69 réponses à ce sujet

[Evelynne]

This is more a letter to the Devs than a discussion but I can't stop anyone who wants to contribute or debate.

 

 

I'm going to be honest. I can't play Dragon Age Inquisition without mods. Fade-Touched Loot, Loot Animation Remover, No Wait War Table, Recliffe Shop (Standard Edition), and that All Schematics and Collectables Saved Game.

 

Why do I have all of this? Because it takes a game that felt like a chore, and makes it into one of my favorite BioWare titles to date (KOTOR still holds #1 sadly). 

 

I know I heard a lot of comparisons to Skyrim when this game was coming up -- and to be frank I do enjoy it more than I enjoy Skyrim these days. 

 

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut

 

There's a lot of work that needs to go into the next title before I put down my Bethesda Poster.

 

The primary target of that work needing done is the removal of all the needless padding -- Looting, Absurdly Low Drop Rates, the requirement to Save Scum in order to get access to everything, and worst of all, the War Table.

 

Removing the Mount would also go quite a way to getting it better -- or letting us loot and fight from it. The only time I ever jump on my horse is when I need my party not to go ham and attack something we're running past -- like the Valley before the Fereldan Frostback High Dragon.

 

The Looting animation, is a first in a Dragon Age game, and it feels WEIRD. It feels WRONG, and worst of all, it eats the time up I could be spent playing or inside a conversation. It takes a little over two seconds for the character to complete the animation and open the Loot Bag. With the mod that removes the animation the game works just fine -- which tells me this was added to Pad time out in the game. Its already a 20 hour game, and that's just chasing the Main Storyline and necessary side quests. I've got almost 300 hours in the game and I only this morning beat the game. You didn't need to force me to spend time in the game, you can do that already.

 

Absurdly Low Drop Rates is acceptable -- if it wasn't necessary. But Fade-Touched Mats, are necessary, especially to a Power or Solo gamer. Spending time scumming loot drops for one Fade-Touched material is not how I'd like to spend my time in this game. I want to spend more time in the crafting menu, figuring out what will best suit my build. Not using my face for a Logging Axe, just chopping away at my sacrifice to RNGesus. 

 

This is a part of the above -- Schematics need to be fixed locations, not random chance. This just adds even more time to the game, and if you wanted to 100% the game, Save Scumming was something you were going to have to get used to.

 

Last but not least, the worst offender is the War Table. This right here, is what really made me put the game down until it was done being produced for, so I could Mod it out of Existence and actually remember the choices I made on that table instead of just looking at whatever Agent could handle it the fastest or with the best reward. Removing the time requirement was what actually got me using the War Table. 

 

The reason for all of this is that the Open World game is already essentially a Time sink. We're here to spend time in the world, and the more time we have spend waiting around, the less palatable the 'busy work' (as Critics put it) becomes. Give us our oysters, we're at a restaurant, not waist deep in the ocean.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Evelynne

[Nefla]

BioWare's "open world" wasn't fun to me, especially compared to Bethesda's. I like Skyrim's combat, non-combat skills such as stealth, lockpicking, etc...I like being able to kill whoever I want and pick up or move around almost any random thing (that a person could reasonably pick up) in the world. I like being able to kill enemies much stronger than I am through the use of magical traps, arrows, summons, and so on rather than not being able to damage them at all. I like having a ton of NPCs scattered around the world who each have their own routine and who all react to danger or theft or a dead body.

 

Fans of DA:I don't believe me when I say that aside from companion recruitment and personal quests (not the boring stuff like "one less venatori") nothing out in the zones interested me or was fun for me but it's absolutely true. What's the point of exploration if you hate the combat and there's nothing of worth to find? For me DA:I's maps are like a super hot bimbo. Beautiful to look at but nothing else going on.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

"How to make the next open world game better"
Don't make an open world game.

[Precursor Meta]

Maybe if they made it more dense and packed with things to do, see, and find. I know one of the things I really liked about Skyrim was not just what you found, but what also found you.

 

 

I'll never forget the time a Dark Brother Hood assassin tried to sneak up behind me and assassinate me. Then when I killed him and looted his body, I was shocked to find the contract detailing my name and why I should be put to rest.

 

Now DA doesn't have to do exactly that, but I'm sure you get my point.

[Samahl na Revas]

Most of the things you mention are intrinsically tied to the crafting system which was a first time for Bioware.

