24 Antworten in diesem Thema

[vertigomez]

That was probably weirdly phrased, but I'm in a hurry and didn't want to comb through a million YouTube videos to figure this out. If you pursue rivalry with Anders, does his dialogue/the game suggest that Hawke is super duper pro-Templar, or is there some nuance? Does it make any difference if you're a mage or not?

[renfrees]

Yeah, he does. If you are rivals, to him your Hawke is automatically supporting the templars. Just as if you are friends, then you're automatically pro-mage's freedom. That's the big downfall in Anders' writing, because you can pursue rivalry with him for entirely different reasons. His possession comes to mind, for example.

[vertigomez]

Yeah, he does. If you are rivals, to him your Hawke is automatically supporting the templars. Just as if you are friends, then you're automatically pro-mage's freedom. That's the big downfall in Anders' writing, because you can pursue rivalry with him for entirely different reasons. His possession comes to mind, for example.

Ahh, balls. I suspected as much. Thank you for the reply anyway.

I've always friended him by default but I don't really feel comfortable doing that anymore since I feel like I'm egging him on, which is... not what I want to do. He talks about Justice like we're buddies and meanwhile Hawke's over here like NO ANDERS NO. I favor mages in conversations/quests, but I tend to use the pussyfooting neutralish fence-sitter options like "there's got to be a better solution..."

It's a conundrum.

[renfrees]

I feel you. With other companions the friendship/rivalry is based on a more neutral and personal ground and leaves a room for roleplaying, but with Anders it's always with or against his grand goal.

 

Oh, and if you're rivaling him as a mage (since I skipped that part of your question), he tries to guilt-trip you based on your nature. Like "You're a mage, how could you..."

[vertigomez]

I feel you. With other companions the friendship/rivalry is based on a more neutral and personal ground and leaves a room for roleplaying, but with Anders it's always with or against his grand goal.
 
Oh, and if you're rivaling him as a mage (since I skipped that part of your question), he tries to guilt-trip you based on your nature. Like "You're a mage, how could you..."

Hnnnn... well, in that case I suppose you could view it not as a game mechanic ("the player is rivalling pro-mage Anders so they must be making pro-Templar choices") and more as Anders just taking an all-or-nothing, you're either with me or against me approach? Hell, maybe that's the intention. I've only seen snippets on YT so I'm not sure, but that seems... fairly IC? Maybe?

The other rivalries do seem rather more organic.

[renfrees]

Well, he was written as BPD (by the admission of his writer), but his conversations are rarely about him personally and inevitably turn to the mage's freedom. He doesn't distinguish personal disagreement from disagreement over his cause, so it's hard to immerse in rivaling him if you're not playing a pro-Circle Hawke.

[Qun00]

Is there another way to rival Anders?

[DebatableBubble]

Hnnnn... well, in that case I suppose you could view it not as a game mechanic ("the player is rivalling pro-mage Anders so they must be making pro-Templar choices") and more as Anders just taking an all-or-nothing, you're either with me or against me approach? Hell, maybe that's the intention. I've only seen snippets on YT so I'm not sure, but that seems... fairly IC? Maybe?

The other rivalries do seem rather more organic.

 

Seems to make the most sense. Anders doesn't exactly have all his cats meowing.

[Lythinae]

Is there another way to rival Anders?

 

Turn him down, deal with demons and be pro blood magic.  Quite a few of the red response with get you rivalry, as well.  Plus gifts, and at least one spot where you get either depending on what path you're on.

[congokong]

It's a package deal with him. If you're friends he assumes you're both pro-mage freedom and ok with him being an abomination. If you're rivals it's the opposite. Blame the game developers for not having your actual choices/dialogue affect his view.

[congokong]

Is there another way to rival Anders?

An easy way to earn a whopping 50 rivalry is to bring him with you during Night Terrors, say you'll make Feynriel tranquil if necessary, take Torpor's deal, and then tell him to shut it when he tries ratting you out.

