94 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Wait a second. Why isn't Shepard in conflict with the heretics? Shepard's fighting the Reapers, and the heretics are outright pro-Reaper.

Not that being in conflict with them necessarily justifies brainwashing them or blowing them up, of course.

You'd need to also take an EMS hit in ME3, since the heretics would be on the Reapers' side from the start. I don't know how Rannoch should play out with this option.

I doubt they we're considering the specific details of ME3's plot when they wrote ME2.

ME3 was written as it was to accommodate ME2's details.

[Sylvius the Mad]

One problem with this: the heretics threaten everyone else. Remember also, the heretics were planning on implementing a virus that would make all geth side with the reapers. Legion even tells you this before even going on the mission. To ignore the mission and leave the heretics be would be to disregard all sapient life throughout the galaxy, because you are now willingly letting a hostile faction dedicated to the extermination of galactic society.

I clearly don't remember the details of the quest.

I should probably stop referring to ME2. It was a game I played once, and hated, 4 years ago.

[KaiserShep]

I clearly don't remember the details of the quest.

I should probably stop referring to ME2. It was a game I played once, and hated, 4 years ago.

 

lol fair enough. Needless to say that the only reason that mission didn't have greater ramifications is because it's optional. 

[AlanC9]

I doubt they we're considering the specific details of ME3's plot when they wrote ME2.

ME3 was written as it was to accommodate ME2's details.

True, but going with something like the Rannoch option helps to accomodate your new heretic refuse option. It keeps the divergence under control if both geth factions end up at Rannoch anyway, rather than have a Reaper-allied geth fleet running around only in the case where Shepard didn't take either action.

Actually, there's a problem with the whole Legion LM mission concept. If Shepard never does the mission -- never activated Legion, Legion dies, or Shepard just never goes -- then how come the virus isn't released? I suppose we need to headcanon that some other geth platforms handled the mission, the same way Arrival is handled.

[AlanC9]

One problem with this: the heretics threaten everyone else. Remember also, the heretics were planning on implementing a virus that would make all geth side with the reapers. Legion even tells you this before even going on the mission. To ignore the mission and leave the heretics be would be to disregard all sapient life throughout the galaxy, because you are now willingly letting a hostile faction dedicated to the extermination of galactic society.

This part you could write around. Have the additional option be to simply destroy the virus -- it's the standard no plans, no prototype, no backup situation, right?

[Laughing_Man]

I value sapience.

 

Me too. But not everyone, at least not in the case of synthetics, and I can understand a point of view that does not consider synthetics

as equal to organics, even if I don't really agree in this case.

 

I noticed that you ignored the rest of my post.

[Hazegurl]

Not choosing to spread the cure for the Krogan and then trying to lie to Wrex.

So you think it makes sense for Shep to allow billions of Krogran to spread around the galaxy.  Despite displaying nothing but violent tendencies  throughout three games. Because s/he sees some plants on their nuclear waste dump of a planet? 

[KaiserShep]

This part you could write around. Have the additional option be to simply destroy the virus -- it's the standard no plans, no prototype, no backup situation, right?

 

But I doubt it would be like Maelon's data, where Maelon had to go through a lot of trial and error to do it. If the heretics remain hostile, there's no good reason why they couldn't just start over and try again once they're left alone. 

 

As for consequences (or lack thereof) for not doing the mission, I guess Geth VI had something to do with it, though I honestly do not remember much of anything with that thing. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

I noticed that you ignored the rest of my post.

I realized that I don't remember the quest (or the game) well enough to discuss it in detail.

But I did never accept that Shepard needed to value the things the Alliance wanted her to value.

I would have been a terrible soldier.

[Laughing_Man]

So you think it makes sense for Shep to allow billions of Krogran to spread around the galaxy.  Despite displaying nothing but violent tendencies  throughout three games. Because s/he sees some plants on their nuclear waste dump of a planet? 

 

Yeah, a cure would have been a good idea IF it also modified the Krogan birth rate to a more... sane rate.

[Iakus]

But I doubt it would be like Maelon's data, where Maelon had to go through a lot of trial and error to do it. If the heretics remain hostile, there's no good reason why they couldn't just start over and try again once they're left alone. 

 

As for consequences (or lack thereof) for not doing the mission, I guess Geth VI had something to do with it, though I honestly do not remember much of anything with that thing. 