 

Crafting potion necessitated a fairly believable loot animation, I agree that it was too long. Schematics shouldn't of been random because there was minor variance between same tier armors. Fade touch materials were a pain to gather, more unfortunate for console gamers like myself because I play on PS4.

 

I think the proper idea for this topic is that the crafting system and what it entails needs to be tweaked.

 

As for making open world better, just give me other stuff to do within the world. For example what is wicked grace and can I play the game. Open the world up so it is a bit believable that my avatar is actually experiencing this part of Thedas and not miles of sand.

 

I hope the next DA is a smaller open world. Forget Weisshaupt, make it a dlc if what is happening there is so important. Tevinter.

 

Don't misinterpret and screw the next DA game up, locked areas are not a bad thing as long as unlocking them advances the plot instead of a place to visit put down flags and build camps  nor do they need to be expansive since DA still works of the multiple module system.

 

Lastly, I like the world map, I just did not like the time system associated with unlocking rewards and content. The world map is a text based mini game. Omg had the player been required to do certain things on the world map before unlocking an area and have those choices slightly alter the players setting, omg. Witcher has nothing on this.

[Phoe77]

The one thing that sticks out in my mind as important to improve the exploration aspect of the game is the inclusion of more in depth storylines unique to specific zones.  Things like disrupting the Venatori activity in the Hissing Wastes or the Western Approach were great, and it would be nice if there was more of that to be found in each zone.  It wouldn't even necessarily have to be a sequence of multiple quests.  A single sidequest with a decently robust story that carries you to multiple locations in a zone would be great.

[Arshei]

"How to make the next open world game better"
Don't make an open world game.

 

Why?

Just because some people has a potato pc?

The open world is the best in the world, i hate the loading screen, they give me time to think about my life, and i don't like that!

[ShadyKat]

"How to make the next open world game better"
Don't make an open world game.

This.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Why?

Just because some people has a potato pc?

The open world is the best in the world, i hate the loading screen, they give me time to think about my life, and i don't like that!

Because not every game needs to be an open world game.
And how did you not have loading screens? You still...loaded into the zone?
Don't think I've glossed over "potato pc" we are a kingdom of sentient beings and we demand respect.

[Al Foley]

And for the millionth time I do not know why people torture themselves when they play these games and pad their own time doing things that they do not consider fun.  Save scumming for fade touched materials?  Farming for top tier schematics? Heck in this case even the looting itself?  If it bothers you this much.  Don't do it.  When it comes to either game of this generation, Witcher 3 or DA I, if I did not enjoy doing it.  I stopped doing it.  Or came back to it later when I could actually spend the time to do it.  Like with the shards.  But do you need every single schematic in the game?  No.  I bought the schematics I wanted and found a few through looting I wanted, crafted them up, and then went back to the questing I wanted to do.  And as for the Fade materials I had more then enough to make my character's work.  Did I get all the ones I wanted?  No.  Through two and a half playthroughs I have never seen a single instance of Fade Touched Snouefleur skin...but again I am not going to waste time looking for them.  And if I do its my fault, and if I do I rapidly figure out I am wasting time and move onto something a lot more enjoyable.  

 

As far as the war table is concerned it was one of my favorite additions to the game.  Sure, you have a hard time remembering your decisions.  But then that could apply just as easily to the base game itself. 

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

And for the millionth time I do not know why people torture themselves when they play these games and pad their own time doing things that they do not consider fun.  Save scumming for fade touched materials?  Farming for top tier schematics? Heck in this case even the looting itself?  If it bothers you this much.  Don't do it.  When it comes to either game of this generation, Witcher 3 or DA I, if I did not enjoy doing it.  I stopped doing it.  Or came back to it later when I could actually spend the time to do it.  Like with the shards.  But do you need every single schematic in the game?  No.  I bought the schematics I wanted and found a few through looting I wanted, crafted them up, and then went back to the questing I wanted to do.  And as for the Fade materials I had more then enough to make my character's work.  Did I get all the ones I wanted?  No.  Through two and a half playthroughs I have never seen a single instance of Fade Touched Snouefleur skin...but again I am not going to waste time looking for them.  And if I do its my fault, and if I do I rapidly figure out I am wasting time and move onto something a lot more enjoyable.  

 

As far as the war table is concerned it was one of my favorite additions to the game.  Sure, you have a hard time remembering your decisions.  But then that could apply just as easily to the base game itself. 

Because we bought a bad game and wana try and get our monies worth?

