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Should the protagonist have a pre-set appearance and gender like Jade Empire?


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#51
Panda

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Note sure you really understand what roleplaying is, being able to modify your character's appearance in Bioware games opens up absolutely no roleplaying opportunities at all, sure you can create a character that looks ugly or has red hair but it does not matter what your character looks like in game as it does not change how other characters react to your character nor does it open up any new "roleplaying opportunities", dialogue options or alternate paths to follow, the game is always the same no matter how your character looks and every character in the game will still want to bang yours despite their massive underbite.

 

 

And just because you can change the character's first name (which is never actually referenced or changes anything in game) and appearance (which again has no effect on anything in the game) does not make the character yours. Bioware give them a background, past relationships, families and prior experiences that mean nothing to the player playing them which makes them Bioware's characters and not the player's. What is that you say? You hate that mother figure Bioware saddled the protagonist with without the player's input? Well you can go suck a doodle because Hawke loves their mother and will display maudlin emotion when she gets turned into frankenbride, because this is Bioware's character and not yours!

 

I am not trying to argue that Geralt is somehow not a set protagonist because you get a degree of control over his appearance and actions, as I said before while I do prefer games that allow me to create my own character I appreciate set-protagonists more when they drop the pretense and don't try to claim the character is somehow not a set-protagonist. But don't try to fool yourself into thinking that just because you can change a character's first name and appearance that this makes them any less of a set-character, Shepard has always been and will always be Bioware's character no matter how hard you try to delude yourself into thinking otherwise.

 

 

I don't think set protagonist and protagonist that is up to player (is there name for protagonist type games like ME, DA and Skyrim for example have?) are two opposites, but rather there is scale. Some games don't let almost anything be up to players like Last of Us, some have set protagonist, but allow roleplay like Witcher and some let you craft your own protagonist in varying level. There is good and bad sides in every option, but overall characters like Geralt will always have their look and their personality, that's not really up to you. Geralt will always be Geralt, when Shepard can be either John, Jane or even Dice (my Shepard) or close to anyone. Bioware has made setting of course, but that setting is somewhat loose so character will be yours.



#52
In Exile

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Jade Empire didn't have a preset gender. 


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#53
9TailsFox

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Aww nawwww it would not be just the one character or gender, you would have 3 options per gender kind of like Jade Empire only less racist towards anyone who isn't asian.

Yes this racist asian. No white or black characters in moves set in Asia. except if its antagonist form USA. :lol:



#54
9TailsFox

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Yes, I'd be fine with that. Plus the butthurt outcry would be deliciously exquisite.

Same don't care if protagonist male female asari black white blue, Wait, blue is my favorite Chiss master race. No mater who protagonist is I win outcry would be glories. :lol:

chiss4.png


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#55
Queen Skadi

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I don't think set protagonist and protagonist that is up to player (is there name for protagonist type games like ME, DA and Skyrim for example have?) are two opposites, but rather there is scale. Some games don't let almost anything be up to players like Last of Us, some have set protagonist, but allow roleplay like Witcher and some let you craft your own protagonist in varying level. There is good and bad sides in every option, but overall characters like Geralt will always have their look and their personality, that's not really up to you. Geralt will always be Geralt, when Shepard can be either John, Jane or even Dice (my Shepard) or close to anyone. Bioware has made setting of course, but that setting is somewhat loose so character will be yours.

 

Hmmmmmm, how would you feel if somebody made a mod for the Witcher 3 that introduced a character creator that allowed you to type in a name and customize the appearance of the character you see when you play the game, NOTHING ELSE ABOUT THE GAME IS CHANGED, the only thing that is changed is the character you see running around the game world, would that allow you to "roleplay" in the Witcher 3 better?


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#56
Queen Skadi

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Jade Empire didn't have a preset gender. 

 

Thats what I am sayin Buuuuuu! Its like nobody ever reads my posts.