Well, the virus was on a Reaper hard drive, and required Reaper "stuff" to open.  I suppose one could argue that the virus was actually designed at least in part by Sovereign, and without his help, the Heretics would have a really hard time replicating it. 

[Laughing_Man]

I realized that I don't remember the quest (or the game) well enough to discuss it in detail.

But I did never accept that Shepard needed to value the things the Alliance wanted her to value.

I would have been a terrible soldier.

 

Not just about soldiering, the question is, why would you value the existance of a hostile group of synthetics above your own species?

[Iakus]

So you think it makes sense for Shep to allow billions of Krogran to spread around the galaxy.  Despite displaying nothing but violent tendencies  throughout three games. Because s/he sees some plants on their nuclear waste dump of a planet? 

The krogan were still demilitarized, remember.  They had to hitch a ride from the quarians to get to Palaven, after all

[PlatonicWaffles]

Boy I hope not.

[Hazegurl]

The krogan were still demilitarized, remember.  They had to hitch a ride from the quarians to get to Palaven, after all

Yet they still had access to guns et al before the Reaper War.  Not to mention the fact that their bodies alone are weapons.  And they continued to display a need to wage war, fight, and kill well into ME3.  I don't see how them not having a military makes them less dangerous.  They pretty much ruined their own planet by just fighting each other.

 

Yeah, a cure would have been a good idea IF it also modified the Krogan birth rate to a more... sane rate.

 

This would have been a much better compromise for me. 

[Iakus]

Yet they still had access to guns et al before the Reaper War.  Not to mention the fact that their bodies alone are weapons.  And they continued to display a need to wage war, fight, and kill well into ME3.  I don't see how them not having a military makes them less dangerous.  They pretty much ruined their own planet by just fighting each other.

Without proper warships, or even the ability to mobilize on a large scale, the damage they can inflict on the galaxy is pretty limited.

 

 Though I suppose Wreav could do a number on Australia 

 

Plus all their fertile females are on Tuchanka.  All you have to do is blockade it and pretty soon all they can do is fight each other

[Hazegurl]

I doubt it would be that simple when you're dealing with billions of Krogran.  If it was, they could have done that years ago instead of the Genophage.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Not just about soldiering, the question is, why would you value the existance of a hostile group of synthetics above your own species?

Why would I value my own species at all?

[LinksOcarina]

There's an argument to be made that the blame for any Krogan war lies with the Salarians and Turians for uplifting them in the first place. Curing the genophage, on its own, could be seen as a good act.

And that's why morality systems suck. Morality changes so much based on how you frame the question, and whether you judge acts or outcomes, or whether you take intent into account.

 

One problem.

 

Does Paragon/Renegade denote actual mortality, or frame ethics?

[Iakus]

One problem.

 

Does Paragon/Renegade denote actual mortality, or frame ethics?

I always denoted Paragon/Renegade more with law/chaos than good/evil.  

 

Paragon means following proper procedure.  Even if the procedure if obstructionist or less than totally effective   Honor Before Reason

 

 Renegade means getting the job done even if it means stepping on toes Screw the Rules, I'm doing What's Right

 

Problem is it all too often became LS/DS points.  Paragon became the Space Paladin and Renegade became "Evil for the Lulz"

[Laughing_Man]

Why would I value my own species at all?

 

Why not? At the very least, they are sapient like the Geth, no?

It also includes your family, maybe your friends, lovers, etc. (I guess that it's possible that you don't care about them either)

 

Besides, I don't know about you, but Shepard obviously does.

[KaiserShep]

Why would I value my own species at all?

Wouldn't the claim to value sapience ring hollow if you didn't? 

[mickey111]

I think sylvius might be a robot guys...

[LinksOcarina]

I always denoted Paragon/Renegade more with law/chaos than good/evil.  

 

Paragon means following proper procedure.  Even if the procedure if obstructionist or less than totally effective   Honor Before Reason

 

 Renegade means getting the job done even if it means stepping on toes Screw the Rules, I'm doing What's Right

 

Problem is it all too often became LS/DS points.  Paragon became the Space Paladin and Renegade became "Evil for the Lulz"

 

Oh of course, that is game design and simple process in the end, like the Open Palm/Closed Fist philosophies boiled down to light/dark side stuff.

 

The truth of the matter is there needs to be more nuance to the decisions.

[Hazegurl]

Why would I value my own species at all?

"While the Reapers are focused on Earth, we can strengthen our own borders." -Asari Councilor.