The Qunari looked too damn pretty in this game. If there was one thing DA2 certainly did right it was the Qunari designs.
From this
To this:
Somebody had to be hit with the "What is THAT?!" stick. In DAO it was the orangutans female dwarves, in DAII it was the darkspawn and the elves, now it's the qunari turning babyface.
Tune in next game to find out who fell from the ugly tree this time!
There's no room for choice. Ignoring the fact that the very essence of the Qun is about not having a choice in the way we understand it, the actual "choice" is between complete apostacy or obedience, with nothing in between. The IB's whole story is about how the Qun struggles with the very practical reality that it's binary doesn't work work as intended, but there's no middle ground for the Qun itself.
I just want to point it that it is wrong. Choices are paramount in the Qun. What it takes way is not the possibility to make a choice, but the ability to makes excuses to pretend that one didn't make a choice.
I liked my F!Qunari's appearance, but I found the background somewhat dull and disconnected from the game. You didn't even really get anything interesting with Bull and the Qunari that I can recall.
You're missing the point. If you find a PC in the same situation as a Sten or IB, you're totally and completely isolated from the Qun. Sten was the sole Qunari - in the sense of proper follower of the Qun - in all of Ferelden who wasn't a spy. What you're talking about is an entire game exclusively based around being a Qunari - special scenes, special "approval" metres, that all goes back to a whole game set around being a Qunari.
There's no room for choice. Ignoring the fact that the very essence of the Qun is about not having a choice in the way we understand it, the actual "choice" is between complete apostacy or obedience, with nothing in between. The IB's whole story is about how the Qun struggles with the very practical reality that it's binary doesn't work work as intended, but there's no middle ground for the Qun itself.
I have to disagree again. Qunari loyal to the Qun are bound by it regardless of the fact that they are no longer in Qunari lands. Sten and IB are both still bound by the qun while on assignment beyond Par Vollen and Seheron. That is why there is conflict in IB's quest. I do agree though that the overall 'big choice' is between apostasy and obedience. However, it seems to me that such a choice is the result of a multitude of other choices, saving of course a 'traumatic' event causing one to abandon the Qun. In the case of IB, the reason he has to face the choice between apostasy and obedience is because of the choices he has made with and before the chargers. IB even says "The Qun demanded it." if you sacrifice the chargers, signalling that he is bound by the Qun despite being in Ferelden.
The dialogue options for the pc would be very different than what we are used to for sure. Hell, they would likely be different between when the pc is in Qunari lands, and when they are abroad. I still think it is possible, however. Yes a game of this type would certainly be Qunari centric, probably exclusively Qunari or converts, but since in my mind they are the most interesting culture in the DA universe, I personally would love to see that as a game.
Why do people always blame the game for their lack of skill at character creation?
Because the hair for the Qunari in the CC looks like someone took a dump on their head? 
I just want to point it that it is wrong. Choices are paramount in the Qun. What it takes way is not the possibility to make a choice, but the ability to makes excuses to pretend that one didn't make a choice.
No. The "choices" the Qun talks about isn't a choice in the way we colloquially use that word. There's only one choice in the Qun: to accept your role or refuse it.
I have to disagree again. Qunari loyal to the Qun are bound by it regardless of the fact that they are no longer in Qunari lands. Sten and IB are both still bound by the qun while on assignment beyond Par Vollen and Seheron. That is why there is conflict in IB's quest. I do agree though that the overall 'big choice' is between apostasy and obedience. However, it seems to me that such a choice is the result of a multitude of other choices, saving of course a 'traumatic' event causing one to abandon the Qun. In the case of IB, the reason he has to face the choice between apostasy and obedience is because of the choices he has made with and before the chargers. IB even says "The Qun demanded it." if you sacrifice the chargers, signalling that he is bound by the Qun despite being in Ferelden.
