172 réponses à ce sujet

[ThatBruhYouDK]

Thank you for that run down Capt. Obvious. lol j/k

My whole point here can be summed up in the immortal words of Chris Rock, "You can drive a car with your feet if you want to; it don't mean it's a good ******* idea!"
Not having to start at Lv.1 would eliminate the "workarounds"

Oh it wouldn't, I would still look for ways to get exp faster. But yes, it will probably stop some people from looking

[Silversmurf]

Not playing the game would solve all the problems of being level 1 

 

Playing the game means accepting it for what it is.

[Anarker]

Not playing the game would solve all the problems of being level 1 

 

Playing the game means accepting it for what it is.

 

Now that's just silly talk...and would also make every forum post null 'n void. 

Next

[ALTBOULI]

Legitimate questions:
 
Do people consider "spawn camping" an exploit? 
 
Do people consider "spawn milking" an exploit?
 
Before the Dragonslayer DLC and the introduction of FC, Snakebite, Martin and I usually just ran through matches as quickly as possible. We would compete for high score. We didn't care about what classes we played because the only doors we opened were freebies, and that was only if someone decided to stop and take the time to open it. Yes, Beerfish...we were dirty gold leechers. There was never a conscious effort to block spawns. We enjoyed the game-play that way and felt it was more engaging and fun.
 
I would occasionally get invited to groups that consisted of top 20 players. I quickly found out the game-play style we used was not considered optimal for EXP generation. The higher leaderboard players would remind me to stay behind certain points, not to rush mobs ect...They wanted as many mobs to spawn as possible, even if that meant standing around while 2-3 spawned at a time. The premise was more EXP and it cut down on loading times. Lets just say, I found it quite boring.
 
When FC became all the rage, Snakebite, Martin and I continued to play with the same style. Immediately, we all HATED Zone 2 and Zone 3. It always felt like we had to run back and forth to finish off one or two straggler mobs. Yall know what I'm talking about. That dog that's stuck in the wall across from the treasure door in Zone 2. Those last couple gibbering horrors that spawn on the opposite side of the bridge in Zone 3. Once you get to them and finish them off, two more have spawned back where you just came from. There was no "challenge" to running back and forth. Those last couple mobs posed no threat. After many many completions we all knew where we needed to be standing for the keys to drop once the mobs had been cleared. We never considered this an exploit, it was just our style of game-play. We didn't want to deal with the tedious trickle spawns. 
 
Whenever I would play in PUGS they would turtle up. Even leaderboard EXP groups would sit in rooms or at the bottom of staircases and just wait for mobs to trickle to their doom. Their strategy was to aggro the whole map, run to a choke point and make sure everything funneled to its death. I remember playing with a BSNer and his group. I ended up dying to the first couple spawns solo because I engaged them alone and didn't realize till after that the rest of the group had gone straight into the treasure room and was waiting at the bottom of the ladders while one of the members had gone up, opened the door to aggro the last spawn and dropped back down the ladder. They were milking Zone 1...I had never been part of a group that did that. Apparently it was common practice. They then did this in Zone 2 at the ladders, in Zone 3 at the ladders and again in Zone 4 in the usual "camp" room. The match took forever and was played at an extremely slow-pace. But, we completed and received a large amount of EXP. 
 
Then, Snakebite had his Thunderdome with Drasca. Drasca was embarrassed. Which, to be honest. I was certain would happen. I didn't need to see Drasca's gameplay. I had played with Snakebite enough to know that he was quite good at speed runs. Shoot, its how we played on a regular basis. I even bet six of my superb heal on kill rings that he would win. In the end, Drasca accused Snakebite of spawn-camping and claimed spawn-camping was the only reason he had been beaten so handily. Now, that claim was absurd. Anyone who understood spawn mechanics would know that it's impossible to spawn camp when solo. Even before they changed the spawn radius the spawn points were too spread out to block all of them at once when solo. You had to deal with the trickle spawn no matter what. Because of this, Snakebite and I decided to have some fun and see how quickly we could duo Perilous. You only needed two people at the time. We ended up doing quite well. I posted it to BSN and Drasca again called it spawn-camping. Ever since, that dirty word has been associated with our preferred style of play.
 