[vertigomez]

It's a package deal with him. If you're friends he assumes you're both pro-mage freedom and ok with him being an abomination. If you're rivals it's the opposite. Blame the game developers for not having your actual choices/dialogue affect his view.

It's driving me nuuuuts. I've got to think of a way to headcanon around this.

[Lythinae]

It's driving me nuuuuts. I've got to think of a way to headcanon around this.

It's pretty realistic in a way, I think (at least from his perspective). I know people who think friends don't/can't argue or disagree, or that agreement on one issue means you agree with them on everything.

[Illegitimus]

It's driving me nuuuuts. I've got to think of a way to headcanon around this.

 

Why?  It's not about your character.  It's about his.  And he's a little bit nuts.  

[vertigomez]

It's pretty realistic in a way, I think (at least from his perspective). I know people who think friends don't/can't argue or disagree, or that agreement on one issue means you agree with them on everything.

Why?  It's not about your character.  It's about his.  And he's a little bit nuts.

If I think about it that way, it helps. So it's basically... if you disagree with him, you're a pawn of the Templars and if you agree with him, you also agree with his methods (or else, again, you're a pawn of the Templars ).

[thesuperdarkone2]

If you are diplomatic, it's less pro-templar as simly not agreeing with his extremism. The sarcastic and aggressive responses however do act like you are pro-templar.

[renfrees]

If you are diplomatic, it's less pro-templar as simly not agreeing with his extremism. The sarcastic and aggressive responses however do act like you are pro-templar.

It's hard to achieve rivalry with him by being diplomatic. He reacts badly to sarcasm and bluntness, but blue options mostly net friendship, so you really have to be pro-Templar to rival him with diplomatic Hawke.

[congokong]

A little off-topic, but since we're discussing rival Anders I'm curious. Does anyone else think he's a bit of a dick to romanced Hawke by dumping him/her if they take Torpor's deal in Night Terrors? Think about it. If you do it because the demon manipulated you the way they do to all your companions minus Anders (whose already possessed), and admit to it, it's very harsh for Anders to break up with you for not being strong enough to resist. There's no option for Hawke to dump Fenris, Merrill, or Isabela for turning on them in the fade.

 

Anders just has a merciless "you made a deal with a demon" view despite the irony that he himself willingly let a spirt possess him; turning Justice into a demon.

[Lythinae]

It is, but it's also pretty IC, I thought. He's got a kind of black and white thing going on when it comes to demons (which is probably Justice's influence ... from memory, he's a lot like that in Awakenings, and does the whole 'I'm a spirit, not a demon and they're totally different' thing).

[Qun00]

That's the interesting thing about Justice in DA2.

He's absolutely unaware that he has changed.

[congokong]

That's the interesting thing about Justice in DA2.

He's absolutely unaware that he has changed.

Let him kill Elia. That really helps bring the point home.

[vertigomez]

Let him kill Elia. That really helps bring the point home.

I think it reeeeaally hammers it in when, after he kills her, he says he's going to her funeral and pinning her death on the Templars. Presumably because if there were no Templars, mages wouldn't be in danger... and if no mages were in danger there'd be no need for Justice... and somehow or 'nother Ella would be less dead.

justice u zany spirit u

edit; I'm tempted to delete this post because I can't find this scene anywhere on youtube, but I'm pretty sure this is what happened in my first playthrough

[renfrees]

I think it's an ambient banter if you click on him after Dissent.

[vertigomez]

^Ah, thank you. Knew I saw it somewhere.

[Qun00]

I think it reeeeaally hammers it in when, after he kills her, he says he's going to her funeral and pinning her death on the Templars. Presumably because if there were no Templars, mages wouldn't be in danger... and if no mages were in danger there'd be no need for Justice... and somehow or 'nother Ella would be less dead.

justice u zany spirit u

edit; I'm tempted to delete this post because I can't find this scene anywhere on youtube, but I'm pretty sure this is what happened in my first playthrough

I suppose Anders actually feels more guilty if you stop him from killing her.