CoD is pretty much the definition of stagnation. They release virtually the same game every year.
Although I don't think Mass Effect as a series is suffering stagnation. If it were however then switching things up could be a great benefit, similar to what a focus on ship based combat did for Assassin's Creed IV.
[big snip about the evolution of humanity]
Uh-huh. Right, well, as soon you find another way of doing things, you let me know. Because it sounds like you're arguing pretty hard for FPS system, which I can quote to you if you'd like me to. Would you like for me to do that?
As for the rest of you temper tantrum, I have never said that third-person perspective as a design choice is bad, or equals stagnation if you stick to it. I just happen to enjoy the idea of seeing how a Mass Effect game would turn out in first person perspective. I would also be interested how a Mass Effect game would play as a turn based game, say XCom as an easy and relatable example. That also doesn't necessitate the need that the Mass Effect IP getting a first person game, or specifically a first person shooter game, equals that there will be no more third person games as we know it. I want more, not just the same in a different way, let alone less, I'm selfish like that.
Uh-huh. Right. "I said X, which leads to Y and Z, but I NEVER said Y and Z specifically!" This is beside the point, that you did say specifically those things.
You are pedantic and looking for an argument.
No.
I would love to see a first person perspective Mass Effect game, but simply making it an option alongside third person is never going to work out.
FP needs different gameplay and level design for one thing as you can't look around visual obstructions that your character can't physically do as it goes in TP, the entire combat system wouldn't fit and that's just assuming you'd want the FP only during the gameplay parts. If you want the entire game in FP, what about cutscenes, dialogues, etc.? It can be done, but it's essentially creating a second complete set of presentation, not just a cheap camera toggle.
FP ME, hell yes, would like to get one, but only one that was conceptionalized as one from the get-go with the devs building for and exploiting all the strengths of the FP perspective!
Welcome to stagnation and creative sterility.
CoD is pretty much the definition of stagnation. They release virtually the same game every year.
Although I don't think Mass Effect as a series is suffering stagnation. If it were however then switching things up could be a great benefit, similar to what a focus on ship based combat did for Assassin's Creed IV.
I actually think a big issue people have here is that as soon as they hear FPS, they automatically think CoD and then project proposed changes against that silhuoette.
And since a lot of people don't like CoD (for many understandable reasons), prejudice ensues.
___
Uh-huh. Right, well, as soon you find another way of doing things, you let me know. Because it sounds like you're arguing pretty hard for FPS system, which I can quote to you if you'd like me to. Would you like for me to do that?
Uh-huh. Right. "I said X, which leads to Y and Z, but I NEVER said Y and Z specifically!" This is beside the point, that you did say specifically those things.
You are pedantic and looking for an argument.
You don't actually want to understand, do you? I have made it abundantly clear what I meant with my initial response you take such offense at.
And please: show me where I said that that third person perspective or some such equals stagnation.
Or explain to me how arguing in favour for a first person ME game means I think that the ME series is stagnating or whatever it is you're so hung up about.
This whole argumentative shtick of yours:
I said X, which leads to Y and Z, but I NEVER said Y and Z specifically!
... is just you putting words into my mouth.
I never said anything about ME, or any other game for that matter, suffering creative stagnation/sterility. Not have I pointed that accusation at any specific person.
I had targeted the quoted mindset, I had emphasized that AND explained it when it was apparent that you didn't get my meaning.
The cause for your indignation doesn't exist.
The only one being pedantic and argumentative is you in your continued show of lack of intent to understand me and picking on hilariously vague, far-off interpretations of things you think I meant as opposed to what I actually said.
I never said anything about ME, or any other game for that matter, suffering creative stagnation/sterility.
I've done that, and still you deny. So, now it's time to break out the T word. Troll.
.
I've done that, and still you deny. So, now it's time to break out the T word. Troll.
I've done that, and still you deny. So, now it's time to break out the T word. Troll.
The style of your posting, Fidite, is one of, "Hey, look I'm saying this X, which leads to Y and Z, but I never said Y or Z." This is a pedantic way of arguing.
In real world terms, you want for ME to go FPS, but when I posted something about "Why fix what isn't broken?" you retort with, "Welcome to stagnation and creative sterility."
My response was directed at the part that I quoted and only that as I had already emphasized.
It's just, why change what ain't broken?