Anyway, Nightmare and the Hakkon weapons were introduced. As a result, quite a few of the leaderboard players who weren't too fond of our playstyle previously were now inviting us to games regularly. Quicker completions now outweighed experience. I'm sure many groups were playing similarly to us long before any videos were posted, but now more and more players were using the "rush" style to better their odds at the Hakkon weapons. This trend continued, and the devs decided they needed to increase the spawn radius, which didn't bother us at all. Rushing the map was still perfectly doable. After a while the majority of the organized groups had most their Hakkon weapons and returned to farming EXP and "milking spawns."
 
I consider both methods playing the game as it's intended to be played. Just two different methods of completing a match. Spawn milking takes longer but allows for enough downtime that getting the doors doesn't hinder completion time and it results in much more experience per completion. Rushing the map results in less exp but faster completions and as a result more objective completions as well as challenge completions. The "rush" method became more appealing when the dragon gated items were introduced and completions rewarded the best weapons in the game. 
 
TLDR: 
 
IMO spawn-camping and spawn-milking are not exploits. They are preferred game-play styles and or strategies. These styles and or strategies are in no way comparable to the exploit shown in the video of this thread. Neither style or strategy involves using host migrations to trick the game into manufacturing 4X EXP or extreme damage increases. Rather, "spawn camping" and "spawn milking" are varying styles of play that involve conscious character positioning within the game through varying strategies.
 
Before the 4X EXP glitch, everyone was on an even playing field. Sure there were tricks or mechanics that weren't "working as intended" that people used in advantageous ways. I never used the level 20 re-enter technique. Didn't even know it existed. From what I've been told it was annoying. You had to wait for the player to leave, rejoin ect...really killed the immersion. Fact of the matter is, everyone was free to use them. There were no threats from the developers. The fact that Bioware threatened recourse for the EXP glitch and as a result some people used it and others didn't was what "broke" the leaderboards. Just because that one circumstance ruined the leaderboard, doesn't mean we should generalize and call any in-game tactic that may be advantageous unethical.
 
Super TLDR:
 
Increasing damage by almost 10X normal amounts through host migrations or whatever other trickery is used to create this seems far more unintended than "spawn camping" or "spawn milking."

Thats an awfully long post just to admit your a scrub

[Proto]

 

[Archaeologist]

*Gasp*

[Snakebite]

 

Still waiting for a video titled "Insane Reaver Damage" showing some nice strong Dragon Rage hits while at high health.

 

 

...Still waiting...

 

Still waiting.

 

You know, it's too bad the Reaver already uses the strongest type of weapon in the game, otherwise D could just glitch it to carry a stronger weapon and use that as proof without telling us what he was doing.

[MaceWindusLightsaber]

I love Proto's and Snakebite's trademarked spawncamp speedruns, it made grinding for hakkon weapons faster and fun instead of the usual "everyone huddle up in a room now."

[Drasca]

I love Proto's and Snakebite's trademarked spawncamp speedruns, it made grinding for hakkon weapons faster and fun instead of the usual "everyone huddle up in a room now."

 

Except it didn't actually help their actual drop rate very much given how long it took for SB to get a Hakkon's GS. I know Piffle was in the same predicament, having missed the initial day's drop rate, and ran hundreds of spawn camp runs with the scrub lords, but didn't get squat until she solo'ed NM herself (outside of spawn camping).

 

Unfortunately there isn't enough evidence to conclusively determine whether spawn camping speed run groups had a lower drop rate or not-- but those two certainly got weapons a lot later than everyone else. I would not be suprised by some anti-speed run coding built into the drop rate though given other games are capable of controlling drop rates.

 

Some exploits don't pay out. Spawn camping FC doesn't seem to be worth it for the item drops, and is certainly worse gold-wise vs old maps, as there's just more gold overall on old maps and gold / time too.

