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Why does everyone think Solas didn't know the consequences of creating the veil?


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#1
Taritu

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I keep reading threads where people say Solas doesn't think things thru, etc...

 

But the conversation I had with him, I asked why he created the veil and he said that it was the least worst alternative... because if he didn't, the Elven "Gods" actions were going to destroy the world.

 

 



#2
Precursor Meta

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Yeah, Im sure giving Corypheus the orb and letting hundreds of people die was also the "least worse alternative"

 

 

It baffles my mind how this guy thinks.


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#3
KumoriYami

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Personally, I think he knew about what would happen, but not to the extent to which things did. Seeing as he knew that some realms relied on the Fade for their own presence suggests that he had some idea about it, and when he talked about spirits roaming like a state of nature in a Veil-less world, suggests that he knew at least 'physical' consequences of his actions. Not sure about elven immortality aside from it seemingly having something to do with elves' connection to the Fade...but what I find more interesting is the fact that the Evanuris were sealed by the Veil. Given that they were elves, it would imply that their physical forms are still trapped in the Fade or their spirits are being held there meaning their bodies may be in a state like uthenera. .



#4
Former_Fiend

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There is a difference between knowing the consequences and appreciating them.


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#5
SandiKay0

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I think he believed that it would reduce their magic, but he didn't think that was a bad thing until he woke and realized he reduced it to a trickle and that most people had no connection to the fade. Because if people had less power they wouldn't rise above others.

The last laugh was on him wasn't it.

#6
Arshei

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Or maybe Solas is just a powerful mage and not a god, and he is crazy like Leliana in DA:O who thinks she is chosen by the maker
If you think, why an elven god would be bald?



#7
thats1evildude

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He likely didn't anticipate the emergence of humans as the dominant species on Thedas.
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#8
DuskWanderer

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I keep reading threads where people say Solas doesn't think things thru, etc...

 

But the conversation I had with him, I asked why he created the veil and he said that it was the least worst alternative... because if he didn't, the Elven "Gods" actions were going to destroy the world.

 

He thought through the decision of creating the Veil. However, he did not think through the consequences of that choice. Solas already admits he screwed up, so I don't see how your statement holds. 


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#9
AnUnculturedLittlePotato

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Because this is the DA fandom. We can't have people make stupid decisions when they were just a precious baby who can know no wrong.
Or something.



#10
Jedi Master of Orion

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Solas is supposed to be a character that is ruthless in pursuit of his goals. I imagine he knew exactly (or almost entirely) what would happen when he created the Veil. The same with giving his Orb to Corypheus. Remember he said his plan called for "the world to burn in the raw chaos." 

 

Hundreds of people dying was part of his plan (or at least not unforeseen), what wasn't part of his plan was Corypheus being reborn in another body and picking up the Orb before him, and Justinia knocking the orb to the Inquisitor and bestowing the mark upon them.


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#11
Gervaise

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Solas does change his motivations for putting up the Veil and banishing the evanuris.   Initially he says it was because they killed Mythal.    Then he says it was because they were going to destroy the world.     He tells his followers that the evanuris are as mortal as they are; which since all elves are immortal obviously is him saying that they are killable.    Then he admits that he couldn't just kill them because he knew they might not remain dead; which means he lied to his followers.  

 

So my take on him is that at the time he didn't think it all through; he just came up with a plan that seemed likely to succeed.   Going up single handed (or with less powerful allies) against seven all powerful evanuris was never going to end well for him, so he came up with an alternative.   

 

Hindsight allowed him to justify his actions to himself.    So he didn't appreciate just how catastrophic his actions would be for the other elves and once it was done he couldn't face the consequences and didn't have sufficient power left to himself to reverse it, so he went into uthenera to recharge and consider the matter.  