The dialogue options for the pc would be very different than what we are used to for sure. Hell, they would likely be different between when the pc is in Qunari lands, and when they are abroad. I still think it is possible, however. Yes a game of this type would certainly be Qunari centric, probably exclusively Qunari or converts, but since in my mind they are the most interesting culture in the DA universe, I personally would love to see that as a game.
Qunari aren't "loyal" to the Qun. They are defined by the Qun. You can't separate between them. You've misunderstood the IB's quest, because it wasn't about a "traumatic" choice. It was even about a choice. It was about the pointlessness of the conflict he saw. But I don't want to derail the thread.
There's no way to make a protagonist like Sten without dedicating the whole game to being a Qunari. The IB isn't an example here, because he doesn't actually talk or behave much like a Qunari, which is a central part of his narrative arc. The game isn't just Qunari centric - there's no real meaningful overlap between the non-Qunari and Qunari PC in this scenario.
Qunari aren't "loyal" to the Qun. They are defined by the Qun. You can't separate between them. You've misunderstood the IB's quest, because it wasn't about a "traumatic" choice. It was even about a choice. It was about the pointlessness of the conflict he saw. But I don't want to derail the thread.
There's no way to make a protagonist like Sten without dedicating the whole game to being a Qunari. The IB isn't an example here, because he doesn't actually talk or behave much like a Qunari, which is a central part of his narrative arc. The game isn't just Qunari centric - there's no real meaningful overlap between the non-Qunari and Qunari PC in this scenario.
Alright I'll admit loyal was a poor choice of words there, as one is only a Qunari if they live under it. Literally, Qunari means " People of the Qun". Fair point. I suppose I meant something more like a dutiful Qunari. However, Iron bull does serve as an example here. Both he and Sten are Qunari, yet their personalities are vastly different. That seems to indicate that in fact there is room for different play styles and choices. The fact that IB doesn't really act or talk like a Qunari, does not in any way diminish the fact that he is still Qunari. In fact it proves my point about varying play styles and choices. It could be argued that Bull is less dutiful perhaps than Sten, hence Gatt had to convince the other Ben-Hassrath that Bull was still Qunari. Where as I find it hard to believe that anyone questioned Sten's activities (especially since he became the Arishok). If this is the case then I can see no reason why one could not play as a 'Sten' then as a 'Bull' styled Qunari.
The more I think of it the more I have to agree that there would not be a lot of overlap between Qunari and Non-Qunari, as each would essentially play as a different game. In the end, I would be totally fine with playing a Qunari exclusive game. There is a lot of room for different play styles.
The fact that IB doesn't really act or talk like a Qunari, does not in any way diminish the fact that he is still Qunari.
... It kind of does. Doubly so for a Player Character that operates in the same way.
Empty lip service with none of the commitment! Feels great to finally play a real Qunari.
Never played Qunari since the hair is atrocious. The race just seems tacked on in DAI, hopefully in the next game we get actually Qunari(you know the ones we see in the concept arts?)
I want to make one akin to these designs.
Maybe then ill play something other than Human.
I was also disappointed with my inability to headbutt people and things.
Alright I'll admit loyal was a poor choice of words there, as one is only a Qunari if they live under it. Literally, Qunari means " People of the Qun". Fair point. I suppose I meant something more like a dutiful Qunari. However, Iron bull does serve as an example here. Both he and Sten are Qunari, yet their personalities are vastly different. That seems to indicate that in fact there is room for different play styles and choices. The fact that IB doesn't really act or talk like a Qunari, does not in any way diminish the fact that he is still Qunari. In fact it proves my point about varying play styles and choices. It could be argued that Bull is less dutiful perhaps than Sten, hence Gatt had to convince the other Ben-Hassrath that Bull was still Qunari. Where as I find it hard to believe that anyone questioned Sten's activities (especially since he became the Arishok). If this is the case then I can see no reason why one could not play as a 'Sten' then as a 'Bull' styled Qunari.