Edit: I mean the entire open world leaves us with few options. Either we A: do some irrelevant inane fetch quest to level up or B: we grind.
If one of those is fun then by all means but the game is filled to the brim with a distinct lack of fun.

[Al Foley]

Because we bought a bad game and wana try and get our monies worth?

Playthrough 1 was a very enjoyable 82 hours for me without doing any of what the OP listed.  Playthrough 2 was a VERY enjoyable 113 hours (ish) by doing almost none of what the OP suggested or I would consider unenjoyable.  I kinda forced the Shards on my character but the loot rewards and the Temple of Solassan was actually kinda worth it.  

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Playthrough 1 was a very enjoyable 82 hours for me without doing any of what the OP listed.  Playthrough 2 was a VERY enjoyable 113 hours (ish) by doing almost none of what the OP suggested or I would consider unenjoyable.  I kinda forced the Shards on my character but the loot rewards and the Temple of Solassan was actually kinda worth it.  

My first playthrough was fine.
My second isn't finished and I've yet to finish a third. The game is just...not fun. After skyhold I have to force myself to finish.

[Majestic Jazz]

And for the millionth time I do not know why people torture themselves when they play these games and pad their own time doing things that they do not consider fun.  Save scumming for fade touched materials?  Farming for top tier schematics? Heck in this case even the looting itself?  If it bothers you this much.  Don't do it.  When it comes to either game of this generation, Witcher 3 or DA I, if I did not enjoy doing it.  I stopped doing it.  Or came back to it later when I could actually spend the time to do it.  Like with the shards.  But do you need every single schematic in the game?  No.  I bought the schematics I wanted and found a few through looting I wanted, crafted them up, and then went back to the questing I wanted to do.  And as for the Fade materials I had more then enough to make my character's work.  Did I get all the ones I wanted?  No.  Through two and a half playthroughs I have never seen a single instance of Fade Touched Snouefleur skin...but again I am not going to waste time looking for them.  And if I do its my fault, and if I do I rapidly figure out I am wasting time and move onto something a lot more enjoyable.  

 

As far as the war table is concerned it was one of my favorite additions to the game.  Sure, you have a hard time remembering your decisions.  But then that could apply just as easily to the base game itself. 

 

So Bioware cannot improve on anything regarding the open world with their future titles?

 

This isn't a bash DAI thread but something to discuss how to make the next game better. Why does this make you bitter? You love the game and consider it the best DA and probably best Bioware game....great. But not everyone shares your same optimism for DAI and they hope that DA4 does many things better that they believe DAI fell flat on.

[Al Foley]

So Bioware cannot improve on anything regarding the open world with their future titles?

 

This isn't a bash DAI thread but something to discuss how to make the next game better. Why does this make you bitter?

Who said I am bitter?  Believe me I know when I make bitter posts about politics or this game when I am having a moment of weakness, this isn't one of them.  I just cannot fathom why people go out of their way to intentionally torture themselves in these games.  I mean I am one to talk because sometimes, while I do move on and quit doing something I am not enjoying eventually...sometimes I am stubbourn and it takes me a while.  This has happened in both DA I and Witcher 3...mainly the latter.  

 

And don't get me wrong I would love to see the Open World improve for DA 4.  I wrote a thread where I discussed the improvements I want to see.  I can even accept that the 'loot drop rate' is too low and we should get more and better loot.  But the whole crux of this is...for me anyways...DA I is filled to the brim with amazing content.  One only has to ignore the stuff that annoys them, and do the stuff which is fun.  

[Marshal Moriarty]

I'll just echo the sentiment already expressed. The best way for them to do a Dragon Age open world is to not do one at all, because they the series doesn't need to be that, Bioware games in general don't need to be that, and if this game is any evidence to go by, Bioware are spectacularly bad at making such things anyway.

 

Trying to make it open world just called into sharp focus how much better other developers are at this. Bioware games are narrative heavy (or at least they used to be!), and profited from tight direction and focused storytelling. This game has none of that, trading all the things that made Bioware games great for a shoddy open world boreathon that bludgeoned the hapless fans into stupefaction, fans who tried so hard to love it after they waited 4 years for it.

 

It was a dreadful idea and direction for the series, and the woeful execution may actually work to the series' long term benefit. Resident Evil went off the rails when RE4 changed what the series originally was, into something very different. The thing is, the corrosive changes and disastrous consequences for the series were somewhat disguised there by RE4 being a genuinely inspired, once in a generation kind of game. The magic dust that turns any product from something good into something wonderful happened to fall on thar product, and masked the fact that if the series continued down this path, then anything less than a perfect game would result in something awful that was completely toxic to the fans of the series and in no way gave them what they wanted.