 

It seems likely that his actions may have been driven by what we can discover in the Deep Roads.    Mythal had conquered something/someone (a titan?) down there and thus presumably given the elves access to lyrium.   Later we have the elves collapsing the tunnels and sealing it off in sheer panic at what is down there.    A voice (probably Solas) says that the evanuris will bring ruin to them all by their actions.    Suspect that what has been uncovered is red lyrium (which the evanuris want to make themselves more powerful) but has also revealed the Blight.     Mythal tries to forbid them from reopening the mines and is killed and Fen'Harel tricks them into using the Fade to access the stuff, before trapping them.  

 

Also have a theory that the reason Solas feels the world has to be destroyed and made anew is that red lyrium is now exposed on the surface, in addition to dark spawn running around the place, and there was a tranquil analysing red lyrium who said it couldn't be totally destroyed because of how it grows from just about anything, even small creatures in the earth (bacterium?).    So if he does nothing, then the world will eventually be destroyed and everything else by red lyrium.


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#12
Ieldra

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Or maybe Solas is just a powerful mage and not a god

Any individual with sufficient innate power is indistinguishable from a god.



#13
Elista

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I think he trusted his fellows and friends to soften the blow and help the Elvhen people to rise into a new era based on freedom. He often says how much he has been disappointed by foolish friends or that organisations always turn bad. Instead of what he expected, his people warred and mourned their lost gods... that is really what he didn't foresee. His actions could have resulted in a very different fate if he hadn't trusted too much his followers I think.
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#14
leaguer of one

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Yeah, Im sure giving Corypheus the orb and letting hundreds of people die was also the "least worse alternative"

 

 

It baffles my mind how this guy thinks.

1. One way or the other his plan would kill countless people.

2. His plan failed because of the inquisitor.



#15
leaguer of one

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Any individual with sufficient innate power is indistinguishable from a god.

That's only based on perspective.



#16
Arvaarad

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I think it's not so much "not knowing the consequences" as "not knowing the full extent of the consequences."

It's a bit like... sharks have been on Earth for the entirety of human existence, and millions of years before that. We know they're important components of the ecosystem. They've been around for so long that the ocean has evolved around their presence.

But we don't truly know what the ramifications would be if all or most of the sharks died. We've literally never known a world without sharks. Not only have humans never seen it; even the dinosaurs lived in the world where sharks were an established constant of nature.

If tomorrow, for some reason, sharks needed to be eliminated, we don't know what havoc would result. It would be incredibly hard for us to even make a cost-benefit analysis. How would we know whether it was the lesser of two evils? At best, we'd only be able to guess.

For Solas, magic was such a constant of nature that it was like removing sharks. He couldn't even conceive of what the world would be like with the Veil. He'd be able to say "well, it will likely be disastrous for reasons X, Y, and Z", while completely missing some of the other (potentially larger) side effects.

It's implied that he was also on a very short timer before the evanuris "destroyed the entire world". The Veil destroyed a lot of their civilization, but maybe the evanuris would have destroyed a lot more. We can't really say which was the lesser of two evils without knowing what the evanuris were doing, exactly, and why the Veil was able to stop it. Was it something with the Blight? Something with the titans? Something to do with the Void? Something even worse? Or maybe they were just killing everyone on the planet as they fought. We need more lore to decide.
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#17
Darkstarr11

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Like others have said, he misjudged.  I'm sure he knew that it would be bad...not HOW bad.  Cutting off a major portion of their magic?  Yeah.  Making them mortal?  Yeah, I think THAT he didn't know.  This was a species that lived, and breathed magic.  It was what they knew.  Their whole society thrived on it.  They couldn't imagine a world without it.  So, when he cut them off from it in a major way, they lost near everything.  