The more I think of it the more I have to agree that there would not be a lot of overlap between Qunari and Non-Qunari, as each would essentially play as a different game. In the end, I would be totally fine with playing a Qunari exclusive game. There is a lot of room for different play styles.
Here's the thing with the IB: he's on the border of flunking out of the Qun when we meet him. Listen to him talk about the Qun, vs. Sten. The inevitable invasion isn't a good thing ™ to him - it's a far off event which he largely hopes won't come about in his lifetime. It's not that the IB isn't dutiful - it's that he's very far gone when it comes to being a Qunari. An "IB" style Qunari would be someone who's all but a Tal-Vasoth, requiring a traumatic event (and outside interference!) to be convinced to go back into the fold. Which goes back to my point about being, essential, an apostate to the Qun.
Thematically, look at the people the IB's got in the Charges: a group of outcasts, none of whom fit within their particular society or social order. He's already gathered a group of "Tal-Vasoth" in all-but-name. That's why his personal quest (Demand of the Qun) is all about his choosing between his established culture and his rag-tag band of outcasts.
Here's the thing with the IB: he's on the border of flunking out of the Qun when we meet him. Listen to him talk about the Qun, vs. Sten. The inevitable invasion isn't a good thing ™ to him - it's a far off event which he largely hopes won't come about in his lifetime. It's not that the IB isn't dutiful - it's that he's very far gone when it comes to being a Qunari. An "IB" style Qunari would be someone who's all but a Tal-Vasoth, requiring a traumatic event (and outside interference!) to be convinced to go back into the fold. Which goes back to my point about being, essential, an apostate to the Qun.
Thematically, look at the people the IB's got in the Charges: a group of outcasts, none of whom fit within their particular society or social order. He's already gathered a group of "Tal-Vasoth" in all-but-name. That's why his personal quest (Demand of the Qun) is all about his choosing between his established culture and his rag-tag band of outcasts.
I completely agree here. So in my ideal/never going to happen DA 4, we can easily conceive of at least three types of character arcs:
1) The Ideal Qunari (Sten)
2) The Troubled Qunari (Bull)
3) The Fallen Qunari (become Tal-Vashoth, though not sure how well that would play out. Except perhaps random encounters with Qunari hunting you.).
And all the degrees between each. So a game as the Qunari is viable from an RP perspective.
Still, you were right originally, not a lot of room for other races. Except as converts.
I was also disappointed with my inability to headbutt people and things.
I also noted there was no Krogan in this game.
And that's always a problem. In any game.
I also noted there was no Krogan in this game.
And that's always a problem. In any game.
No. The "choices" the Qun talks about isn't a choice in the way we colloquially use that word. There's only one choice in the Qun: to accept your role or refuse it.
Wrong again. The choices in the Qun are just like they are in the other cultures of Thedas and our world. One makes choices, either in is station (a baker makes baker's choices) or they make choices to better their station (a baker can make the choice to perfect himself in baking and other works, which will certainly lead to him gaining a better station, just like a Sten can become an Arishok through his choices and actions, and an Arishok can be demoted for the choices he makes). The belief that the Qun only offer binary solution is a fallacy, born out of a deep incomprehension of what the Qun is.
Takes Iron Bull as an example. Is storyline is the epitome of what choice is for the Qunari : he can choose to save the Chargers or to let them die. It is a choice he made, since he could refuse to do as the Inquisitor urges him to do. But he made the choice to do as the Inquisitor said, because he couldn't trust is own judgement. From this first choice, there is a bifurcation :
-Bull saves the Chargers. he cease to be a Qunari. He is now alone, bereft of a culture, or anything to belong beyond the Chargers and the Inquisition. It obviously hurts him, but he accepts it because it is a choice he made and he follow this choice to its conclusion, being that he can't ever see again the Tamassran he loves so much and who was basically his mother. We see again a conscious choice from Bull in Trespasser when he reject the possibility of being accepted again in the Qun that the Viddasala offers him. He has rejected it once, now he must wander Thedas as a Tal-Vashoth.