 

Killing stuff is way more fun than spawn camping.

[ThatBruhYouDK]

Except it didn't actually help their actual drop rate very much given how long it took for SB to get a Hakkon's GS. I know Piffle was in the same predicament, having missed the initial day's drop rate, and ran hundreds of spawn camp runs with the scrub lords, but didn't get squat until she solo'ed NM herself (outside of spawn camping).

Unfortunately there isn't enough evidence to conclusively determine whether spawn camping speed run groups had a lower drop rate or not-- but those two certainly got weapons a lot later than everyone else. I would not be suprised by some anti-speed run coding built into the drop rate though given other games are capable of controlling drop rates.

Some exploits don't pay out. Spawn camping FC doesn't seem to be worth it for the item drops, and is certainly worse gold-wise vs old maps, as there's just more gold overall on old maps and gold / time too.

Killing stuff is way more fun than spawn camping.

I was right in Piffles boat. And I would love to believe that they coded something like that in the game but...lets be honest, I doubt they took the time to do that considering there was many other things needed to be fixed...but then again, this is BIOWARE so if it fucks with people then it was probably done...I agree with this but I do a mix of both...I can't stand trickle spawns

[Proto]

Worked great for me. Had all of mine within about 96 Hours. And 6 master stamulets a week after that. I have all the Descent items.

Martin had all of his in a week. Courtneh, Sulaco, and a ton of other players got all of them quickly. Kissraven got 3 in an hour.

Snakebite just got trolled. Worked out for Xbone community. Lots of PUGs running around with all of them.

You're hilarious. Snakebite and Piffle got unlucky with a 2% drop chance. They did lots of quick runs, they must have coded in something. Seriously? You really think they'd spend time doing that? Gimme a break. Use some common sense and consider the sample size before claiming nonsense.

PS. We joked about Luke purposely messing with Snakebite's account quite often.

[Snakebite]

Killing stuff is way more fun than spawn camping.

 

Yep.  I just love killing the slow trickle of 2 mobs at a time for a couple of minutes to finish off every zone.  Tons of fun.

[Drasca]

Worked great for me. Had all of mine within about 96 Hours. And 6 master stamulets a week after that. I have all the Descent items.

Martin had all of his in a week. Courtneh, Sulaco, and a ton of other players got all of them quickly. Kissraven got 3 in an hour.

 

Was that before or after the drop rate change though? Realistically even 10 data plot points are insignificant given the magnitude of the drop rate. The most likely case for individuals is just sometimes its better to be lucky than good-- such as all the noobs that got hakkons in my game on their first or second kill while it was several dozen before I got any.

 

 

..but then again, this is BIOWARE so if it fucks with people then it was probably done...I agree with this but I do a mix of both...I can't stand trickle spawns

 

Yeah I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility. Unfortunately we'll never know without server code access and lots of testing.

 

Avoid the spawn points all together after aggro'ing the entire map if you hate trickle spawns. That means getting the max spawn per time rather than trickle. Its when you spawn camp that it trickles.

[Proto]

Was that before or after the drop rate change though? 

 

I got three before the drop rate was changed. Keep in mind it was actually more difficult to get the first three pre-change. Static 5% < New 15%/7%/5%. 

 

After the change to the 4th/5th item being 2%, I had both within 24 hours.

 

It should take, on average, around 140 runs to get all 5 at the current drop-rate. Obviously, as you have pointed out in the Level 27 item discussion, results will vary widely.

 

 

Realistically even 10 data plot points are insignificant given the magnitude of the drop rate.

 

Right, that was my point when I bashed your "omg spawn-camping doesn't pay off because coding was put in to prevent drops" BS. Why would you make such a nonsensical claim based off the experience of two individuals? For every individual that got trolled and had to do 500+ runs, there was another who got all of theirs in well under 100. That is how RNG works. 

 

 

The most likely case for individuals is just sometimes its better to be lucky than good-- such as all the noobs that got hakkons in my game on their first or second kill while it was several dozen before I got any.

