172 réponses à ce sujet

[Snakebite]

I stopped caring about the integrity of the game when BW completely disregarded the integrity of some of its player base.

 

[DanakV]

... One allowed lazy players like myself to play Perilous as level 20 rather than level 1 for one game, back when it took 8-10 Perilous games per promotion, with virtually no increase in Exp/Hour rate since it would take the same amount of games to promote anyway...

 

Not to pick on you - because I pretty much agree with what I've seen of your stance on these matters - but I do have to comment on the latter part of the statement.  While it is certainly to a different degree there is absolutely an experience per hour gain by playing the match on a level 20 versus a level 1.  Sure, I'm sure you could solo a match at any level with your gear and promotes anyway but your pace is measurably slower at level 1.

 

They're really the same thing just to different degrees.  It's a shame playing a level 1 is so dull though; I still wish BioWare had made the 100 operations challenge allow your future promotions on that kit to start level 5 or something instead of just giving a banner.  It would have been a lot less tedious that way.

[SpaceV3gan]

Yes I would still do it if it was there, all these way are faster for promoting. And I never said I was against modding, just don't use them in public matches. Keep it private

Wait, I though there were no exploits in your game. That you just "I just run through. No exploit" as you had previously mentioned. You are pretty inconsistent in your statements.

So, would you care to explain to us how these mods are like and how they are helping you in your promotion quest?

[ThatBruhYouDK]

Wait, I though there were no exploits in your game. That you just "I just run through. No exploit" as you had previously mentioned. You are pretty inconsistent in your statements.

So, would you care to explain to us how these mods are like and how they are helping you in your promotion quest?

I feel like you are reading incorrectly.. I said I am not against people using mods. As long as they keep it in private games so as not to interfere with others public matches. Some people want to go through normal, others want to mod the game, have fun, turn an enemies model into a giant Barney or something idk. I can't make mods, I'm not good with coding and **** like that, I'm just do server maintenance and SLIGHT software maintenance..I can't understand much stuff like that, so no...back on track: I never once said I do that, just idc if people do (as said above) just keep it in your own PRIVATE MATCHES AWAY FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC. Is that clear enough for you?

[ThatBruhYouDK]

Also: don't act like I don't see you there Monkey...liking all of my things..I am onto you bro

[Campout King]

It's getting warm in here... could someone plz open window??? Lol

[Proto]

As for exploits, I personally consider spawn camping an exploit, but until recently I had thought a necessary one to perform because teammates cannot progress fast enough to make up the gap in gear, promotes and skill to complete otherwise. I no longer think that spawn camping is necessary because I can arm them.

 

The leaderboard is a dirty place. If you're on there at the top, you've done stuff others will find unethical whether its the class change early on, spawn camping, class build whoring, or any number of things I haven't even mentioned. It isn't a nice place and inherently an unfair thing.

 

Legitimate questions:

 

Do people consider "spawn camping" an exploit? 

 

Do people consider "spawn milking" an exploit?

 

Before the Dragonslayer DLC and the introduction of FC, Snakebite, Martin and I usually just ran through matches as quickly as possible. We would compete for high score. We didn't care about what classes we played because the only doors we opened were freebies, and that was only if someone decided to stop and take the time to open it. Yes, Beerfish...we were dirty gold leechers. There was never a conscious effort to block spawns. We enjoyed the game-play that way and felt it was more engaging and fun.

 

I would occasionally get invited to groups that consisted of top 20 players. I quickly found out the game-play style we used was not considered optimal for EXP generation. The higher leaderboard players would remind me to stay behind certain points, not to rush mobs ect...They wanted as many mobs to spawn as possible, even if that meant standing around while 2-3 spawned at a time. The premise was more EXP and it cut down on loading times. Lets just say, I found it quite boring.

 

When FC became all the rage, Snakebite, Martin and I continued to play with the same style. Immediately, we all HATED Zone 2 and Zone 3. It always felt like we had to run back and forth to finish off one or two straggler mobs. Yall know what I'm talking about. That dog that's stuck in the wall across from the treasure door in Zone 2. Those last couple gibbering horrors that spawn on the opposite side of the bridge in Zone 3. Once you get to them and finish them off, two more have spawned back where you just came from. There was no "challenge" to running back and forth. Those last couple mobs posed no threat. After many many completions we all knew where we needed to be standing for the keys to drop once the mobs had been cleared. We never considered this an exploit, it was just our style of game-play. We didn't want to deal with the tedious trickle spawns. 

