93 réponses à ce sujet

[IndianaJonesYay]

While we're talking about this issue, what exactly did TIM do to Anderson and to Shepard there just before the Catalyst scene? I get that they finally figured out how to control Reapers, but neither Anderson nor Shepard are Reapers or even indoctrinated. And what's with the little biotic pop he does with his right hand when he makes a fist right as he makes Shepard shoot Anderson? Am I missing something? 

 

Moreover, if the Catalyst knows about TIM, why does he do nothing to stop him from killing Shepard? Doesn't the Catalyst want the synthesis ending? But yet if Shepard doesn't make it to the Catalyst no synthesis. I guess you could argue that the Catalyst didn't realize synthesis was possible until right when Shepard gets lifted via the platform.

 

One more question: if the Catalyst is the Citadel (or rather, the Citadel is part of the Catalyst), why the Keepers? When you block Sovereign from calling the other Reapers at the end of ME1, if the Catalyst is in control of the Citadel (normally, we are in control of the parts that compose us), why doesn't he just override everything and call the other Reapers? For that matter, why have Sovereign at all? If the Catalyst (Citadel) is the boss of the Reapers, why would they need Saren and Sovereign in the first place? Yes, it could well be that even though the Citadel is part of the Catalyst, it still might need a third party to fire the signal to call the Reapers back, but that seems a weird and downright stupid limitation for this super-advanced AI to place on itself.

 

I'm so confused...

[fraggle]

While we're talking about this issue, what exactly did TIM do to Anderson and to Shepard there just before the Catalyst scene? I get that they finally figured out how to control Reapers, but neither Anderson nor Shepard are Reapers or even indoctrinated. And what's with the little biotic pop he does with his right hand when he makes a fist right as he makes Shepard shoot Anderson? Am I missing something?

 

We can only speculate. If I remember it right they changed a signal to directly control the Reapers (please correct me if I'm wrong), maybe that signal works on other organics as well. Maybe it's something that crawls into your brain and makes you do the things the controlling party wants. I have no clue but I assume it must be something along these parts. This also is not real indoctrination apparently, since it works instantly and not only shows its effects over some period of time. It's literally controlling someone. How? Guesses, guesses

 

Moreover, if the Catalyst knows about TIM, why does he do nothing to stop him from killing Shepard? Doesn't the Catalyst want the synthesis ending? But yet if Shepard doesn't make it to the Catalyst no synthesis. I guess you could argue that the Catalyst didn't realize synthesis was possible until right when Shepard gets lifted via the platform.

 

I have the theory the Catalyst does not know yet that Synthesis will be available. The Crucible has not docked yet during that scene, and the Reapers are still attacking it because it's a threat to them. I think that Synthesis is only a byproduct of the energy of the Crucible. An energy that is actually sufficient enough to set the Synthesis plans in motion, along with Shepard's willingness or readiness for it or whatever you want to call it. It's of course nothing that is stated in the game, but that was my idea I took away from a discussion with someone a while back (I first thought Synthesis might be an option directly coming with the Crucible as well).

 

One more question: if the Catalyst is the Citadel (or rather, the Citadel is part of the Catalyst), why the Keepers? When you block Sovereign from calling the other Reapers at the end of ME1, if the Catalyst is in control of the Citadel (normally, we are in control of the parts that compose us), why doesn't he just override everything and call the other Reapers? For that matter, why have Sovereign at all? If the Catalyst (Citadel) is the boss of the Reapers, why would they need Saren and Sovereign in the first place? Yes, it could well be that even though the Citadel is part of the Catalyst, it still might need a third party to fire the signal to call the Reapers back, but that seems a weird and downright stupid limitation for this super-advanced AI to place on itself.

 

Heh. The answer you will probably get most for this is: they didn't know they'd have the Catalyst as the Citadel back in ME1. And it's true.

But some people are still trying to make sense of it or see how the pieces could fit. Some cool ideas around, like the Catalyst hibernating because it also has to preserve energy during the long cycle time.