 

I don't even know how to respond to this. There is no skill involved in RNG, other than increasing the rate of completions. Spawn-camping is one way of doing that. 

 

It's all luck. Being "good" just increases opportunity.

 

Avoid the spawn points all together after aggro'ing the entire map if you hate trickle spawns. That means getting the max spawn per time rather than trickle. 

 

You mean go spawn-milk? Trickle spawns happen during all styles that don't involve spawn-camping. Trickle spawns happen when there are no enemies left to be killed on the map yet the amount of enemies required to drop the key hasn't been met. As a result, the game will spawn in more at a spawn point that isn't blocked.

 

If you spawn-milk they will all funnel to you, wherever you decide to turtle. Turtling is the same as "avoid the spawns" and results in the mobs doing the legwork for you. They still trickle, you just wait on them instead of moving towards them. No cut-down on time. Just more EXP.

 

 

 

Its when you spawn camp that it trickles.

 

Just stop. It's quite obvious you still have no idea how spawn mechanics work. The point of spawn-camping is to prevent trickle spawns by blocking the spawn points, preventing the trickle. Spawn-camping stops the trickle spawns.

 

Actually fighting the mobs in the open as a team, killing them faster than they can spawn causes trickle-spawns. You end up having to run back and forth killing 2-3 at a time.

[Beerfish]

Me and the people I have played FC Nightmare with on rare occasions, post match.

 

[Drasca]

Actually fighting the mobs in the open as a team, killing them faster than they can spawn causes trickle-spawns. You end up having to run back and forth killing 2-3 at a time.

 

ROFL, yeah no. You have no clue wtf do to outside of spawn camping. ROFL. Have fun in your little world. I'm rather glad you're backwards. We'll just keep on succeeding over here. You keep on doing what you want to do, the ignorant and backwards way.

 

Bruh should actually know what I'm referring to, since he's actually played with me and seen how I handle things-- and also has a modicum of intelligence to see beyond his own nose once in a while.

[ThatBruhYouDK]

ROFL, yeah no. You have no clue wtf do to outside of spawn camping. ROFL. Have fun in your little world. I'm rather glad you're backwards. We'll just keep on succeeding over here. You keep on doing what you want to do, the ignorant and backwards way.

Bruh should actually know what I'm referring to, since he's actually played with me and seen how I handle things-- and also has a modicum of intelligence to see beyond his own nose once in a while.

I don't want to get dragged into this but I will. I do a little bit of both I don't block the whole map, I enjoy getting exp but the way I do it is a little bit of both your ways. I fight until I notice spawns starting to slow then I block to completely cut them off (not by myself mind you with a full team to do it right, otherwise I fight the max spawns). This way I can get runs that are both fast and exp/hour efficient.

[Proto]

As for exploits, I personally consider spawn camping an exploit, but until recently I had though a necessary one to perform because teammates cannot progress fast enough to make up the gap in gear, promotes and skill to complete otherwise. I no longer think that spawn camping is necessary because I can arm them.

 

Ok. So you're succeeding so well that you need to arm your teammates through the use of an exploit that gives them 10X damage. Yeah, you keep doing you over there buddy. 

 

ROFL, yeah no. You have no clue wtf do to outside of spawn camping. ROFL. Have fun in your little world. I'm rather glad you're backwards. We'll just keep on succeeding over here. You keep on doing what you want to do, the ignorant and backwards way.

 

Bruh should actually know what I'm referring to, since he's actually played with me and seen how I handle things-- and also has a modicum of intelligence to see beyond his own nose once in a while.

 

You are delusional. 

[Drasca]

otherwise I fight the max spawns

 

This ^

 

If there are only a few spawns left, its time to go gold hunting / treasure room raiding -- if our greedy selves haven't been doing that instead of fighting to begin with.

 

Spawn camping is dumb and counter to the design of the game. The spawn safe radius was only put in place to make the game easier for players. I very much preferred when they had a very small radius, letting enemies spawn almost on top of the player. That made the game more interesting. Thought you were safe... guess again. Rekt.