 

Whenever I would play in PUGS they would turtle up. Even leaderboard EXP groups would sit in rooms or at the bottom of staircases and just wait for mobs to trickle to their doom. Their strategy was to aggro the whole map, run to a choke point and make sure everything funneled to its death. I remember playing with a BSNer and his group. I ended up dying to the first couple spawns solo because I engaged them alone and didn't realize till after that the rest of the group had gone straight into the treasure room and was waiting at the bottom of the ladders while one of the members had gone up, opened the door to aggro the last spawn and dropped back down the ladder. They were milking Zone 1...I had never been part of a group that did that. Apparently it was common practice. They then did this in Zone 2 at the ladders, in Zone 3 at the ladders and again in Zone 4 in the usual "camp" room. The match took forever and was played at an extremely slow-pace. But, we completed and received a large amount of EXP. 

 

Then, Snakebite had his Thunderdome with Drasca. Drasca was embarrassed. Which, to be honest. I was certain would happen. I didn't need to see Drasca's gameplay. I had played with Snakebite enough to know that he was quite good at speed runs. Shoot, its how we played on a regular basis. I even bet six of my superb heal on kill rings that he would win. In the end, Drasca accused Snakebite of spawn-camping and claimed spawn-camping was the only reason he had been beaten so handily. Now, that claim was absurd. Anyone who understood spawn mechanics would know that it's impossible to spawn camp when solo. Even before they changed the spawn radius the spawn points were too spread out to block all of them at once when solo. You had to deal with the trickle spawn no matter what. Because of this, Snakebite and I decided to have some fun and see how quickly we could duo Perilous. You only needed two people at the time. We ended up doing quite well. I posted it to BSN and Drasca again called it spawn-camping. Ever since, that dirty word has been associated with our preferred style of play.

 

Anyway, Nightmare and the Hakkon weapons were introduced. As a result, quite a few of the leaderboard players who weren't too fond of our playstyle previously were now inviting us to games regularly. Quicker completions now outweighed experience. I'm sure many groups were playing similarly to us long before any videos were posted, but now more and more players were using the "rush" style to better their odds at the Hakkon weapons. This trend continued, and the devs decided they needed to increase the spawn radius, which didn't bother us at all. Rushing the map was still perfectly doable. After a while the majority of the organized groups had most their Hakkon weapons and returned to farming EXP and "milking spawns."

 

I consider both methods playing the game as it's intended to be played. Just two different methods of completing a match. Spawn milking takes longer but allows for enough downtime that getting the doors doesn't hinder completion time and it results in much more experience per completion. Rushing the map results in less exp but faster completions and as a result more objective completions as well as challenge completions. The "rush" method became more appealing when the dragon gated items were introduced and completions rewarded the best weapons in the game. 

 

TLDR: 

 

IMO spawn-camping and spawn-milking are not exploits. They are preferred game-play styles and or strategies. These styles and or strategies are in no way comparable to the exploit shown in the video of this thread. Neither style or strategy involves using host migrations to trick the game into manufacturing 4X EXP or extreme damage increases. Rather, "spawn camping" and "spawn milking" are varying styles of play that involve conscious character positioning within the game through varying strategies.

 

Before the 4X EXP glitch, everyone was on an even playing field. Sure there were tricks or mechanics that weren't "working as intended" that people used in advantageous ways. I never used the level 20 re-enter technique. Didn't even know it existed. From what I've been told it was annoying. You had to wait for the player to leave, rejoin ect...really killed the immersion. Fact of the matter is, everyone was free to use them. There were no threats from the developers. The fact that Bioware threatened recourse for the EXP glitch and as a result some people used it and others didn't was what "broke" the leaderboards. Just because that one circumstance ruined the leaderboard, doesn't mean we should generalize and call any in-game tactic that may be advantageous unethical.

 

Super TLDR:

 

Increasing damage by almost 10X normal amounts through host migrations or whatever other trickery is used to create this seems far more unintended than "spawn camping" or "spawn milking."

[SpaceV3gan]

I feel like you are reading incorrectly.. I said I am not against people using mods. As long as they keep it in private games so as not to interfere with others public matches. Some people want to go through normal, others want to mod the game, have fun, turn an enemies model into a giant Barney or something idk. I can't make mods, I'm not good with coding and **** like that, I'm just do server maintenance and SLIGHT software maintenance..I can't understand much stuff like that, so no...back on track: I never once said I do that, just idc if people do (as said above) just keep it in your own PRIVATE MATCHES AWAY FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC. Is that clear enough for you?

 

Clear. Thanks. I probably read incorrectly. Having read your use and approval of exploits as well as views on mods could have made me see an extra personal pronoun or possessive adjective or something which changed my interpretation (as a dyslexic, I might get things messed up at times).

Anyway, keep up the good and legit work. Most people that I know around your position on the Leaderboards have stats in the late 100s, therefore max defenses. You have had an admirable DAMP career despite our very different, almost opposing views on many issues.

[Wavebend]

Super TLDR:

 

Super Super TLDR:

 

Spoiler

Working as intended.