My two ideas were: it simply couldn't do anything because of what the Protheans did, or it did not want to give itself away. For the second, I am not entirely believing this anymore, but I thought that since it was never really discovered before, its desire must be to stay hidden. It knows it has the upper hand because most civilizations are caught by surprise anyway, and if the Reapers have to travel normally, like in our cycle, they still have the upper hand and would've harvested us easily... until the Crucible

Some people said it wouldn't make much sense, and I guess there are better options, but it was an idea.

[AlanC9]

There's no evidence at all about what happened on the Citadel. The Conduit was one-way only, so Vigil didn't know anything, and if the prothean scientists had been able to leave a message there'd be no plot. All we know is that the scientists reached the Citadel, the scientists did something, and then the Citadel relay didn't open. Having the Catalyst on the Citadel doesn't change anything abut this; we've already accepted that the scientists were able to reprogram the maintenance force on the Citadel in a way that the Reapers could not detect, so if they ended up having to do anything else on the Citadel, the Reapers couldn't have undone it or even detected it.

Of course, this requires the Catalyst to have been incredibly lax about internal security, but pre-ME3 it was Sovereign being lax about security. He had, what, 48,000 years to check out the Citadel's systems before the asari showed up?

[Monica21]

One more question: if the Catalyst is the Citadel (or rather, the Citadel is part of the Catalyst), why the Keepers? When you block Sovereign from calling the other Reapers at the end of ME1, if the Catalyst is in control of the Citadel (normally, we are in control of the parts that compose us), why doesn't he just override everything and call the other Reapers? For that matter, why have Sovereign at all? If the Catalyst (Citadel) is the boss of the Reapers, why would they need Saren and Sovereign in the first place? Yes, it could well be that even though the Citadel is part of the Catalyst, it still might need a third party to fire the signal to call the Reapers back, but that seems a weird and downright stupid limitation for this super-advanced AI to place on itself.

 

I'm so confused...

 

I say that the Reapers, and more specifically the Catalyst, just aren't all that smart or as sentient as they'd like to have us believe. Maybe the Catalyst has some kind of Sleep function when it's not harvest time. If it is awake however, then no, it does nothing when the Prothean scientists are on board. It does nothing when Sovereign is banging on the front door. It does nothing until Shepard arrives. They are still following the same program they decided upon hundreds of millions of years ago.

[themikefest]

While we're talking about this issue, what exactly did TIM do to Anderson and to Shepard there just before the Catalyst scene? I get that they finally figured out how to control Reapers, but neither Anderson nor Shepard are Reapers or even indoctrinated. And what's with the little biotic pop he does with his right hand when he makes a fist right as he makes Shepard shoot Anderson? Am I missing something?

I can believe TIM controlling Shepard through his/her parts that were used to bring Shepard back to life. That's the only explanation I have for TIM being able to control Shepard. I can't explain Anderson.

When Shepard sees Anderson at the console, Anderson is already under TIM's control, but Shepard isn't until TIM shows up. I guess that Anderson was at the console for 15-20 seconds before Shepard calls his name.

The fist pump thing. I don't know. Maybe he saw Jacob do the fist pump thing on the hospital when he said 'then we'll win this thing. I feel it' haha

There was no reason for the fist pump thing. TIM already proved his point. He had both under control. Having Anderson shot was overkill.
 

Moreover, if the Catalyst knows about TIM, why does he do nothing to stop him from killing Shepard? Doesn't the Catalyst want the synthesis ending? But yet if Shepard doesn't make it to the Catalyst no synthesis. I guess you could argue that the Catalyst didn't realize synthesis was possible until right when Shepard gets lifted via the platform.

At that point the Crucible is not attached to the Citadel until after TIM is dead. And once the Crucible is attached, the thing would not know about synthesis if ems is too low

[Dantriges]

The one explanation I heard that makes some sense is that the Catalyst as the collective intelligence of the Reapers isn´t on the Citadel or hibernating in ME 1, because the Reapers aren´t there. It awakes/forms when the Reapers are in network range.

