264 réponses à ce sujet

[Jewellzify]

Are you sure about that? You still seem to be missing the point so I can't imagine that you have read the thread in it's entirety, it is not snide to point out how badly the point is going over your head, I am merely trying to help you get the information you need in order to make a more informed post regarding the subject of the thread.

 

 

The title of your thread, 

Should the protagonist have a pre-set appearance and gender like Jade Empire?"

 

My answer, " No, the CC is fundamental in Bioware games because Bioware stands behind player choice.. so it should be our choice to choose how our character looks, if you decide to use a default fine, but the rest of us should have the option to create our own look for the character." 

 

So please tell me, what point am I missing exactly?? If you want this thread to be about a character's title and how they are addressed by companions, then perhaps you need to rename your thread...

[KaiserShep]

I'm a bit on the fence about whether or not a character creator is "fundamental" to BioWare games, but at this point it's pretty much a staple feature that has done nothing but improve with each game. They've come this far with it. I find it preferable that they continue to refine it than abandon it. I don't consider any pros of the latter outweighing that of the former.

[Jewellzify]

I'm a bit on the fence about whether or not a character creator is "fundamental" to BioWare games, but at this point it's pretty much a staple feature that has done nothing but improve with each game. They've come this far with it. I find it preferable that they continue to refine it than abandon it. I don't consider any pros of the latter outweighing that of the former.

 

The reason I use the word "fundamental" when talking about the CC is because it has always been available in Bioware games.. It's part of player choice and it is a loved feature that Bioware provides regardless if the options are limited and not exactly what we want.. we've always had the option to use it.. Thought I would explain myself a little better on my wording.. I agree with you, there is always room for improvement on many things, but that does not mean that they should be scrapped..And not a reason to give us one preset character to play the game as... 

[Queen Skadi]

See, but this is a different argument entirely. I'm not totally opposed to a fixed first name, because I've come to terms with the limitations of the current system. However, at the same time, the character's appearance is something I can have some level of control over with negligible to zero effect on everything else, and it's fun to personalize the PC's facial features. This is why I don't think that the comparison works. One directly affects a meaningful aspect of the game and the other does not.

 

You said it was necessary to take control away from the player in regards to being able to define their own surname and backstory just so other characters in the game have something to call you by and reference about your character, I showed you this is false as most of the time your character's last name is never mentioned and your past has no relevance to anything in the game and is only really mentioned in throw away dialogue.

 

How is taking away control from the player in regards to defining their own surname and backstory for the sake of other characters being able to reference the pre-defined surname and backstory so much different from taking away control over the character's appearance so other characters can reference visual traits of your character?

[Queen Skadi]

The title of your thread, 

Should the protagonist have a pre-set appearance and gender like Jade Empire?"

 

There is only so much you can say in a thread title darling, to actually understand what the thread is about you actually have to read the thread to understand the ongoing conversation within, surely it isn't that much of an ask that you actually read the thread in order to inform yourself of what the thread is about is it?

[Jewellzify]

There is only so much you can say in a thread title darling, to actually understand what the thread is about you actually have to read the thread to understand the ongoing conversation within, surely it isn't that much of an ask that you actually read the thread in order to inform yourself of what the thread is about is it?

 

Which I have done, which I have explained, which you clearly are not getting... Your point being take away personalized characters for a less meaningful preset, which the majority of the thread has disagreed with you regarding.. You think the the CC is pointless due to the fact that the companions do not address the protagonist by a particular title and you think this can be addressed by removing the option to personalize the protagonist.. which again, most have disagreed.. as have I... Still not sure why this is an argument that you can not see that has already been addressed.. Let's say Bioware gives you a preset (which they do, they're just defaults that you have the option to customize.), do you really think that all companions will address the preset by a first name, more than likely they will be addressed by their rank (ie: Commander, Herald, Inquisitor etc..), by their surname (which was done in DA:I if you paid attention..), or by a nickname (like Varric does in DAI: Curly, Sparkler etc.). So, please continue explaining how Bioware providing preset defaults with the option of customization does not meet your needs...

[Hazegurl]

 Let's say Bioware gives you a preset (which they do, they're just defaults that you have the option to customize.), do you really think that all companions will address the preset by a first name, more than likely they will be addressed by their rank (ie: Commander, Herald, Inquisitor etc..), by their surname (which was done in DA:I if you paid attention..), or by a nickname (like Varric does in DAI: Curly, Sparkler etc.). So, please continue explaining how Bioware providing preset defaults with the option of customization does not meet your needs...

