And why couldn't Vivienne supply her loyalist mages in that case?
Yeah, but you might not even need them. You already have Solas and Vivienne herself, plus other mages in the Inquisition. Lysette and other templars are there too, and I'm sure mages and templars could work together to close the breach, so in that case you have way more people than you need already. It's kind of dumb if you think about it.
And why couldn't Vivienne supply her loyalist mages in that case?
Yeah, but you might not even need them. You already have Solas and Vivienne herself, plus other mages in the Inquisition. Lysette and other templars are there too, and I'm sure mages and templars could work together to close the breach, so in that case you have way more people than you need already. It's kind of dumb if you think about it.
It would have been fun to get mages from both the Qunari and Vents so they had work together to help Quizzy close the breach.
I think part of the reason they made you pick mage or templar was to encourage replay value.
The game was pretty inconsistent in whether Vivienne was just BSing about having any support at all, within the Circles.
Yeah and I'm still shocked that she didn't have a larger presence in the Winter Palace. That was such a wasted opportunity. I liked the war table missions based around companions, but I would have liked to have more in-game involvement. Like recruiting Vivienne allowed easier access to the Winter Palace but made it more difficult to ally with the mages. Or have more of a presence of the Red Jennies, helping fight the Freemen.
I do like this better but sorry nope. We fight too many red pimplars for the rest of the game in half the chore zones regardless of which side you chose.
For me the ridiculous amount of red plimplars you have to fight makes more sense if you sided with the mages.
If they restructured the later fights with red pimplars in game to adequately explain why when you had allied with their leadership early in game then it could work.
I agree though that ending the mage-pimplar war with them having to work together for a moment at least to stop the breach is a more interesting story then the rebel mages continuing to be dumb enough to all be indentured servants to a Teventer cult and the Elder One. They are rebel enough to start a losing war against the templars but are suddenly not rebel enough anymore to see the Venatori and Eldar One suck. Makes it hard to not want to lock them up in circles because they are in game stupid in DAI. The in game mage story was a bit ham handed for my tastes. I would have preferred to rescue them with a group of pimplars.
The time jump see the world if Cory had succeeded should have been DLC like the DAO darkspawn DLC although it's pretty bleak if you don't go back and save the world so maybe not.
IT's spelled "Templars" not "plimplars".
The game was pretty inconsistent in whether Vivienne was just BSing about having any support at all, within the Circles.
The Codexes seem to support that she had supporters as does banter and various conversations. Vivienne was the Leader of the Loyalist Fraternity which provided the core of the loyalist faction along with that Fraternity that was obsessed with making money and oddly enough the Isolationists all of whom were opposed to the war for different reasons. those two fraternities threw their lot in with the loyalists because the rebel mages tried to murder them all for trying to stay neutral or in the case of the loyalists loyal to the chantry.
They are admittedly the minority of mages but the rebels themselves were only slightly more than half the mages being made up of the two largest fraternities at the start of the war.
Many mages however were pointedly hiding be it in their former circles sometimes with some of the remaining templars trying to protect them or the wilderness from both the rebelling Templars and the rebel mages.
The Codexes seem to support that she had supporters as does banter and various conversations. Vivienne was the Leader of the Loyalist Fraternity which provided the core of the loyalist faction along with that Fraternity that was obsessed with making money and oddly enough the Isolationists all of whom were opposed to the war for different reasons. those two fraternities threw their lot in with the loyalists because the rebel mages tried to murder them all for trying to stay neutral or in the case of the loyalists loyal to the chantry.
They are admittedly the minority of mages but the rebels themselves were only slightly more than half the mages being made up of the two largest fraternities at the start of the war.
Many mages however were pointedly hiding be it in their former circles sometimes with some of the remaining templars trying to protect them or the wilderness from both the rebelling Templars and the rebel mages.
Where did the equitarians fall?
IT's spelled "Templars" not "plimplars".
Oh, I thought they called themselves pimplars because they considered themselves the pimps in charge of their mages.
Templar works to I guess.
Oh, I thought they called themselves pimplars because they considered themselves the pimps in charge of their mages.
Templar works to I guess.
I don't have the time to even entertain this with a response.
Suffice to say: You're wrong.
Where did the equitarians fall?
The Aequitarians and Libertarians Fraternities which are the two largest are in the rebel camp while the Loyalists, Lucrosians and Isolationists Fraternities formed the Loyalist faction to oppose the rebel mages.
The Aequitarians and Libertarians Fraternities which are the two largest are in the rebel camp while the Loyalists, Lucrosians and Isolationists Fraternities formed the Loyalist faction to oppose the rebel mages.
Really? Maybe I'm remembering the aequitarians wrong but I don't see rebellion as something they'd do.
I mean we barely know anything about any of them in general so... >.>
Partly it has to do with the actions of the previous lord seeker and the events of Asunder but what I always wonder about is why they went along with the whole if you aren't with us we are going to murder you all thing the rebels tried to pull on the faction that wanted to stay loyal and the fraternities that wanted to stay neutral.