[dorktainian]

this is the part where I step in and state Indoctrination Theory answers all questions in regards to the ending.  

 

http://www.forbes.co...veryones-heads/

[Ieldra]

this is the part where I step in and state Indoctrination Theory answers all questions in regards to the ending.  

 

http://www.forbes.co...veryones-heads/

That article is from March 21, 2012, predating any DLC, and since this supposed "real ending" never came, everyone can rest assured that the ME team weren't the "geniuses" the ITists would make us believe, but that they really screwed up. 

 

But why do I even answer this? IT is a closed system fueled by people's belief in their own superiority.  

[Tim van Beek]

We can only speculate. If I remember it right they changed a signal to directly control the Reapers (please correct me if I'm wrong), maybe that signal works on other organics as well. Maybe it's something that crawls into your brain and makes you do the things the controlling party wants. I have no clue but I assume it must be something along these parts. This also is not real indoctrination apparently, since it works instantly and not only shows its effects over some period of time. It's literally controlling someone. How? Guesses, guesses

While there is no established mechanism in the game that explains this, we can certainly make one up and fill another of the, ah, 80 or so plot holes in the ending. But we have to be careful: The power that TIM uses in this scene is overwhelming. If Reapers actually could use this kind of power (as TIM himself claims), organics would never ever stand any chance of fighting them. 

 

So, we'd have to come up with a solution where this power somehow fits into the ME universe, only TIM can use it, only in his last stage of his transformation, and he still uses this completely unknown effect to illustrate the power of the Reapers without surprising Shep or Andy in any way.

 

Hm.

 

TIM has designed a special biotic implant (biotics fit better than indoctriantion) improved with Reaper tech, it is a prototype and was implanted right before he set off to the citadel. The Reapers never developed this kind of technology, because obviously they don't do science. No one else every developed the technology in the current cycle, because TIM is a genius. The fist is just one of the moves that biotics do when they apply their power. Neither Shep nor Andy was surprised or curious, because that one is far from being the weirdest thing that they experienced during the minutes before that scene.

[AlanC9]

 
But why do I even answer this? IT is a closed system fueled by people's belief in their own superiority.

Because it's fun?

[AlanC9]

So, we'd have to come up with a solution where this power somehow fits into the ME universe, only TIM can use it, only in his last stage of his transformation, and he still uses this completely unknown effect to illustrate the power of the Reapers without surprising Shep or Andy in any way.

Do they really need to not be surprised? They don't talk about being surprised, but there's other stuff to talk about that's a bit more important than where TIM picked up his latest trick.

[AlanC9]

Since we were talking about themes the other day, I thought it'd be interesting to post a fragment of the leaked script outline, which shows how Bio approaches this stuff. Oddly, themes are only discussed for the N7 missions; my bet is that this is an artifact of the development process, with N7s being written later than the rest. Regrettably, this means that even if there once was something about overall themes written it wouldn't have remained in the document by this point.
 

Narrative Razor
Protect the innocent.
Narrative Synopsis:
Cerberus has overrun the slums and the civilians are pinned down and being wiped out. N7 can't get a foothold to enable a full-scale evacuation. Shepard has been called in to change that.
He syncs up with the ground team on the outskirts of the occupied area and learns that there are pockets of civilians hiding for their lives throughout the area. He also learns that there are a few Cerberus Atlases stationed throughout but currently powered down.
So the Player acquires the Atlas command codes then jumps into each of them to light up different Cerberus positions and allow the people the chance to flee. He does this in three areas, saving hundreds and giving the N7 forces the foothold they need to continue to help evacuate the masses.
Gameplay Razors
Gameplay Theme: RESCUE
Reference: Randall "Tex" Cobb's last stand at the end of Uncommon Valor
Gameplay Razor: Be an Atlas! Blow through entrenched enemy positions.

As we can see, the mission we actually got was a bit different.

There's also an extant design outline for the NWN1 OC which does show overall thematic progression in a way that this document does not. As originally designed the NWN OC was a highly-linear campaign. Later in development that design was thrown out so players could experience the content in an order they chose. This would have made a hash of the proposed progression, so most of that material was cut. I sometimes wonder if this lingers in Bio's institutional memory.