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#57
Panda

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Hmmmmmm, how would you feel if somebody made a mod for the Witcher 3 that introduced a character creator that allowed you to type in a name and customize the appearance of the character you see when you play the game, NOTHING ELSE ABOUT THE GAME IS CHANGED, the only thing that is changed is the character you see running around the game world, would that allow you to "roleplay" in the Witcher 3 better?

 

Somewhat yes, but not in same scope as BW's games.



#58
Chardonney

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No, I absolutely do not want a preset appearance. I want my character to look the way I want her to look. Besides, it would be incredibly stupid move from BioWare to do something like that.


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#59
Il Divo

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I mean how much control over defining your character do you really want in these games? Bioware already seems to like saddling their protagonists with a past and prior family and friendships that the player care little about so they can bring it up in throw away dialogue in order to constantly remind you that you are playing their character and not your own, they also limit your actions to fall within the spectrum of the heroic type of character they want you to play, so what point does allowing us to customize the look of our character really serve?

 

I mean if you think about it having so many options in character creation (like having either short hair or short-medium hair) it makes it impossible for other characters in the world to reference our character by what they look like due to the amount of variables the writers would have to account for. Looking back to Jade Empire you will see there is only 3 appearance options for each gender (males: The big guy with the braided ponytail, the guy with the dragon tattoo and the guy with blue vest and yellow sash) which while still allowing some variation in appearance the limited choice allowed each appearance to be commented on in game.

 

For instance you might come across 2 people talking about you in public

 

Girl 1: "Omg did you see Master Li's star pupil? The one with the Dragon Tattoo? He is like, soooooooooo hawt!"

 

Girl 2: "What the guy with the scar? He is like super ugly and mean!"

 

Girl 1 "No that is Gao the Lesser who is the protagonist's rival so he is like super ugly and mean, I was talking about the protagonist who has the dragon tattoo who is super hawt and kewl, winky face"

 

Girl 2: " Oh yeah he is super hawt and kewl, I totally want to bang his brains out, winky face"

 

by limiting the options it allows the characters in the game to react to the player's characters appearance, it breaks mah immershun when all the characters in the game want to bang my character despite looking like this,

 

ugly-shepard3.jpg

 

Should Biware drop the pretense and just go with fully defined characters?

 

I don't buy it. It's not like Jade Empire was insanely reactive to character models as a general rule. The amount of reactivity we got due to preset appearances didn't outweigh the number of character model options we lost. Reactivity related to character appearances is a waste of time, in my opinion, outside of the most basic race/gender options.

 


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#60
Queen Skadi

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Somewhat yes, but not in same scope as BW's games.

 

So you would be fine with everyone calling your character "Geralt" despite typing "Miranda" in the name slot and you would have no problem with everyone refering to the character as "white haired one" despite the colour of your character's hair being orange? So long as the character you see on the screen is a woman and that you have had a hand in shaping the appearance it does not matter how the world reacts to the character or what the personality and backstory of that character is, it is still "your character"?



#61
Malleficae

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Only if protag looks like me and is basicly me. Oh wait... :|



#62
SlottsMachine

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To be honest I don't care. Its not like having more defined protagonists is suddenly going to take away the players ability to roleplay.  



#63
KaiserShep

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I don't buy it. It's not like Jade Empire was insanely reactive to character models as a general rule. The amount of reactivity we got due to preset appearances didn't outweigh the number of character model options we lost. Reactivity related to character appearances is a waste of time, in my opinion, outside of the most basic race/gender options.


This is how I feel about it. Also, I consider character creation to be a great deal of fun in and of itself. Reactivity to the character's appearance is not going to make up for taking away a feature I greatly enjoy. A pox on this whole thing, I says.
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#64
Panda

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So you would be fine with everyone calling your character "Geralt" despite typing "Miranda" in the name slot and you would have no problem with everyone refering to the character as "white haired one" despite the colour of your character's hair being orange? So long as the character you see on the screen is a woman and that you have had a hand in shaping the appearance it does not matter how the world reacts to the character or what the personality and backstory of that character is, it is still "your character"?

