172 réponses à ce sujet

[TheLeakestWink]

Otherwise, it doesn't matter if it's intentional (design) or not. If the "mistake" makes its way into production , then it becomes a feature, a.k.a an use case for the end-user.

 

The user base discovering bugs or exploits post-production is extremely common, and should never be written off as "features." The error comes from not correcting them in a timely manner, allowing (forcing, in some cases) them to be abused or tolerated as "features." No-one would be satisfied with calling the key glitch a feature, so why would this instance be different? Because it benefits the player? That's not a valid reason.

[Snakebite]

The user base discovering bugs or exploits post-production is extremely common, and should never be written off as "features." The error comes from not correcting them in a timely manner, allowing (forcing, in some cases) them to be abused or tolerated as "features." No-one would be satisfied with calling the key glitch a feature, so why would this instance be different? Because it benefits the player? That's not a valid reason.

 

Now that support has ended, and these "bugs" or "exploits" as you call them can not be fixed, they are features.  This is clearly how the development team planned it.  The reason they never "corrected" these "exploits" is because they secretly wanted them to be in the game, not because they didn't know about their existence. 

[Drasca]

The user base discovering bugs or exploits post-production is extremely common, and should never be written off as "features."

 

Every speedrun ever says otherwise.

[TheLeakestWink]

Every speedrun ever says otherwise.

 

Are you referrring to spawn-blocking/camping? That's a known tactic in other games that precede Dragon Age, and hardly classifies as an exploit.

[Drasca]

Are you referrring to

 

I'm referring to EVERY speed run across all games. If you're not familiar with the speed run community, go here:

 

http://speeddemosarchive.com/

 

and especially the FAQ:
http://speeddemosarc...ang/faq_en.html

 

You have absolutely no clue how big that culture is or what it represents. There's plenty of people hating on them too.

 

You can choose to wallow in your ignorance, or open your eyes to something more. Your choice.

[TheLeakestWink]

You have absolutely no clue how big that culture is or what it represents.

 

You have absolutely no clue what I have a clue about.

 

I'm talking about Dragon Age, here on the Dragon Age forum. Which speedrun exploit in Dragon Age were you referring to?

[DanakV]

You have absolutely no clue what I have a clue about.

 

I'm talking about Dragon Age, here on the Dragon Age forum. Which speedrun exploit in Dragon Age were you referring to?

 

Don't mind him, he's just trolling.  I've encountered him in-game and on voice chat & can assure you that he is much too intelligent to believe some of the things he posts.  Sometimes it can be tough to tell when he's being genuine and when he's just messing with people.

[Drasca]

You have absolutely no clue what I have a clue about.

 

I'm talking about Dragon Age, here on the Dragon Age forum. Which speedrun exploit in Dragon Age were you referring to?

 

Yep, remaining small minded and ignorant is your choice. So be it.

[Wavebend]

The user base discovering bugs or exploits post-production is extremely common, and should never be written off as "features." The error comes from not correcting them in a timely manner, allowing (forcing, in some cases) them to be abused or tolerated as "features." No-one would be satisfied with calling the key glitch a feature, so why would this instance be different? Because it benefits the player? That's not a valid reason.

 

All I said was that you can't pinpoint bugs or exploits unless the creators define and share knowledge (ingame / by devs / or via other means) about how a functionality should work. The key glitch is a bug because a key must drop to progress once you defeat all enemies (text knowledge, codex description, devs). Disruption Field stopping arrows was an exploit, because it wasn't working as described in the tooltip (text knowledge) and because it made the game easier.

 

I'm not defending Drasca. From this perspective, if you can find official information that states that a character's output damage is based off its currently equipped main-hand weapon damage, (pretty sure you'll find this somewhere), then with the feature now explicitly described, then what is depicted in OP is an exploit.

[Drasca]

All I said was that you can't pinpoint bugs or exploits unless the creators define and share knowledge 

 

From this perspective, if you can find official information

 

Which, by your very definition, you won't, because the devs don't and have stopped working on the game. The key bug was officially one when the devs announced it so. DF stopping arrows had no such backing, and the tooltips are an unreliable narrator.

 

Just because something probably should be there, like accurate tooltips from day 1 (or pots that aren't mini-bosses), doesn't mean it is.

