This issue has come up before, but I think it was before the newest daggers were released.
I'm using the Hakkon dagger in my main hand, but I'm having a helluva time picking an off-hand dagger because there are so many good choices. I'm currently using Bloody Bargain on the Duelist (that awesome Bolt fire rate!), but on the Sister I can't decide between Bloody Bargain, Nameless Blade, Audacity, and Savage Thorn (and maybe even Silencer).
What say you, BSN?
Well some lucky bastards got Bosun's Blade or 2nd hakkon's mercy and I guess they don't need to think so hard about this matter.
It's a tough one, so tough I'm kinda glad the dragons have not blessed me with the Hakkon dagger. Bloody Bargain and Savage Thorn is currently on everything for me, the speed boost from Bloody Bargain is just so great. And obviously, free guard from Thorn is awesome as well.
Assuming someone with better dragon-droppings luck than I, so the scenario is Hakkon main hand: I'd say Bloody Bargain on everyone, switch in Savage Thorn on the Sister if you feel you're not sturdy enough with her built in guard generation (yeah yeah, low promote problems).
Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot Bosun's Blade is a thing too... Dammit.
Modifié par BadgerladDK, 10 octobre 2015 - 01:02 .
so the scenario is Hakkon main hand: I'd say Bloody Bargain on everyone
Pretty much this, but I don't really have anything worth using instead. Maybe Hakkon and Bosun on the assassin. Suppose alchemist is viable for that too, if only for frost flask -> shadow strike. Something to test if I ever get the Bosun's Blade (so probably never).
It'd be hard to switch out Bloody Bargain anyway. Twin Fangs at mach 1 is my favourite thing, until stairs.
Just hit from the side if you struggle with it on stairsTwin Fangs at mach 1 is my favourite thing, until stairs.
Even though I have 2 hakons I prefer having a savage thorn for less squishiness on Nightmare runs if you are the last one not faded. For my SS it's fun to play with just the savage thorn and bloody bargain. Bloody bargain is fun for speed on any level with SS and the alchemist. I don't play Isabella much. For different flavor you can use any of the mentioned daggers on lower difficulties. My promotes average about 90 and I still find the guard boost useful at times on nightmare with savage thorn.
It depends on the difficulty and the character.
You should use whatever 2 daggers you got in that order:
Nightmare
Alchemist
For a build with Mines
Hakkon's Mercy
Bloody Bargain
Silencer
Savage Thorn
Audacity
Walking Death
Nameless Blade
Stone Stalker
Agony
Dagger of the Dragon
Bosun Blade
For a build with Stealth, Shadow Strike, Twin Fangs, Flank Attack (Can be amazingly destructive)
Bosun Blade
Bloody Bargain
Hakkon's Mercy
Silencer
Nameless Blade
Savage Thorn
Stone Stalker
Audacity
Walking Death
Agony
Dagger of the Dragon
Assassin
Bosun Blade
Bloody Bargain
Hakkon's Mercy
Silencer
Nameless Blade
Savage Thorn
Stone Stalker
Audacity
Walking Death
Agony
Dagger of the Dragon
Duelist
Hakkon's Mercy
Bloody Bargain
Silencer
Nameless Blade
Savage Thorn
Stone Stalker
Audacity
Walking Death
Agony
Dagger of the Dragon
Bosun Blade
Sister
Hakkon's Mercy
Savage Thorn
Bloody Bargain
Silencer
Nameless Blade
Stone Stalker
Audacity
Walking Death
Agony
Dagger of the Dragon
Bosun Blade
Perilous (character doesn't really matter)
Main Hand
Bloody Bargain
Hakkon's Mercy
Silencer
Nameless Blade
Savage Thorn
Stone Stalker
Dagger of the Dragon
Audacity
Walking Death
Agony
Bosun Blade
Off Hand
Audacity
Walking Death
Silencer
Agony
Stone Stalker
Hakkon's Mercy
Bloody Bargain
Savage Thorn
Nameless Blade
Dagger of the Dragon
Bosun Blade
Just hit from the side if you struggle with it on stairs
Yup. The desire to get the flanking bonus sometimes gets the better of me, is all.
It depends on the difficulty and the character.
You should use whatever 2 daggers you got in that order:
Nice tree. I really like Bargain on Assassin as an off-hand, especially as she guarantees death every time she attacks and therefore the weapon proc's attack speed / movement speed.
I don't have Bosun's blade, and I do want it, but I don't need it even for HB. I don't use that waste of an ability flank attack and die on stream though.
I don't like bargain on Duelist because her attacks don't always guarantee enemy death. Nameless blade is much more reliable for a lot more damage.
The sister can use whatever she likes and do fine, though my money's on Nameless. Alchemist's best choice is Bargain for mine spam.
Oh you have nothing against Rock? But here you go with this again? Bash on other people but when we (Such as Snakebite and Myself) prove you to be an unreliable source (such as in that post with that Reaver Build I use) you can't be civil and have to use a child like tantrum? "This build and your knowledge of the game are trash" is what I recall you saying. Leave Drasca, stop trying to bash on people for a game, get a life
I don't use that waste of an ability flank attack and die on stream though.
imo best thing about bargain is the 17% hok. Its rare to get hok on daggers and the next closest if I'm not mistaken are dragon daggers at 4% each. 17% hok really frees up rings.