[dorktainian]

Because it's fun?

and it makes an attempt to justify the car crash of an ending that was mass effect 3, and pretty much suceeds in every way.

[Tim van Beek]

Do they really need to not be surprised? They don't talk about being surprised, but there's other stuff to talk about that's a bit more important than where TIM picked up his latest trick.

No, you're probably right. There would be two reasons to have them act surprised.

 

First, every realistic character would be, but the ME characters are action movie characters, emotionally detached from their situation and never truly surprised or shocked by anything (compared to real people, that is).

 

The second reason would be to have Shep or Andy act as "the Watson" (http://tvtropes.org/.../Main/TheWatson), 

 

 

 

The Watson is the character whose job it is to ask the same questions the audience must be asking and let other characters explain what's going on.

 

And while that scene obviously needs a lot of exposition to become intelligible, it cannot be repaired by adding said exposition (doing that would be doing an EC-thingy to that scene). It needs to be repaired in a way that removes that need.

 

Maybe one should remove the whole "magic reaper power demonstration" (we already know that the reapers are powerful) and have a simple Mexican standoff, with Andy and Shep wounded and ill equipped.

 

[fraggle]

No, you're probably right. There would be two reasons to have them act surprised.

 

First, every realistic character would be, but the ME characters are action movie characters, emotionally detached from their situation and never truly surprised or shocked by anything (compared to real people, that is).

 

Shepard already knows that TIM is on a control trip. Shepard's seen what he, or rather Henry Lawson has achieved on Sanctuary.

 

And at least to me Shepard looked surprised when shooting Anderson.

Though I guess we could also argue, all the sh*t that has happened already, all the weird and dangerous situations Shepard was in so far makes them a bit resistent to being surprised at anything anymore by the end

[dorktainian]

It's a pretty simple comparison.

 

Saren favoured Synthesis.

TIM favoured Control.

Anderson Favoured Destroy.

 

Oh wait.. I've just made a case for refusal.

[Dantriges]

Perhaps they thought it is a modified kind of stasis field or it actually is some kind of dominate biotic power. It´s a setting where it´s not unheard of, that people get moved, thrown around, reaved, immobilised or even dominated by biotics on the battlefield and both are N7, where meeting enemy biotics is more common. They were probably trained to keep their cool and not panic. 

[Tim van Beek]

Though I guess we could also argue, all the sh*t that has happened already, all the weird and dangerous situations Shepard was in so far makes them a bit resistent to being surprised at anything anymore by the end

I know I know, I wrote that myself already 

 

IMHO, many action movies would profit from a more emotional reaction of the protagonists to the danger that they face. Surprise, fear, turning into resolve etc. I'm quite surprised again and again at how many characters jump right into mortal danger like a gunfight without giving a s***, neither before, during or after the situation (maybe they read the script and already know that nothing bad will happen to them).

 

Well, nevermind, obviously that's a trope of the genre, ME included. But if you have a sequence of bizarre and highly surprising events, and your character acts as if they were completely expected, that's still too much, even for an action movie. That Shep is not at all surprised to find out that Anderson or TIM are on the citadel, or that TIM is visibly deformed and has some weird powers, just pushed the whole sequence further into surrealism for me.

 

Association: Kubrick's "The Shining", Jack's reaction to the presence of a bartender as if that was to be expected, https://www.youtube....h?v=HJVVGzEbJC0, is used with great effect to illustrate Jack's psychotic loss of his sense of reality.

 

That's three brownie points for IT 

[fraggle]

IMHO, many action movies would profit from a more emotional reaction of the protagonists to the danger that they face. Surprise, fear, turning into resolve etc. I'm quite surprised again and again at how many characters jump right into mortal danger like a gunfight without giving a s***, neither before, during or after the situation (maybe they read the script and already know that nothing bad will happen to them).

Well, nevermind, obviously that's a trope of the genre, ME included.