-Bull let the Chargers die, and he becomes Hissrad again. Then he made the choice to stay with the Qun, whatever the cost. He is deeply affected by the loss of the Chargers, but the pain does not prevent him from accomplishing his duties and missions. He go as was intended and when the Qun call for him against the Inquisitor, he sides with the Qun, fully knowing that he would probably die. If he feel no pain at this moment, then it is clearly because he has accepted such possibility long ago. It is the consequence of a choice he made (no matter what Solas, the worst judge ever when it comes to modern Thedas as a whole and the Qunari in particular) and he has to accept it.
Another example would be Sten in DA:O. When he killed the farmers as he awoke without his sword, nothing was preventing him from fleeing to search his sword. Had he found it alone, then he could have returned to Par Vollen and nobody would have been the wiser. But he doesn't. He makes the choice to stay and be captured without resisting his arrest. And when the Warden get back his sword, he makes the choice to stay with him/her when he could have left again at this moment, his honour restored. Those are choices.
Even Ketojan makes choices. It is him who have chosen to help Hawke when the latter was returning him to the Qunari. It was Ketojan who made the choice to not attack Hawke if the latter refused to let the Arvaarad get the Saarebas back. And it is Ketojan who had chosen to return to the Qun, fully knowing what fate awaited him. And it is him, once again, who kill himself, believing that it is the better choice.
And if the Qunari are wrong and evil because they make choices based on the Qun, a philosophy they see as leading to a better and brighter future for all, then are we not all, IRL, guilty of the same "false" choices ? After all, we all makes choices based on what benefit us, often times we act upon beliefs and creeds, and if our choices are bad for the rest of the world and the people around it, we often do them again while trying to escape their bad consequences for us only. So which is the true choice : the one were you always have to suffer the consequences of your actions, ill or good, or the one which allows you to slip away and let another be the scapegoat ?
Of course you do. Iron Bull discusses the subject of parents with you and how your character was raised.
Later on, Bull also asks the Inquisitor if his/her mercenary band is racially diverse like his own.
I was also disappointed with my inability to headbutt people and things.
Play a warrior next time to use charging bull. Also, Iron bull makes it a point the head butt is in effective in a fight.
snip...
No it's not. It do you station or die. If you are better at another job, ew move you up and then it do that station or die. Say what you want about the cultural freedom of the rest of thedas but no one is forcing everyone to do their jobs at the threat of killing their minds.
I completely agree here. So in my ideal/never going to happen DA 4, we can easily conceive of at least three types of character arcs:
1) The Ideal Qunari (Sten)
2) The Troubled Qunari (Bull)
3) The Fallen Qunari (become Tal-Vashoth, though not sure how well that would play out. Except perhaps random encounters with Qunari hunting you.).
And all the degrees between each. So a game as the Qunari is viable from an RP perspective.
Still, you were right originally, not a lot of room for other races. Except as converts.
That all qunari out side the organization. Were they in land not of the qun were their faiths are put to the line.
... It kind of does. Doubly so for a Player Character that operates in the same way.
Empty lip service with none of the commitment! Feels great to finally play a real Qunari.
Outside of the sex and drinking, how is IB not acting like a qunari? Most are only stoic with people of other cultures only because of the language barrier. Based on talis, Sten's nightmare in the fade, and the notes in trespasser they banter on like any other person but in qunlet.
Because the hair for the Qunari in the CC looks like someone took a dump on their head?
Dwarfs and Evles we don't get to chose what they are they are a Carat and Dailsh so dont wine about Qunari unless your prepared to just amounts of arguing over them as well. Besides Quin are this worlds Nazis and don't tell me they aren't because they are that's what there based off lead writer David said him self, no one should want to play a Nazi in less your insane.
Man, I would've loved to have had Iron Bull's body on my Inq, secondly his armor style while admittedly wrong for the Inquisitor I guess, is how I wished my Inquisitor could look.
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