The silliest thing about this decision is that the faction you will ostentibly be facing as Cory's 'main' faction never get their main intro quest! The Venatori have their big moment in 'In Hushed Whispers' and their actual introduction in the Castle Redcliffe hall scene is extremely sinister and one of the best in the game. Meanwhile, the Red Templars get their formal introduction in another excellent scene with Knight Captain Nutjob Denam, in 'Champions of the Just'.
But if you see either of these scenes, then that faction becomes the 'have been mostly neutralized' one, at least in terms of the narrative. And the game doesn't do nearly enough with either Calpernia or Samson, although much as I think 'Champions of the Just' is by far the better quest, I have to say Samson is a better utilized antagonist, particularly as Cullen is so invested in that quest. (Plus I can't stand that stupid magic hologram bit, complete with Mass Effect music in Calpernia's quest...)
Overall, I think the Red Templars are *far* better written and used in this game than the Venatori who only really have 1 decentish quest (In Hushed Whispers is well written, even if the time travel element is ridiculous) and their version of the Temple of Dumat is probably the better of the 2. Although neither live up the billing that such a location deserves. I was so jazzed to be going to Dumat's temple, but there is basically no mention of him at all! I get that he's dead, but damn - give me something here game! I love Dumat!
I would have liked being forced to recruit both sides instead of "pick one". Picking mages means a decent guy like Barras ends up dead. Picking Templars means a lot of innocent mages (many of them children) who never wanted this rebellion in the first place, die. Either option alone sucked. And choosing templars when there is quite obviously a messed up situation with Redcliffe in the control of a hostile foreign national was just ...stupid. NO reason to recruit templars beyond "The Lord Seeker is acting weird" whatsoever. However, recruiting them to free the mages from Ventori control in Redcliffe would have made some logical sense.
But we only get one choice, and I'm gonna go with the one that makes more sense to me. Plus, Samson has history with Cullen, one of the Quizzie's advisers, and thus, more of a connection to the story than some mage they added for this game.
I have a real problem supporting the Mage Rebellion and letting the Templars get poisoned and turned into bad guys. Because it feels like over the course of the game, the mages are rewarded for their manifold irresponsible and indeed criminal actions, and it feels uncomfortably akin to supporting terrorists. The corruption of the Templars against their will feels like a huge failure of justice, no matter what later happens.,
I'm not unsympathetic to the need for reform at the Circle. But this was not the way, and though the Mages had little say over what Fiona agreed with Alexius, they could still have chosen to simply leave Redcliffe if they were *that* opposed to the idea. I'm not saying it would be an easy decision for them to make, going it alone or in small groups, But they sure had more chance than the poor old Templars who were lied to, poisoned and turned into what are basically alien creatures wearing the skin of the people they used to be.
I know and the thing with the rebel mages doesn't help when you realize what happened with the tranquil and that they went all you if you will not join us we will kill you driving almost half the mages driving into hiding from both them and the templars or into joining the loyalist faction.
I have a real problem supporting the Mage Rebellion and letting the Templars get poisoned and turned into bad guys. Because it feels like over the course of the game, the mages are rewarded for their manifold irresponsible and indeed criminal actions, and it feels uncomfortably akin to supporting terrorists. The corruption of the Templars against their will feels like a huge failure of justice, no matter what later happens.,
I'm not unsympathetic to the need for reform at the Circle. But this was not the way, and though the Mages had little say over what Fiona agreed with Alexius, they could still have chosen to simply leave Redcliffe if they were *that* opposed to the idea. I'm not saying it would be an easy decision for them to make, going it alone or in small groups, But they sure had more chance than the poor old Templars who were lied to, poisoned and turned into what are basically alien creatures wearing the skin of the people they used to be.
I feel the exact opposite. I can't abandon the mages and go to the templars. Everything I see is the mages being abandoned by all their supporters and thus being forced to make bad decisions just to survive. Heck, pretty much everyone hates the mages by the start of the game given how pretty much everyone assumes the mages caused the breach. That pretty much makes me more likely to support the mages given how I feel for them and won't abandon them just because of desperation. I also won't condemn the innocents just because of their alliance. Can you seriously say you are okay condeming CHILDREN into slavery and likely torture in blood magic rituals just because Fiona messed up?
Also, throughout the series, I've seen the mage issue essentially be mages being imprisoned for existing and the templars continue to impose restrictions on them with any attempts at fighting back being used as justification for more restrictions as seen in Kirkwall and Asunder. The circles as they are way too corrupt for me to support. Asunder pretty much sealed the deal for me being pro-mage.
Also, the templar order as it is was way too corrupt for me to support. The majority of the decent templars already left which means the remaining templars are the mage-hating douchebags who started the war. The templar who complains to Cassandra if you recruit the templars and the Silver Shield are proof that the templars are still full of mage-haters. Heck, even before, it was pretty much confirmed that templars who actually cared about mages as people and wanted to protect them were in the minority.
As far as I'm concerned, having the mages gain their freedom and support while proving themselves to Thedas makes for a much better story than going to the templars. To me, having the templars be destroyed by their own hatred of mages makes for a fitting and karmic end to the templar order.