 

I assumed that name would carry to came as would my characters appreance in manner that they are either addressed or not mentioned. So of course that wouldn't be okay.



#65
thruaglassdarkly

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@OueenSkadi

Your point is a valid one.  If these were first person games like The Elder Scrolls, I'd be more inclined to lean your direction since I'd never see my protagonist's face anyway.  And what you are describing still captures what I think Bioware writers do a pretty good job accounting for, which is having the world react to your gender, race, and (with varying degrees of success but probably most importantly) your disposition. I actually don't mind a certain amount of character gating, and I'm increasingly inclined to side with those that want a default first name (at least until the day when software can accurately predict how a voice actor would pronounce a name).

 

All that said, I'd still prefer a game where I have control of how my character looks.  Its one of those things that keeps these games new for me.  For as much as people complain about character creator options, the times I actually create Frankenstein's monster are rare. (usually this is because I'm over thinking things).  Having at least a limited amount of control over the background, race, and look (or any one of these) (like having control over class, disposition, LIs, or who you make friends with) makes subsequent playthroughs feel new, even when the general story beats are the same.  I realize I'm part of a limited audience that prefers to play a limited number of games to death rather than a large amount of games periodically, but I'm glad there are a few titles out there that cater to this playstyle. So I'll surrender some writing limitations and few unlikely scenarios (most revolving around romance) for a little control over how my character's look, realizing there is no perfect compromise that will appeal to everyone.



#66
Just Here For Popcorns

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ugly-shepard3.jpg

269326_1154307622-we-ll-bang-ok-n.jpg



#67
AtreiyaN7

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As Sten would say: No. And Sten saying no applies to many, many threads in this forum.


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#68
In Exile

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This is how I feel about it. Also, I consider character creation to be a great deal of fun in and of itself. Reactivity to the character's appearance is not going to make up for taking away a feature I greatly enjoy. A pox on this whole thing, I says.

 

Plus. from a business POV, there's some solid evidence that giving players more ownership over the creative process makes them more attached to the product, so it just makes sense to put in CCs as often as possible. 


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#69
Lady Artifice

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Vehemently opposed. The character creator is way too much fun to play with. 


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#70
ExoGeniVI

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NO.


#71
ExoGeniVI

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Love those eyes! Is there a mod that can replicate this? 

 

"Same don't care if protagonist male female asari black white blue, Wait, blue is my favorite Chiss master race. No mater who protagonist is I win outcry would be glories. :lol:"
chiss4.png



#72
sjsharp2011

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Nope. Personality is not either, basically the character is still mine although BW gives out lines. If I compare my Shepards together they have lot of differences beyond appearance and gender. If you compare Witcher's Geralts together, well they are still always Geralt. And I don't want to play as Geralt.

indeed if yoyu want to play at Grealt you load up the witcher you want a character that feels like you've created it to play a part in a story that's what Bioware's RPG's are for. Yes they could have done better with DAI in this area in my opinion. But I do feel that this is an area that they know they were weak in in DAI and will improve this for MEA. At least I hope so



#73
sjsharp2011

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As Sten would say: No. And Sten saying no applies to many, many threads in this forum.

 

 

Indeed even the DA2 Arishok would be smart enough to say NO to this idea



#74
Rhidor

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No, because that would eliminate any replay value from the start.

 

I like to play my BioWare games at least 5 times, please.


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#75
Queen Skadi

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No, because that would eliminate any replay value from the start.

 

I like to play my BioWare games at least 5 times, please.

 

How so? How does the character creation process as it is in current Bioware games add replay value? How does the game change when you create a character with red hair as opposed to black hair?

 

As it is the system I propose would actually add replay value as opposed to eliminating them as having fewer but more unique appearances would allow for more reactivity in each playthrough depending on what appearance you choose, if we use the same amount of options as Jade Empire that is 6 unique playthroughs right there based on appearance alone!

 

Think about your arguments before you post them.