 

I agree, it's why I usually avoid watching action movies, and I dislike most of the action sequences in ME too. Because it depicts the protagonist as this ultimate badass, fearless, not a worry, no matter how ridiculous these scenes are, Shepard escapes without a scratch (it might be one of the reasons why I was so in favor of the end scene, I was totally surprised to see my Shepard so broken, and I kinda liked it that for once, he/she's not an unstoppable force).

I mean, it's fine, I can get that this is a fantasy to have a hero who is untouchable, and people do not anticipate that something happens to them, and I can live with that.

For ME though at least, we have some options for our Shepard to show reaction built around these action scenes. The FOB scene comes into mind. Kaidan asks if you're scared, you can say yes (not without saying something badass though, too ), and I think there are more instances like this. So that's at least something for me.

 

But if you have a sequence of bizarre and highly surprising events, and your character acts as if they were completely expected, that's still too much, even for an action movie. That Shep is not at all surprised to find out that Anderson or TIM are on the citadel, or that TIM is visibly deformed and has some weird powers, just pushed the whole sequence further into surrealism for me.

 

For this though, Shepard already learned on Cronos that TIM implanted himself with Reaper tech (it's in one of the videos you can watch if I'm not mistaken), so this is no surprise at all. And Vendetta also told us that TIM fled to the Citadel.

Not surprised about Anderson being there... I don't know. I mean, it was the goal to get a handful of soldiers up the beam, Anderson included. Plus Shepard previously just took a very bad hit, maybe that also makes him/her a bit in a too weird place to show anything when Anderson contacts him/her.

[AlanC9]

Perhaps they thought it is a modified kind of stasis field or it actually is some kind of dominate biotic power.

If Shepard can have Dominate, why not TIM?

[MrFob]

I know I know, I wrote that myself already 

 

IMHO, many action movies would profit from a more emotional reaction of the protagonists to the danger that they face. Surprise, fear, turning into resolve etc. I'm quite surprised again and again at how many characters jump right into mortal danger like a gunfight without giving a s***, neither before, during or after the situation (maybe they read the script and already know that nothing bad will happen to them).

 

I think this is why I really like the Joker scene in ME2. Of course, it was mainly meant to be funny but this is about the first time that Joker is in the action first hand (ship to ship battles don't really count as he is still very far removed from direct contact with the enemy, so it's a very different scenario). He's unarmed, stands no chance if attacked directly and when he goes "What the sh*t?" all the time it's perfectly appropriate.

 

If the next ME game has a less trained protagonist than Shepard, I'd like to a similar reaction at least in the early game. I think the Uncharted series does a pretty good job of conveying more believable reaction. Of course, Nathan Drake is still a total badass and the series is chock full of cheesy one liners but at least he often just completely looses it and goes "What the heck is happening to me?", not just in the most dramatic situations but also at little stuff like when you make a tough jump or something like that (Nolan North's superb voice acting of course does a lot to make this more believable as well).

Given that these are video games and that the primary game mechanic is combat, it is unavoidable that we mow down hordes of enemies over the course of the game but I think it would be a good idea to at least acknowledge that this is not normal, not in the universe and not for the characters. Even if it creates a bit of a disconnect between the story and gameplay, I am ok with it (just don't take it quite as far as the Tomb Raider reboot and it'll be fine).

[IndianaJonesYay]

I want to take the thread back to Ieldra's very astute remark about how an ending needs to be emotionally okay for the audience (not necessarily happy, but fitting and okay).

 

It occurs to me that the Citadel DLC has no small number of plot holes and irregularities (like the ending), but we don't have thread after thread dissecting those (unlike the ending). For instance, are we really supposed to buy that Wrex is already asking the Council for expansion planets? That Shepard would be okay with some R&R when the Reapers are advancing across the galaxy? That Tali and/or Liara are able to party when their planets are in peril (depending on when you throw the party)? That Shepard would play fetch with Eezo the varren with a frying pan? Or that varren can have biotic powers? Or that neither Shepard nor Joker would ask Brooks for identification when she seems like a mess and appears thirty seconds after they realize somebody faked their emails to get them to the sushi joint? 