For Fallout 4 they have recorded over 1000 popular names to help personalize the experience.  And I actually enjoyed the characters in the Witcher call Geralt by his name, as well as mention his appearance, his eyes, pale skin, white hair. It cements Geralt as a part of the world and even creates a more intimate atmosphere.  It would have been cringy to have Triss or Yen refer to the PC as "Witcher" or something generic or whatever last name Geralt would make up.  If Fallout 4 is successful with the whole recording names idea, it may be the first step to RPGs searching for more ways to personalize the experience and who knows, BW may very well ditch the nicknames and titles in the future as tech gets better.

 

Even MGSV had a moment where your selected name had some significance to the plot.

 

But we won't know how all of this will play out until a few weeks from now and in the future.

[straykat]

For Fallout 4 they have recorded over 1000 popular names to help personalize the experience.  And I actually enjoyed the characters in the Witcher call Geralt by his name, as well as mention his appearance, his eyes, pale skin, white hair. It cements Geralt as a part of the world and even creates a more intimate atmosphere.  It would have been cringy to have Triss or Yen refer to the PC as "Witcher" or something generic or whatever last name Geralt would make up.  If Fallout 4 is successful with the whole recording names idea, it may be the first step to RPGs searching for more ways to personalize the experience and who knows, BW may very well ditch the nicknames and titles in the future as tech gets better.

 

Even MGSV had a moment where your selected name had some significance to the plot.

 

But we won't know how all of this will play out until a few weeks from now and in the future.

 

I wonder if that's gonna be the case with Cyberpunk...

 

I have Witcher 3, but I've yet to play it actually. I don't mind the idea of fixed protagonist. My main problem there is just that it's sort of fan fiction from the devs and isn't really tied to or promoted by the original novelist (they got his approval, but he doesn't exactly have nice things to say).

[Hazegurl]

I wonder if that's gonna be the case with Cyberpunk...

 

I have Witcher 3, but I've yet to play it actually. I don't mind the idea of fixed protagonist. My main problem there is just that it's sort of fan fiction from the devs and isn't really tied to or promoted by the original novelist (they got his approval, but he doesn't exactly have nice things to say).

From what I understand is that the games are set after the story and the novelist began hating the story overall and can't even bring himself to complete it.  I wish I could remember the interview I read from him.  I don't get the impression that he hates the games but that he considers the games separate from the original story, which I think is for the best as it allows CDPR to have more freedom.

 

I do wonder what they plan to do with Cyberpunk, I heard they will have a CC and they do play other RPGs so I wonder if they will play Fallout 4 and see what could be implemented for their own game.

[Jewellzify]

For Fallout 4 they have recorded over 1000 popular names to help personalize the experience.  And I actually enjoyed the characters in the Witcher call Geralt by his name, as well as mention his appearance, his eyes, pale skin, white hair. It cements Geralt as a part of the world and even creates a more intimate atmosphere.  It would have been cringy to have Triss or Yen refer to the PC as "Witcher" or something generic or whatever last name Geralt would make up.  If Fallout 4 is successful with the whole recording names idea, it may be the first step to RPGs searching for more ways to personalize the experience and who knows, BW may very well ditch the nicknames and titles in the future as tech gets better.

 

Even MGSV had a moment where your selected name had some significance to the plot.

 

But we won't know how all of this will play out until a few weeks from now and in the future.

 

True, but honestly who's to say that Bioware won't try to do something similar for ME:A? I'm simply stating that, what this thread was originally about was giving a preset character with no option of customization to the game, which I disagree with.. I have never minded my customized character being addressed as their surname or title.. As for defining features, in a conversation with Iron Bull in DA:I, he makes references to the Inquisitor's appearance when discussing Krem.. We'll all just have to wait and see what Bioware has in store, but I highly doubt they're going to announce a preset gender/race protagonist.. 

[Queen Skadi]

Which I have done, which I have explained

 

You explained but you aren't really demonstrating it, you can constantly tell me how you flew to the moon on a winged horse and sliced it in 2 but unless you can actually demonstrate it or show me evidence that you did it I have no reason to believe that you have and every post you have made in this thread points to the fact that the point has soared over your head.

 

Let me just ask you this, do you support the idea of pre-defined surnames and backgrounds? If so why?

[Former_Fiend]

I will say that I'm less concerned about the name than I am about the appearance. A set name, I could live with. 

[Queen Skadi]

I wonder if that's gonna be the case with Cyberpunk...

 

I have Witcher 3, but I've yet to play it actually. I don't mind the idea of fixed protagonist. My main problem there is just that it's sort of fan fiction from the devs and isn't really tied to or promoted by the original novelist (they got his approval, but he doesn't exactly have nice things to say).

 

As far as I know all the original Author has said on the matter is that the games are separate works based on his novels and not part of his canon or vision for the series, the games start where the books originally left off but they don't follow the direction Sapkowski had envisioned for the series.

