"While the Reapers are focused on Earth, we can strengthen our own borders." -Asari Councilor.
Funnily enough, that was exactly what Ashley said that they would do in ME1... And to some degree it makes sense to be honest.
The only problem is that they ignored the fact that the Reapers were just too strong for a few new fortifications to make any difference.
Funnily enough, that was exactly what Ashley said that they would do in ME1... And to some degree it makes sense to be honest.
I seem to recall she was called all sorts of horrible things for pointing that out too 
Yeah poor Ash. She totally called that one.
I can't believe the Americans wouldn't detain the German prisoners. Killing is wasteful, only slightly better than letting them go. A live trooper can provide information, or labor, or even be paid to turn sides if they fit the mercenary mindset.
Even if you may be right on principle, society as whole would condemn that act as an atrocity...and it's society (collectively) which dictates what is good and evil.
One problem.
Does Paragon/Renegade denote actual mortality, or frame ethics?
As defined in the first game, ethics.
As actually applied throughout ME2 and ME3, morality.
There's no way to reconcile the written definitions of Paragon and Renegade in ME1 with the actual use of the labels in ME2.
Why not? At the very least, they are sapient like the Geth, no?
It also includes your family, maybe your friends, lovers, etc. (I guess that it's possible that you don't care about them either)
Besides, I don't know about you, but Shepard obviously does.
Shepard values what I decide she values.
Otherwise the game doesn't make sense.
Wouldn't the claim to value sapience ring hollow if you didn't?
Perhaps, but then I'd be valuing because of some characteristic they exhibited, not because they were my species.
If I'm being principled, that they're my species isn't relevant.
"While the Reapers are focused on Earth, we can strengthen our own borders." -Asari Councilor.
That's evidence that the Asari do, not that they should (or that humans should). You've run afoul of the is-ought problem.
That's evidence that the Asari do, not that they should (or that humans should). You've run afoul of the is-ought problem.
Said in front of the Turian and Salarian Councilor who agreed and none of them lifted a finger to help unless they got something in return or when they absolutely had to. You should also go ask Wrex and Wreav if they give two craps about humans if they didn't get a good deal out of it. I can count on one hand the individuals who wanted to aid Shepard/Humans out of kindness. I don't think any of the alien races care if some human values their lives over their own, cause they sure value the lives of their own over humans. As we've seen in-game. Not that I blame them.
Which just proves that they're all racists.
Exactly. It says nothing about whether racism is good.Which just proves that they're all racists.
Which just proves that they're all racists.
Exactly. It says nothing about whether racism is good.
It simply proves that naturally, organics tend to care more about those that are close to them than about aliens.
And I don't think that it's necessarily a bad thing.
Sure, you need to be aware of the bigger picture, and it does not excuse being an evil monster, but caring more about your "clan" is simply a natural thing to do.
Dunno, enjoyed being Renegade badass.
Which just proves that they're all racists.
<<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>
In dire straits, species survival is a strong motivator and has nothing to do with racism.
It simply proves that naturally, organics tend to care more about those that are close to them than about aliens.
And I don't think that it's necessarily a bad thing.
Sure, you need to be aware of the bigger picture, and it does not excuse being an evil monster, but caring more about your "clan" is simply a natural thing to do.
altruism is not a survival instinct. 
Probably. All we can hope is that they steer closer to ME3's improved reputation system instead of ME2's rewarding of morally partisan behavior.
I was going to respond and say, "All of which doesn't address the question I asked."It simply proves that naturally, organics tend to care more about those that are close to them than about aliens.
And I don't think that it's necessarily a bad thing.
Sure, you need to be aware of the bigger picture, and it does not excuse being an evil monster, but caring more about your "clan" is simply a natural thing to do.
If that is read as "Why might I value my own species at all?" or a request for help finding such a justification, I think you (and the others) have actually done a really good job of answering the question.Why would I value my own species at all?
<<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>
In dire straits, species survival is a strong motivator and has nothing to do with racism.
What I was trying to ask, though, was, "Why would I necessarily value my own species?" It seemed to me that people were assuming that any character would, and I was looking for justification for that assumption. I was arguing that one cpuld have a moral standard which one's own species failed to meet, or failed to meet as well as some other species (something I think needs to be possible in any defensible moral system).
Moral worth needs to be based on something. Things we grant moral worth need to exhibit some characteristic we value, and it's that characteristic that grants them moral worth. If some other species does a better job of exhibiting that characteristic, or if we discover that our own species largely doesn't exhibit that characteristic, then we wouldn't value our own species as much (or at all).
Maybe not any character would, but many probably would. We're not equating the choice to morality, but the animal instinct to preserve the species. It's certainly possible that one would find another species more worthy of saving than humanity. But I suspect such people would be in the minority.
Retour en haut