 

The Citadel DLC doesn't really "fit" plotwise into the game, but nobody complains about it... because it's so doggone satisfying! Whether it's Uncle Urdnot bringing presents for the princesses, or the crew lined up at the top of the ladder shooting 48 times when one will do (Wrex's line), or EDI's eyes going crossed when she's your squadmate in the shuttle on the way to the Normandy, or Shepard's repeated "I should go. *I* should go. I should go" lines... the Citadel works. For almost every player, it gives emotional satisfaction and even downright joy, and for the most part, we overlook all the plot holes because of how darn good the Citadel is.

 

The ending? Not so much.

 

I'm not trying to complain. I'm trying to support Iedra's claim that a writer ought to try to give an "okay" ending or component to his or her stories; even if there are plot holes (really? A toothbrush somehow picking a lock? And when did all those crates and other cover get set up in the CIC?), they can be forgiven and overlooked easily if they produce emotional or cathartic resolution. And the Citadel, by and large, does.

[fraggle]

It occurs to me that the Citadel DLC has no small number of plot holes and irregularities (like the ending), but we don't have thread after thread dissecting those (unlike the ending). For instance, are we really supposed to buy that Wrex is already asking the Council for expansion planets? That Shepard would be okay with some R&R when the Reapers are advancing across the galaxy? That Tali and/or Liara are able to party when their planets are in peril (depending on when you throw the party)? That Shepard would play fetch with Eezo the varren with a frying pan? Or that varren can have biotic powers? Or that neither Shepard nor Joker would ask Brooks for identification when she seems like a mess and appears thirty seconds after they realize somebody faked their emails to get them to the sushi joint?

 

Haha, you have got some points here! Especially with neither Joker nor Shepard getting it they were both lured there by someone, and suddenly someone approaches them with an emergency. But... she fooled me too! I found it funny, because as soon as the action starts, I actually forgot that they both were lured there, weird how this sometimes works. And Brooks was really playing her role well. I'm sure there were some suspicious people, but I never was, she really got me, that b*tch

As for the R&R and everyone having a good time... I had to find a way justifying it for my last Shepard because she was the mission first type, but then I kept that DLC until before the Cerberus HQs and said to myself it can only be a positive thing if the Normandy is in a top shape, as well as the crew, because after Cronos, there's no way back. So they can let go of a bit of emotional stuff, lose their sh*t and all. Sometimes, things like these help you cope with the bad things in life, you even downright forget about it because you're distracted by some good things. Escaping reality, I'm sure I'm not the only one knowing it

 

The Citadel DLC doesn't really "fit" plotwise into the game, but nobody complains about it... because it's so doggone satisfying! Whether it's Uncle Urdnot bringing presents for the princesses, or the crew lined up at the top of the ladder shooting 48 times when one will do (Wrex's line), or EDI's eyes going crossed when she's your squadmate in the shuttle on the way to the Normandy, or Shepard's repeated "I should go. *I* should go. I should go" lines... the Citadel works. For almost every player, it gives emotional satisfaction and even downright joy, and for the most part, we overlook all the plot holes because of how darn good the Citadel is.

 

This is likely true, and it just really shows a bit more that people look for a more positive emotion I'd guess. I've also heard countless times that while the DLC can't be taken serious (which is true, because as you say, it absolutely doesn't fit with the plot and is just blatant fan service), it's fun. The question is if people would've really liked something similar for their end, but could be

 

The ending? Not so much.

 

I'm not trying to complain. I'm trying to support Iedra's claim that a writer ought to try to give an "okay" ending or component to his or her stories; even if there are plot holes (really? A toothbrush somehow picking a lock? And when did all those crates and other cover get set up in the CIC?), they can be forgiven and overlooked easily if they produce emotional or cathartic resolution. And the Citadel, by and large, does.

