sacrificing the people in the refinery, you likely save more lives in the long run.
Regarding the genophage, everything we know about the krogan says, once recovered, they'll launch further war, with billions upon billions more caustalies. Curing it is the evil option, as it would unleash that upon the galaxy. And even if not doing so involves betraying a friend, that changes nothing. Anyone who would put personal loyalties above the lives of others cannot be considered good.
Quantitative morality systems have never been a good idea, because there's no way to provide the game with enough information to capture the nuance of what you're doing and why.
The also tend to encourage player characters who remain static in their beliefs, while playing someone who actually grows is punished.
I thought ME2 handled Renegade the best.
There's an argument to be made that the blame for any Krogan war lies with the Salarians and Turians for uplifting them in the first place. Curing the genophage, on its own, could be seen as a good act.If you chose to interprest it that way then yes, it's evil. On the other hand, this petty warlord has shown that he is perfectly happy to kill those civilians. If he's allowed to live, chances are he will kill many more. Thus by sacrificing the people in the refinery, you likely save more lives in the long run.
Regarding the genophage, everything we know about the krogan says, once recovered, they'll launch further war, with billions upon billions more caustalies. Curing it is the evil option, as it would unleash that upon the galaxy. And even if not doing so involves betraying a friend, that changes nothing. Anyone who would put personal loyalties above the lives of others cannot be considered good.
First part I agree that's a perfectly valid line of thinking. To the second you presuppose that's a foregone conclusion.If you chose to interprest it that way then yes, it's evil. On the other hand, this petty warlord has shown that he is perfectly happy to kill those civilians. If he's allowed to live, chances are he will kill many more. Thus by sacrificing the people in the refinery, you likely save more lives in the long run.
Regarding the genophage, everything we know about the krogan says, once recovered, they'll launch further war, with billions upon billions more caustalies. Curing it is the evil option, as it would unleash that upon the galaxy. And even if not doing so involves betraying a friend, that changes nothing. Anyone who would put personal loyalties above the lives of others cannot be considered good.
There's an argument to be made that the blame for any Krogan war lies with the Salarians and Turians for uplifting them in the first place. Curing the genophage, on its own, could be seen as a good act.
And that's why morality systems suck. Morality changes so much based on how you frame the question, and whether you judge acts or outcomes, or whether you take intent into account.
Oh, completely. There's good arguments for both sides on this and a fair few other decisions in ME - and those are often the best moments of the game. Hell, I still can't decide which I think is the "good" choice in Legion's loyalty mission.
And yeah, morality systems are not a good thing. Having a system that tracks how you are percieved is OK in my book - provided there is some scope for different groups of people percieving you acitons in different ways [and for actions that aren't witnessed to not effect it] - but a system that actually assigns actions as "good" and "evil" [or whatever the local renaming of those things are] is far too limiting.
There's an argument to be made that the blame for any Krogan war lies with the Salarians and Turians for uplifting them in the first place. Curing the genophage, on its own, could be seen as a good act.
And that's why morality systems suck. Morality changes so much based on how you frame the question, and whether you judge acts or outcomes, or whether you take intent into account.
agreed. I think even judges recoginze intent in most court of laws, and allow it to affect judgement don't they?
First part I agree that's a perfectly valid line of thinking. To the second you presuppose that's a foregone conclusion.
It's not foregone, but it's likely based on the evidence we have. And to risk billions of lives on the chance that the krogan will suddenly decide to act completely differently from everything they've done in the past is a crazy risk.
Not to mention, the if the krogan can change in this way, then curing the genopahge is unneccesary. If they stop fighting and dying, then their species can survive as is.
I hated Legion's loyalty mission for this. There was just no way to choose and have any confidence that you were doing the right thing. Despite the suppose urgency of the moment, I stood there forever trying to decide.Oh, completely. There's good arguments for both sides on this and a fair few other decisions in ME - and those are often the best moments of the game. Hell, I still can't decide which I think is the "good" choice in Legion's loyalty mission.
I completely agree.And yeah, morality systems are not a good thing. Having a system that tracks how you are percieved is OK in my book - provided there is some scope for different groups of people percieving you acitons in different ways [and for actions that aren't witnessed to not effect it] - but a system that actually assigns actions as "good" and "evil" [or whatever the local renaming of those things are] is far too limiting.
If it's true they are going the whole colonize the new galaxy thing (like claim territory in DA:I) i hope they allow the option to be as aggressive and greedy as the Conquistadors.
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