[Proto]

I've already stated my opinion on how I would prefer spawns be handled. Put everything that is supposed to spawn on the map at the start of the zone.

 

Problem solved. Zone 4 host migrations are a perfect example. Love it when that happens.

 

I don't want to get dragged into this but I will. I do a little bit of both I don't block the whole map, I enjoy getting exp but the way I do it is a little bit of both your ways. I fight until I notice spawns starting to slow then I block to completely cut them off (not by myself mind you with a full team to do it right, otherwise I fight the max spawns). This way I can get runs that are both fast and exp/hour efficient.

 

 

This ^

 

Everyone does a little bit of both when they do it. For some reason Drasca must think everyone runs to the points with a stealth character and just sits on them. That wasn't something we practiced. We do pretty much what you described Bruh, unless of course we're trying to get as fast a time as possible for a video or something.

[ThatBruhYouDK]

I've already stated my opinion on how I would prefer spawns be handled. Put everything that is supposed to spawn on the map at the start of the zone.

Problem solved. Zone 4 host migrations are a perfect example. Love it when that happens.




Everyone does a little bit of both when they do it. For some reason Drasca must think everyone runs to the points with a stealth character and just sits on them. That wasn't something we practiced. We do pretty much what you described Bruh, unless of course we're trying to get as fast a time as possible for a video or something.

I will go flank attack stealth (infinite duration) to troll Piffle KMeeg or Rock with mobsor Guardians

[ALTBOULI]

You are delusional.

/Thread

[Drasca]

I will go flank attack stealth (infinite duration) to troll Piffle KMeeg or Rock with mobsor Guardians

 

How does this bother them at all? They have enough promotes that attacks barely tickle them. . . plus, you only need to stealth once. Really, you need to consider being off-host, then lee-roy jenkins suicide to the fade until the 'enemies have been made stronger' has maxed out. It'll only take 20+ deaths (I don't know what the limit is.. but it stacks and is pretty darn high), and each time the enemies will hit consecutively harder.

 

Oh I died... I'm sorry, let me rejoin... oh I died again... The new meta for challenge is finding out how many teammates can fade out, rejoin and fade out again, before you die.

 

During druffalo faction weekend, we were chasing each other around, and luring / kill-helping exploding nugs to knock each other over. One person had low promotes and a particularly cowardly nature. We ended up chasing each other around the map.

[ThatBruhYouDK]

How does this bother them at all? They have enough promotes that attacks barely tickle them. . . plus, you only need to stealth once. Really, you need to consider being off-host, then lee-roy jenkins suicide to the fade until the 'enemies have been made stronger' has maxed out. It'll only take 20+ deaths (I don't know what the limit is.. but it stacks and is pretty darn high), and each time the enemies will hit consecutively harder.

Oh I died... I'm sorry, let me rejoin... oh I died again... The new meta for challenge is finding out how many teammates can fade out, rejoin and fade out again, before you die.

During druffalo faction weekend, we were chasing each other around, and luring / kill-helping exploding nugs to knock each other over. One person had low promotes and a particularly cowardly nature. We ended up chasing each other around the map.

You are discounting the times that it was vents...those lightening mages dots stack way too hard even take KMeeg out

[Snakebite]

I don't want to get dragged into this but I will. I do a little bit of both I don't block the whole map, I enjoy getting exp but the way I do it is a little bit of both your ways. I fight until I notice spawns starting to slow then I block to completely cut them off (not by myself mind you with a full team to do it right, otherwise I fight the max spawns). This way I can get runs that are both fast and exp/hour efficient.

 

That's exactly how I do it.  Anyone that says spawns don't slow down are not killing very quickly.  The only reason to decide to block the spawns from the start is to get a fast completion while trying to get items from the dragon or if you are specifically trying to speedrun for a good time.

 

I don't blame D for thinking we do that all the time, because most of the gameplay he has seen from either Proto or I have us doing this.  He assumes that our example of how it is done is how we always do it.  Definitely not the case.