 

It is interesting that even for me, as someone who liked the ending a lot, Citadel DLC was truly getting me back to happiness (ok, its ending not so much, but overall it's just a lot of fun). I only played it after seeing the original ending, and it was exactly what I needed

I guess it's just really like you say, if you have a great time with your crew, then this likely just works for most.

I wonder now if things would've turned out different would Shepard not have gone alone up there and had some support, like you mentioned before. Guess we'll never know, but I'm sure squadmates' different comments, some maybe rejecting the Catalyst right away, would've made people more satisfied. Maybe.

It could've still been the same outcome, but maybe with the squadmates around, it would've made the situation less crappy for some. Not that I complain, as I liked what we got, but you know... for some folks this might've worked, too. I think it's especially true when we look at Dragon Age... Inquisition's ending was an "okay" one for me, but many people really liked it, because it was a positive ending. I think it's likely we'll get something like this with the next ME as well, especially after the whole backlash, so I'm prepared for a more "good" ending this time. Ideally we could get different outcomes, I'd really love that. But let's see. It will certainly be interesting how they tackle the ending this time

[Tim van Beek]

I want to take the thread back to Ieldra's very astute remark about how an ending needs to be emotionally okay for the audience (not necessarily happy, but fitting and okay).

...

The Citadel DLC doesn't really "fit" plotwise into the game, but nobody complains about it... because it's so doggone satisfying! 

Sure, very valid point. To be fair, every single review (about 10?) I read of the Citadel DLC said that the premise and story are something between campy and outrageous, so it has been noted, but has not received much complaining. That it is not the end of a franchise long storyline may be another factor  .

Another one is that the communication between writers and players just works. You know that things are not too serious when you read the emails on your AAA account, or when you can choose "I say much cooler things" as a dialogue option. Still, the writers never break the fourth wall, they never wink directly at the players, they stay mostly true to the characters and franchise, and no one would come up with something like IT here because things just got too surreal compared to the rest of game.

 

 

And Vendetta also told us that TIM fled to the Citadel.

It does? Must have missed that, that certainly changes things 

(As a executive producer I would still point out that this is not well "planted", as writers call it, because many people will miss this detail in the conversation. Well, we know one did.)

 

 

I think this is why I really like the Joker scene in ME2. 

That's a great scene    

One great aspect is that players get to play a character that is not a badass and is truly scared by the collectors. It really reinforced my understanding of the "badassiness" of Shep when I thought "Shep would defeat that thing coming up in the elevator, already has".

 

Can't say much about the other franchises you mentioned, because I don't know them. To mention another, one aspect that lends credibility to the realism of "The Wire" is that both cops and criminals don't want to get shot, there aren't many shootouts, and when one happens all characters recognize them as the catastophy that they are in reality.

 

Well, ME is an action movie, and when the Reaper on Tuchanka destroys the bridge with its laser beam, Shep says "consider that target practice!". I think that's appropriate for the genre.

 

Given that these are video games and that the primary game mechanic is combat, it is unavoidable that we mow down hordes of enemies over the course of the game but I think it would be a good idea to at least acknowledge that this is not normal, not in the universe and not for the characters. Even if it creates a bit of a disconnect between the story and gameplay, I am ok with it (just don't take it quite as far as the Tomb Raider reboot and it'll be fine).

Oh, I don't know. That's very close to breaking the fourth wall, when in a shooter my enemy reminds me or my character that we have killed, too. In the Baldur's Gate saga, people kept telling my character about how he/she sowed chaos and destruction, and that's pretty much as far as I am willing to follow, as a player.

 

That's the chance to mention another game: "Spec Ops: The Line". Sorry, but the shooter genre cannot, as a medium, transport a message about how killing is brutal. It breaks the bounds of the medium and the genre, because they are just not suited for self-reflection. 

[themikefest]

The Citadel DLC doesn't really "fit" plotwise into the game,

I would've preferred a crucible dlc that explains its origins
 

but nobody complains about it...

My biggest complaint about the dlc is why couldn't Steve, Samantha, Miranda and Jack escort Shepard during the casino mission?

Another complaint is why is Wrex made a squadmate, but none of the ME2 squadmates are not?