 

Inqusition is certainly no RE4, and we should be thankful for that. Because in all its failure, we can (please God let;s pray that Bioware do) see that this was the wrong way to go with the series and it just doesn't work!

[Al Foley]

Skyrim was actually the perfect example for me in both how bad I am at following my own advice sometimes and though my willingness to quit.  Put nearly 200 hours into that game across two uncompleted playthroughs.  It was torture for me, so I stopped playing and moved back onto ME. 

[Majestic Jazz]

Who said I am bitter? Believe me I know when I make bitter posts about politics or this game when I am having a moment of weakness, this isn't one of them. I just cannot fathom why people go out of their way to intentionally torture themselves in these games. I mean I am one to talk because sometimes, while I do move on and quit doing something I am not enjoying eventually...sometimes I am stubbourn and it takes me a while. This has happened in both DA I and Witcher 3...mainly the latter.

And don't get me wrong I would love to see the Open World improve for DA 4. I wrote a thread where I discussed the improvements I want to see. I can even accept that the 'loot drop rate' is too low and we should get more and better loot. But the whole crux of this is...for me anyways...DA I is filled to the brim with amazing content. One only has to ignore the stuff that annoys them, and do the stuff which is fun.

I guess in an open world game you need TONS of content to make the world seem fun and for many, the only content availabe are the fetch quest which many people do not find fun. Look at games like GTA San Andreas one of the most rewarding open world games and see all of the side content you can do. Hell, even look at the upcoming Fallout 4 and all the customization based side content as well as the quest side content. Then compare that to what DAI offered.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Skyrim was actually the perfect example for me in both how bad I am at following my own advice sometimes and though my willingness to quit.  Put nearly 200 hours into that game across two uncompleted playthroughs.  It was torture for me, so I stopped playing and moved back onto ME. 

Skyrim was honestly the worst game I've ever played.
the disk even broke from putting in the box. Was great.

[Al Foley]

I guess in an open world game you need TONS of content to make the world seem fun and for many, the only content availabe are the fetch quest which many people do not find fun. Look at games like GTA San Andreas one of the most rewarding open world games and see all of the side content you can do. Hell, even look at the upcoming Fallout 4 and all the customization based side content as well as the quest side content. Then compare that to what DAI offered.

IDK we have talked on this forum from time to time, you do realize I really enjoy DA I right?  And this post may sound a bit bitter but its not intended to be.  But the point is nothing really captures my imagination about Fallout 4 the way DA I did.  Probably because it is made by Bethasda and my one and only Bethasda experience for me was barely tolerable.  I mean it looks fun, I want it, but I doubt it will scratch the itches DA I did.  

 

But yes, you are essentially right and DA Is most unenjoyable aspect to me was the nature of its repetitive questing.  Which is the problem in Open World games.  The 'bigger' the world the more stuff you have to put in it the less fun it will probably be.  Witcher really sufers in this regard too. 

[NoForgiveness]

Skyrim was actually the perfect example for me in both how bad I am at following my own advice sometimes and though my willingness to quit.  Put nearly 200 hours into that game across two uncompleted playthroughs.  It was torture for me, so I stopped playing and moved back onto ME. 

 

Yes! I am not alone!! probably put a few hundreds hours and never completed the main story.. the only side story I finished was the mages and one dlc...

[Phoe77]

I thought that coming upon new and interesting sights and uncovering forgotten pieces of lore and history throughout the zones was enough to sustain my interest through my first playthrough easily.  In a way, it's similar to how one of my favorite things about the recent Fallout games is discovering terminal entries and other records that tell the little self-contained stories of the locations we're exploring.  For a first foray into open world games, I thought that Inquisition was pretty good.

 

I do think that there needs to be more to keep players interested in coming back, particularly in subsequent playthroughs though.  

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Yes! I am not alone!! probably put a few hundreds hours and never completed the main story.. the only side story I finished was the mages and one dlc...

There was a main story? I finished the companions and dark brother hood once.
I think I even did the thing after climbing the mountain.

[Al Foley]

And don't get me wrong I tend to lean towards the camp that it might not be a good idea to have an Open World in DA 4.  I loved what they did in Trespassers.  Huge expansive vistas, but only very small linear paths. 

[Donk]

Make it like... The Witcher 3.

*Runs away*