[Proto]

Super Super TLDR:

 

Spoiler

Working as intended.

 

[Drasca]

Legitimate questions:

 

Do people consider "spawn camping" an exploit? 

 

Do people consider "spawn milking" an exploit?

 

I consider a lot of things exploits. These opinions have no practical value on anyone else's game outside my own matches, as I'm not a dev with the ability to change the game for other people. The effects limited to my own games.

 

I will however complain about them when I see it going on.

[Drasca]

 want to mod the game, have fun, turn an enemies model into a giant Barney or something idk.

 

 

 

I suddenly want to fight a giant pool playing barney in a death match of DAI Billiards using charging bull as the stick and horrors for balls.

[ThatBruhYouDK]

I suddenly want to fight a giant pool playing barney in a death match of DAI Billiards using charging bull as the stick and horrors for balls.

If you could do that I would love to see it xD

[Spin-Orbit]

I stopped caring about the integrity of the game when BW completely disregarded the integrity of some of its player base.

Integrity of the game and integrity of the player is two different things. I have stopped caring about integrity of MP game long before DAMP, integrity of the player is left to each's own internal gauge just like in real life and the colors we shade it with. 

[xsvTOYZ]

dam Proto I fell asleep reading that crap

 

 

cheating is cheating  

you can hide or change the name or justify it but it is what it is ....cheating

if you have to manipulate a room to get in just right so you can have skills the game didnt intend for you to have then you cheated

 

you can poke fun at me if that helps you

but it wont change anything

[ParthianShotX]

Integrity of the game and integrity of the player is two different things. I have stopped caring about integrity of MP game long before DAMP, integrity of the player is left to each's own internal gauge just like in real life and the colors we shade it with. 

 

Yes, two different things but not unrelated.

[Anarker]

It's a shame playing a level 1 is so dull though; I still wish BioWare had made the 100 operations challenge allow your future promotions on that kit to start level 5 or something instead of just giving a banner.  It would have been a lot less tedious that way.

 

I'd been saying this for a while; if experience carried over to at least level 5 instead of going back to level 1 which is incredibly boring...people wouldn't have had to Mickey Mouse workarounds for the game that made it tedious. It also takes away a whole game in which your character can be working as intended! *** Devs, feel free to take note on this & modify accordingly (if anyone is still actually paying attention to us)  ***

Thus, the deviation of this post could've been totally avoided.

[Silversmurf]

Level 1 Saarebas isn't dull or boring

 

Treat level 1 games as a different kind of challenge.  It's not as bad as some people make it out to be.

[Anarker]

The consensus is...it's a different kind of boring.

[ThatBruhYouDK]

Level 1 Saarebas isn't dull or boring

Treat level 1 games as a different kind of challenge. It's not as bad as some people make it out to be.

I agree, I mean, taking a lvl 1 into NM is like a totally harder difficulty. Yes you only have two abilities but I forces you to play smart otherwise you will probably die..unless you are Rock or SpaceV3gan or one of those stupidly promoted people lol. Try a lvl 1 Reaver in NM, entirely doable and pretty easy compared to other lvl 1s.

[Proto]

dam Proto I fell asleep reading that crap

 

Cry me a river. Wavebend gave you a perfect Super Super TLDR.

 

 

Super Super TLDR:

 

Spoiler

Working as intended.

[Silversmurf]

If you are clever with Saarebas you do fine at level 1 with leap(s)

 

Face away from the enemy and moonwalk through them is fun on the flow.

 

Zoom in, adjust to moonwalk, jump on their heads! repeat..... or use to escape to relative safety... range attack .... then repeat.

 

Yes, Reaver can be done also.

[Anarker]

The problem is...there's 15 other characters besides the Saarebas & Reaver

[ThatBruhYouDK]

The problem is...there's 15 other characters besides the Saarebas & Reaver

Lego and Templar are doable because of Shield Wall, assassin because of stealth, silent sister because of guard and speed of attacks, Archer has explosive shot, hunter has fallback plan, Ele because of freeze and immolate. It is entirely doable (preferably with a team) to contribute as a lvl 1 in NM. It's not like they are defenseless...unless you are a lvl 1 AW, don't even try it xD

[Anarker]

Lego and Templar are doable because of Shield Wall, assassin because of stealth, silent sister because of guard and speed of attacks, Archer has explosive shot, hunter has fallback plan, Ele because of freeze and immolate. It is entirely doable (preferably with a team) to contribute as a lvl 1 in NM. It's not like they are defenseless...unless you are a lvl 1 AW, don't even try it xD

 

Thank you for that run down Capt. Obvious. lol j/k

 

My whole point here can be summed up in the immortal words of Chris Rock, "You can drive a car with your feet if you want to; it don't mean it's a good ******* idea!"

Not having to start at Lv.1 would eliminate the "workarounds"