This also doesn't change the fact that the game itself, when looked at in an unbiased nature, leans heavily towards helping the mages. Heck, even the Trespasser ending outright acts like you sided with the mages and ignores the templars.
All in all, I can't side with the templars and allow a bunch of mage-haters gain strength and let innocent mages be brainwashed and killed.
I feel the exact opposite. I can't abandon the mages and go to the templars. Everything I see is the mages being abandoned by all their supporters and thus being forced to make bad decisions just to survive. Heck, pretty much everyone hates the mages by the start of the game given how pretty much everyone assumes the mages caused the breach. That pretty much makes me more likely to support the mages given how I feel for them and won't abandon them just because of desperation. I also won't condemn the innocents just because of their alliance. Can you seriously say you are okay condeming CHILDREN into slavery and likely torture in blood magic rituals just because Fiona messed up?
Also, throughout the series, I've seen the mage issue essentially be mages being imprisoned for existing and the templars continue to impose restrictions on them with any attempts at fighting back being used as justification for more restrictions as seen in Kirkwall and Asunder. The circles as they are way too corrupt for me to support. Asunder pretty much sealed the deal for me being pro-mage.
Also, the templar order as it is was way too corrupt for me to support. The majority of the decent templars already left which means the remaining templars are the mage-hating douchebags who started the war. The templar who complains to Cassandra if you recruit the templars and the Silver Shield are proof that the templars are still full of mage-haters. Heck, even before, it was pretty much confirmed that templars who actually cared about mages as people and wanted to protect them were in the minority.
As far as I'm concerned, having the mages gain their freedom and support while proving themselves to Thedas makes for a much better story than going to the templars. To me, having the templars be destroyed by their own hatred of mages makes for a fitting and karmic end to the templar order.
This also doesn't change the fact that the game itself, when looked at in an unbiased nature, leans heavily towards helping the mages. Heck, even the Trespasser ending outright acts like you sided with the mages and ignores the templars.
All in all, I can't side with the templars and allow a bunch of mage-haters gain strength and let innocent mages be brainwashed and killed.
The fact that you actually think you can get rid of the circles and the templar order is laughable, honestly.
How exactly will a bunch of free mages get food, water, shelter, clothing ect? Who exactly will stop the townsfolk from ripping mages apart? All it took was ser baris to waltz up and the townspeople dispersed.
You can't just get rid of these institutions, which makes being forced to choose all the worse.
Tresspasser speaks to the writers desire to go from grey morality to black/white morality.
The fact that you actually think you can get rid of the circles and the templar order is laughable, honestly.
How exactly will a bunch of free mages get food, water, shelter, clothing ect? Who exactly will stop the townsfolk from ripping mages apart? All it took was ser baris to waltz up and the townspeople dispersed.
You can't just get rid of these institutions, which makes being forced to choose all the worse.
Tresspasser speaks to the writers desire to go from grey morality to black/white morality.
I got what I wanted from the epilogues so I don't really care what other people think. If you don't like it that is your problem.
You're acting like its my fault or my Inquisitor's fault they were placed in that situation. I didn't oppress them, I didn't force them to break away illegally from the Chantry, I didn't make them sign an agreement with Tevinter, and nobody was forcing them to actually do it. If they didn't like the terms, they could just have left. Nobody present has the resources to track them down - the Venatori would simply take whoever decided to stay. Slavery is part of how the Imperium works, and its a society that has persisted for centuries. If that's the system the Mages want to enter into, they can't complain about the rules not suiting them.
They have made some spectacularly bad choices. The whole vote was illegal in the first place, seeing as the Chantry and Templars were not consulted and did not agree to abide by its result. The motion was carried by a slim majority, yet they forced everyone to abide by it and entered into a crazy mass walkout, when they had no lands, no allies and only a small number of people with even rudimentary warfare skills. Most Circle inhabitants would be finding it hard enough simply to adjust to life outside the Chantry, without the added pressure of being homeless, friendless and hunted.
Its isn't my fault that they made such stupid choices, and they could still back down from this at any time. Either by leaving Redcliffe or more sensibly suing for peace. Which would require the Templars to be receptive to this, making it another good idea to get them back to the negotiating table. The Mages have no supporters because as Vivienene points out, their actions have made it impossible for anyone to view them favorably, They have caused upheaval, confirmed people's suspicions about Mages being troublesome, and made themselves into criminals. Anyone who sided with them would be tarred with that brush, and would constitute a clear political statement - even if all they wanted to do was help people in need of shelter etc as Alistair tries to. And as he finds out, good intentions are all well and good but the realities of having this rogue movement in your lands is profound and ultimately not worth the cost.
They made every bad choice themselves, they made the absolute worst choices in every instance and their actions have on many occasions been criminal. So no, I don't feel bad for not supporting them. I'm with Vivienne in thinking that the thing you should be feeling sorry about is that they were so foolish as to choose this course of action in the first place.They brought it on themselves, and yes there are many who didn't want this. But their excuses in Redcliffe of 'Oh, I felt I should just go with the flow...' Well, need I say more?
Eh, guys I think we can avoid turning this into ANOTHER "Mage vs. Templar" thread.
Retour en haut