 

I suppose you would be correct in a sense calling it fan fiction (though officially licensed fan fiction) as the writers are fans writing and continuing the story within the universe but it is professionally done fan fiction done to a high quality standard, it may be fan fiction but it isn't fan fiction quality so to speak.

[Jewellzify]

You explained but you aren't really demonstrating it, you can constantly tell me how you flew to the moon on a winged horse and sliced it in 2 but unless you can actually demonstrate it or show me evidence that you did it I have no reason to believe that you have and every post you have made in this thread points to the fact that the point has soared over your head.

 

Let me just ask you this, do you support the idea of pre-defined surnames and backgrounds? If so why?

 

Yes, I support pre-defined surnames and backgrounds, this is what Bioware has done for the DA series and for Shepherd in the ME triology. As to why, the character's past gives you a small definition of where that character is coming from (ie: Dalish, Nobility or in ME's case: a Colonist, Earthborn orphan, or Spacer with the back story of a Ruthless, Sole Survivor or War Hero vet). This adds to the character depth but still doesn't mean that we can't customize the appearance of the character with a preset surname and background.. Every game is a story and has a character with a back story, whether that character is preset or can be customized doesn't change the fact that the game is a story being told.. So, why should they remove the option of customization just because of a backstory or surname?

[straykat]

Truth to be old, every game that actually did have a fixed type of protag -- but also choice making like Bioware does -- has been either better than Bioware or were just as good in my mind.

 

Deus Ex, Witcher (so far..), Walking Dead, Planescape (if you want to count the Nameless One). So in practice, I guess it doesn't really matter to me. I like the feature of CC, but it's shown to me over again how much I don't really mind with it gone.

 

 

As for Cyberpunk, I know next to nothing about it, and yet it's probably the game I anticipate most right now. Go figure.

[Queen Skadi]

Yes, I support pre-defined surnames and backgrounds, this is what Bioware has done for the DA series and for Shepherd in the ME triology. As to why, the character's past gives you a small definition of where that character is coming from (ie: Dalish, Nobility or in ME's case: a Colonist, Earthborn orphan, or Spacer with the back story of a Ruthless, Sole Survivor or War Hero vet). This adds to the character depth but still doesn't mean that we can't customize the appearance of the character with a preset surname and background.. Every game is a story and has a character with a back story, whether that character is preset or can be customized doesn't change the fact that the game is a story being told.. So, why should they remove the option of customization just because of a backstory or surname?

 

But without the pre-defined surname or background the game allows more freedom for the players themselves to define who their character is, where they come from and what matters to them which in turns makes their character's actions and motivations more relevant to the player playing the game, however for some reason you support Bioware stripping this freedom from the player yet when it comes to something as superficial as appearance you consider the CC a fundamental part of the experience despite the appearance of your character having no effect on the game? Why?

[Queen Skadi]

As for Cyberpunk, I know next to nothing about it, and yet it's probably the game I anticipate most right now. Go figure.

 

Yeah I wish they would reveal at least some info on the game. We have seriously not heard anything in ages.

[Jewellzify]

But without the pre-defined surname or background the game allows more freedom for the players themselves to define who their character is, where they come from and what matters to them which in turns makes their character's actions and motivations more relevant to the player playing the game, however for some reason you support Bioware stripping this freedom from the player yet when it comes to something as superficial as appearance you consider the CC a fundamental part of the experience despite the appearance of your character having no effect on the game? Why?

 

It's a story... The writer is providing me with a story in which I can customize the character to make the story feel more personal whereas with a preset character, the story becomes less personal.. Simply put and to end the discussion, I prefer to use a CC.. as I explained above when I explained my wording, the CC is fundamental in Bioware games, in my opinion, because it's a loved feature and it has always been available and has become a sort-of Bioware signature, we can always expect the opportunity to customize our characters although it's not forced, you can still use preset defaults.. The pre-determined name that is used to identify my character does not bother me, I simply enjoy being able to customize my character.. TBH, I'm getting pretty dizzy from this conversations and the circles we're going in... Forcing a preset appearance removes the personal aspect, at least for me, which is why I am such a big fan of Bioware games.. If you want a preset gender, race, appearance etc, then choose a default... and those of us that want a personalized character still have the option to do so...

[straykat]

It hasn't exactly always been available though. Pre-Mass Effect and DAO, Character Creators were weak.

 

Kotor uses the same kind of basic skin options as WoW does. Or Morrowind.

 

 

I don't mind you saying it's a staple now, but that stuff sucked in the past. You just found a limited number of skins you could live and pressed Start. It was nothing.

[Jewellzify]

It hasn't exactly always been available though. Pre-Mass Effect and DAO, Character Creators were weak.

 

Kotor uses the same kind of basic skin options as WoW does. Or Morrowind.