[Snakebite]

I'm referring to EVERY speed run across all games. If you're not familiar with the speed run community, go here:

 

http://speeddemosarchive.com/

 

and especially the FAQ:
http://speeddemosarc...ang/faq_en.html

 

You have absolutely no clue how big that culture is or what it represents. There's plenty of people hating on them too.

 

You can choose to wallow in your ignorance, or open your eyes to something more. Your choice.

 

Hold on.  You are defending using exploits in speedruns?  Didn't you accuse me (rather poorly, I might add) of using an exploit (which I didn't use) in the speedrun challenge you issued me in June?  And that that invalidated my time?  And that I needed to tell everyone that I cheated?  No?  I swear, I remember that happening.

 

 

I'm not defending Drasca. From this perspective, if you can find official information that states that a character's output damage is based off its currently equipped main-hand weapon damage, (pretty sure you'll find this somewhere), then with the feature now explicitly described, then what is depicted in OP is an exploit.

 

What, you mean like how the first thing in the damage formula is weapon damage?  No, the formula never explicitly states that "weapon damage" is taken from the weapon you currently have equipped, but common sense should be enough for anyone to come to that conclusion.

 

[WeaponDmg * (1 + CritDmg%) * (1 + FlankDmg%) * (1 + BarrierDmg%) * (1 + GuardDmg%) - Armor *(1 - ArmorPen%)] * (1 + Attk%) * AbilityMultiplier%

 

When you can equip a weapon that clearly states that it is restricted to a warrior, and equip it on a mage...  well, that's not working as intended.  It doesn't get clearer than that.

[Wavebend]

What, you mean like how the first thing in the damage formula is weapon damage?  No, the formula never explicitly states that "weapon damage" is taken from the weapon you currently have equipped, but common sense should be enough for anyone to come to that conclusion.

 

You can't expect everyone to use common sense (semi-trolling, but I'm serious), and common sense isn't always right.

[Snakebite]

You can't expect everyone to use common sense (semi-trolling, but I'm serious), and common sense isn't always right.

 

It doesn't matter that it isn't always right, because in this case it is.

[Wavebend]

It doesn't matter that it isn't always right, because in this case it is.

 

Subjective. And as I said, you can't use common sense as an argument, it's a fallacy. Everyone has a different perspective of what "common sense" is

[TheLeakestWink]

You can't expect everyone to use common sense (semi-trolling, but I'm serious)

 

"Weapon" referring to the weapon currently equipped by the character doesn't require common sense (ie any sort of deductive or inductive reasoning), it's simply an explicit statement of the meaning of the word weapon. That is to say, a weapon that is not wielded is not a weapon, if you follow me.

[Snakebite]

Subjective. And as I said, you can't use common sense as an argument, it's a fallacy. Everyone has a different perspective of what "common sense" is

 

What is not subjective is that weapon damage is taken from the currently held weapon (main-hand if you are wielding daggers).  Sure, my perception of that being common sense is subjective, but that is not.  It is easy enough to verify by running a few tests with the only variable being base damage of your weapon.

[Wavebend]

What is not subjective is that weapon damage is taken from the currently held weapon (main-hand if you are wielding daggers).

 

Which is why you can now say that what Drasca demo'ed is an exploit.

[DanakV]

Subjective. And as I said, you can't use common sense as an argument, it's a fallacy. Everyone has a different perspective of what "common sense" is

 

"Time" is subjective and can vary from perspective to perspective yet as a society it is still useful as a measurement due to the common acceptance of what it means.  

 

I understand where you're coming from on this, Wavebend, but we could have a lengthy (and possibly interesting) discussion regarding the semantics without ever addressing the underlying issue.  I respect the desire to avoid the slippery slope and you (and Drasca) are absolutely correct in the letter of what you say.  However it is still downright farcical for Drasca to say that manipulating the host into using a weapon that is not currently equipped and cannot by explicit game definition possibly be equipped by the played character might reasonably have been an intended result of the software.

 

No judgment about the usage of said glitch, but every single one of us knows what it really is.  Everything else is just a matter of rationalizations and semantics.

[Drasca]

(and Drasca) are absolutely correct in the letter of what you say. 

 

This is pretty much the only true and useful statement you have here. The rest is irrelevant noise, for aforementioned reasons. Here's a relevation you may not have come to fully realize yet: The game itself is a farce. I have no illusions otherwise.

 

Like wavebend, I've gone down the rabbit hole, seen how things really operate, and I no longer care about illusionary ideas like intent.

[JiaJM98]

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[Tops-schoki]

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