 

Aaaannnndddd...here it is.  The Elves became the panda of Thedas.  Sans magic, they went from dominant, to dominated.  Humans DIDN'T destroy them...oh, they picked up and enslaved the pieces, sure, but they didn't DESTROY the elves.  THAT came due to the fact that it is a LOT easier to blame someone else for your own mistakes.  Like Solas.  Sure, DON'T blame the nigh immortal despots who rule over you in fear...no, blame the guy who SAVED you.  Fair enough, right?  Solas ATTEMPTED to make things better.  To him, removing the Evanuris was worth the cost.  Well, until he got the receipt, and saw the bill.  Now, he feels he owes a debt.  He HAS to pay that debt.  Yet...the elves time has past.  They had their shot, and they collapsed.  Their time is OVER.  Is it sad?  Yes, but time marches on.  A new society has risen.  Humanity is now dominant (for now), and the Elves are stuck munching on bamboo and waving at tourists.  A sad end, for certain...but Pride toppled them (literally).

 

Solas doesn't WANT to kill humans (and dwarves...not so certain about the Qunari though), but to him, he must.  I sympathize with him.  Oh, he's wrong in more ways than a cannibalistic childrens cooking show host, but I get where he is coming from.  Let's be honest...if we woke up one day, and found our ENTIRE civilization GONE, we'd freak.  If we found a way to restore it, we'd take it...would EVERYONE do so knowing that you'd be condemning an untold amount to certain doom?  I HOPE not, but how do we know until we are actually IN that position?  

 

Solas KNEW that it would be bad.  I don't think he knew HOW bad, but he knew what he was doing.  He admits it.  What he is attempting to do to FIX the problem is just the same wrong but from a different direction.  He knows that to.  This guy isn't looking for glory, he THINKS he HAS to set right a terrible wrong.  Which, I'd say should make Thedas a bit MORE worried.  Guilt and a death seeker attitude will PROBABLY make him reckless...and when your plan is going to cause the world to burn, RECKLESS is not what you want to hear.


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#18
DeathScepter

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Solas has an impulsive side to him. When he goes Full Retard, he goes Full Retard.



#19
Dai Grepher

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I keep reading threads where people say Solas doesn't think things thru, etc...

 

But the conversation I had with him, I asked why he created the veil and he said that it was the least worst alternative... because if he didn't, the Elven "Gods" actions were going to destroy the world.

 

Right. Which is why Solas had to destroy the world first. :)
 



#20
Jedi Master of Orion

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Any individual with sufficient innate power is indistinguishable from a god.

 

In some settings, whether power is divine is actually quantifiable. But Solas himself sounds like he believes there is a standard for godhood that he doesn't meet.



#21
Big I

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He almost certainly knew the Veil would destroy the elven empire. However, he seems genuinely surprised that the Veil took away most people's magic. He was probably expecting the elves to be able to rebuild. Instead, he became responsible for the fall of his entire civilisation.


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#22
Cute Nug

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I think yes and I think no



#23
Taritu

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My point was Solas says that:

 

The elven Gods were going to destroy the world.

 

Therefore he created the veil to get rid of them.

 

No matter how bad the consequences, the world being destroyed is a greater evil than everything that came from creating the veil.

 

Certainly the consequences of the veil were worse than he expected. They are still better than the total destruction of the world.

 

Now, he could be lying, but if he's telling the truth (and is right about what the eleven Gods were going to do), then he was justified.

 

That does not mean he was justified in giving Corypheus the orb, nor does it mean he will be justified in genocide to remove the veil.  It means that creating the veil in the first place was justified.

 

Perhaps he is a great person who did something great and horrible, and now, riven with grief, is doing bad things.


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#24
Mr.House

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1. One way or the other his plan would kill countless people.

2. His plan failed because of the inquisitor.

Eh no?

 

Coryfish had effective immorality and had the inquisitor not shown up, Coryfish would have gotten the mark and went into the the black city. All the Inquisitor did was allow Solas to clean up his mistake.


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#25
In Exile

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Presumably, Solas thought what he would do would have been limited to the Evanuris, but it wasn't; instead, it affected all of the elves, and perhaps the entire world. I'd wager his veil was just meant to separate the Evanuris from their nature, and not the world from it.