 

 

I don't mind you saying it's a staple now, but that stuff sucked in the past. You just found a limited number of skins you could live and pressed Start. It was nothing.

 

Yes, they were weak, but not nonexistent. I'm just trying to state the fact that I disagree with a predetermined preset appearance as the only option as a character and I enjoy using a CC even if the options are limited.. In my opinion it makes the story more personal by being able to choose how you want the character to look.. Do I wish there was a way that the NPC could address my character by the first name I give them, sure that would be pretty awesome, but I also understand that that would be a tall order to fill with all the possibilities of names for characters, I'm not saying its impossible, but still it's a tall order..I'm just fine with rank or surname as a way for NPC's to address the protag, but I would still like the option of customizing my character..  

[straykat]

Yes, they were weak, but not nonexistent. I'm just trying to state the fact that I disagree with a predetermined preset appearance as the only option as a character and I enjoy using a CC even if the options are limited.. In my opinion it makes the story more personal by being able to choose how you want the character to look.. Do I wish there was a way that the NPC could address my character by the first name I give them, sure that would be pretty awesome, but I also understand that that would be a tall order to fill with all the possibilities of names for characters, I'm not saying its impossible, but still it's a tall order..I'm just fine with rank or surname as a way for NPC's to address the protag, but I would still like the option of customizing my character..  

 

Fair enough. I just think it didn't mattered much then. They were mostly blurry face pics that wrapped around a head.

 

I had more fun with Tony Hawk and basketball character creators than I did RPGs back then.

[Jewellzify]

Fair enough. I just think it didn't mattered much then. They were mostly blurry face pics that wrapped around a head.

 

I had more fun with Tony Hawk and basketball character creators than I did RPGs back then.

 

I can understand that, I've just always enjoyed making my own character no matter what the game.. be it a fighting game (like the older wrestling games where you could customize your wrestler), sports games, The Sims, or RPG games. To me it makes the game feel more personal in the sense that it's my version of the character playing out the story..

[straykat]

I can understand that, I've just always enjoyed making my own character no matter what the game.. be it a fighting game (like the older wrestling games where you could customize your wrestler), sports games, The Sims, or RPG games. To me it makes the game feel more personal in the sense that it's my version of the character playing out the story..

 

I know what you mean. I guess I'm on the fence with RPGs. Some I've liked it, some didn't care for.

 

I couldn't top Sheploo in ME. With DA, I tweaked everything and played a lot of characters. DA2 I loved default Femhawke. DAI is tedious, but I got a decent human face. I hate the story though and even if I tried something different, I don't care about most of it's race options. I don't feel like I'm personalizing anything like I did with DAO. It's just a bunch of tacky options thrown in for the sake of it.

[Jewellzify]

I know what you mean. I guess I'm on the fence with RPGs. Some I've liked it, some didn't care for.

 

I couldn't top Sheploo in ME. With DA, I tweaked everything and played a lot of characters. DA2 I loved default Femhawke. DAI is tedious, but I got a decent human face. I hate the story though and even if I tried something different, I don't care about most of it's race options. I don't feel like I'm personalizing anything like I did with DAO. It's just a bunch of tacky options thrown in for the sake of it.

 

Lol yeah, I know what you mean, I'll spend hours in the CC alone trying to "perfect" my characters, then start my game only to find I don't like something about the character and start over lol But I still enjoy it nonetheless. My husband gets quite annoyed with me though when every five minutes I'm asking his opinion of my character, "Do you think his/her lips are too big?" "Are his/her eyes too close together?" lmao. I can agree that some options for DA:I were tacky like the Qunari having the only options of a pulled back bun or variations of a mohawk lol

[straykat]

Lol yeah, I know what you mean, I'll spend hours in the CC alone trying to "perfect" my characters, then start my game only to find I don't like something about the character and start over lol But I still enjoy it nonetheless. My husband gets quite annoyed with me though when every five minutes I'm asking his opinion of my character, "Do you think his/her lips are too big?" "Are his/her eyes too close together?" lmao. I can agree that some options for DA:I were tacky like the Qunari having the only options of a pulled back bun or variations of a mohawk lol

 

Oh, I just didn't like the Qunari in the game at all. I wish it was human only like originally planned, but had origin stories. If I was to play Qunari though, it'd be female. They at least look decent (despite the few hair options).

 

It's cheesy though to have two Qunari (if you include Bull), who also happen to be Mercs, and who also happen to act like they're human, dress up in suits, and go to ballroom dances. That's what I mean by tacky. It's a gimmick... and can't even differentiate from Bull enough who already does all of that stuff too.

 

Point is though, if the origin/backstory is bad, then no amount of customization would win me over or make me feel personally connected.