The poison dagger (can't remember name) give 5% but yes it is pretty legit. All the speed does it lets you finish up faster so it is a little usefullimo best thing about bargain is the 17% hok. Its rare to get hok on daggers and the next closest if I'm not mistaken are dragon daggers at 4% each. 17% hok really frees up rings.
I'm one of the lucky bastards that has a 2nd hakkon dagger (got it in a chest).
Honestly, I'm not that impressed. Diminishing returns is a thing with 2 hakkons.
140->240 crit damage= 71% damage increase on crits.
240->340 crit damage=41% damage increase on crits.
Napkin math, the bonus would be even smaller taking everything into account.
Before the introduction of the latest weapons in the latest patch, the hakkon would have been bis hands down. Now, it's debatable. The 50% attack speed on bloody bargain makes it superior to the hakkon for me for Izzy and Pala. Arguably it's also best for Luka, more mine spam during flask, as the animations are sped up, allowing you to drop more mines.
Pala could also use the savage thorn in offhand, if your stats aren;t that great. The guard generation is noticeably different with and without the Thorn. Otherwise->Bloody Bargain.
Nameless blade/audacity still has it's uses on Izzy mainly. Not so much on other characters, that actually use the offhand dagger for several skills. Nevertheless, i'd pick bloody bargain over anything else, the gameplay is smoother.
The assassin is the only one i could actually use 2 hakkons and them being superior. Bloody bargain is again a good choice, as it speeds up the animations and makes twin fangs a bit more reliable on moving targets. Don't have the 500% from behind dagger, but i'd immagine that is the best option for her.
TL;DR - I'd pick bloody bargain in offhand over anything else for every char besides assasin. Assasin should use the 500% dagger.
Bosun's Blade is legitimately awesome on Assassin and on nothing else. Because who else would be able to flank so much to make use of the bonus (stealth-based Alchemist I know).
Before the Bosun, I never dared take her on NM because I'd be useless - I am not too promoted so I couldn't one-shot almost anything and make use of I was never here (which is still buggy, mind you). With the Bosun I can one shot everything except pride demons (and probably Saarebas either but I haven't played with her against them). It's really fun playing her with it actually, making her the back stabbing one-shot monster she was intended to be. 
Wouldn't use it on Peri though, teammates will kill things before you have the chance to properly flank them. 
I think the TheThirdRace made the best list for the daggers though, those would be my choices too.
Before the introduction of the latest weapons in the latest patch, the hakkon would have been bis hands down. Now, it's debatable. The 50% attack speed on bloody bargain makes it superior to the hakkon for me for Izzy and Pala. Arguably it's also best for Luka, more mine spam during flask, as the animations are sped up, allowing you to drop more mines.
Pala could also use the savage thorn in offhand,
You wouldn't be killing stuff with bargain + duelist outside of perilous, where it wouldn't matter. Or at the very least, your overall killing speed would be far less than with nameless, which has an upfront and immediate damage buff that scales with the number of enemies near you. The same goes for audacity when you kill things nearby, especially against those with low hp (perilous and below). Isolated targets are what bargain is best at when playing Izzy, but those don't need buffs to kill.
I have a friend that swears by bargain. I outkill and outscore him every time when we both play izzy and I use nameless instead. You do move and attack faster as izzy, but that doesn't matter since her best abilities let her dash across the map or kill at range regardless, and benefit more from upfront damage actually getting the kill. i.e. you won't get the kill unless you're playing around scrubs and vastly OP for the situation.
The napkin math does demonstrate the relative damage increase being less, especially against multipliers like nameless blade. Still awesome to have though.
You'd get scenting blood a lot of the time with Pala, which reduces the point of Bargain. Izzy with bargain is pretty terrible since her attacks are all burst, which lends itself to nameless blade upfront damage bonus.
Granted, we're talking about end-game weapons and for most people its less of what we want and rather RNG actually lets us have, so this discussion is moot for a lot of folks.
For example, If I had bosun's I'd try FA with it. I don't, so I can't recommend FA because I haven't used it. As an assassin, you need to kill enemies before they can counterattack, so I can't recommend anything that doesn't allow for that.
I'd actually want to know how bosun interacts with ele mines too. Would there be added damage based upon the position of the player? What about toxic cloud? Evade? I don't have that toy, so I don't know.
Oh you have nothing against Rock?
Rofl, It doesn't seem to get his goat, but definitely gets yours launched. The best part is he's a better player than you hands-down, and still got sloppy on stream, and your group of promo's are terribly great about encouraging sloppy play with each other.
The fact remains you're the one most upset by this.
Rock+stream= death
I don't care who you are that was funny as hell 
Even though I have 2 hakons I prefer having a savage thorn for less squishiness on Nightmare runs if you are the last one not faded. For my SS it's fun to play with just the savage thorn and bloody bargain. Bloody bargain is fun for speed on any level with SS and the alchemist. I don't play Isabella much. For different flavor you can use any of the mentioned daggers on lower difficulties. My promotes average about 90 and I still find the guard boost useful at times on nightmare with savage thorn.
TL;DR - I'd pick bloody bargain in offhand over anything else for every char besides assasin. Assasin should use the 500% dagger.
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