In case you need me to explain that: changing things that weren't disfunctional is a constant throught human evolution. We as a species have a shtick of creating tools. When simply walking wasn't all that dandy (despite being PERFECTLY functional (see where I am getting at?)), the wheel was invented. When dragging those wheeled carts by themselves was tiresome (and still perfectly functional, as in: not broken), we strung domesticated animals to it to do that job.
Why? Because it turned out to be better that way. Just because something is working, doesn't mean it can't be improved. But when you have a mentality of "don't fix what ain't broken", none of that will happen. And as such, the mindset is stupid and unrealistic as the history of humanity constantly violated the spirit of that saying has proven innumerous times.
It's extremely pedantic and factually incorrect. Let's take the first part of that statement and break it down. There has got to be something to stagnate.
Now, you could, and probably will, say that third person perspective is stagnation.
Okay. I'll accept that. Only if you accept this. What about CoD? What about Battlefield? What about Halo? Aren't those games suffering from the same stagnation as ME, in their FPS perspective? Why aren't you over on their boards screaming that they switch it up to third person perspective? Simply to avoid stagnation?
Welcome to creative sterility. Wow, going after someone's artistic vision and their manhood all in one fell swoop. Whew.
Ignoring that, I ask you what is the alternative? FPS?
I'll go with my answer to that question above. Why aren't you over on Halo's board shaking the pillars of heaven trying to get them to switch it over to a third person perspective simply because it leads to ... Oh what was it again? Artistic distress syndrome? Is that it? I forget.
Beside this, the developers are going to do what they want to do. I hope, meaning I pray, that it'll be in third person perspective. And I know what response this will garner. "Well, then you have nothing to worry about."
Please go away.
Obvious to whom? I didn't foresee it.In that case you should've clarified as such in the first place, because that's the obvious interpretation if you respond like you did after a direct quote.
But if the character isn't shown on-screen in the game, we may as well just import a 2D portrait rather than fiddle with a character creator.I feel like I wasted so much time in my table top RPGs describing a characters appearance now.
Lbh Bioware(or should i say EA) has clearly been dumbing down its combat to attract the casual COD/GOW crowd.
A. implying that the old "vaguely aim at the enemy and pray the dice rolls let you hit the target" system a la ME1 is better than a legitimately skill-based shooting system.
B. implying that a game like Gears of War's combat system doesn't have complexity.
Why is it that people (on this board specifically, since I don't see it anywhere else) put Call of Duty and Gears of War into the same group? They play -nothing- like each other.
Why not go all out an add a fps feature to it, GTA did it(and it was a success) and the new Fallout has the option for it.
A. implying that GTA has been dumbed down because of it.
B. forgetting that Fallout has had a first person option for almost 8 years.
COD in space will sell very well, do it.
A. this is stupid.
B. like, really stupid.
Obvious to whom? I didn't foresee it.
I referred to "calls". Not "your calls".
Obvious as in you quoted a post of mine and posed a question referencing the statement in said quote.
It's natural to assume you responded to the quoted statement. Hence my response on the basis that you were referring to mine and what I assumed you believe I said, prompting my question. Which was answered in a way that did little to dispel any brewing misunderstanding and thus we landed at this point.
Are we on the same page now?
But if the character isn't shown on-screen in the game, we may as well just import a 2D portrait rather than fiddle with a character creator.
But then, I think these games should all let us import a portrait anyway.
If first person I would not be opposed though there are many situations where you might be seen in game for short periods. Mirrors, cut scenes, certain animations like going to bed.
It would be funny though if you were playing in first person and each time you look into a mirror, it shows your imported portrait which just happens to be a trollface.jpeg as a harmless example.
OP, try harder if you want to troll, this is like the third topic I've seen with this subject lol
I've said this once, but I will say it again. The minute ME becomes an FPS I will stop buying it.
Thank the Maker Mass Effect isn't going to be an FPS game anytime soon.
Thank the Maker Mass Effect isn't going to be an FPS game anytime soon.
I still maintain that a story driven ME game with the twist of being entirely first person perspective (cutscenes, dialogues ... romances (Oculus Rift damnit!)) could turn out to be a very enjoyable thing to play if it's done right.
Not to replace the third person games, but something in addition to it. Maybe once BioWare has grown large enough to afford a developing team to work on such projects without compromising efforts on other games. And who knows, maybe a good game like this could warm up some of the more resistant BioWare fans to look outside their previous comfort zone and enjoy other games they never looked at beforehand. Win-Win scenario (unless of course such a game turns out being crap ...) !
So, next line of thought ... first person Dragon Age game anyone?
You were responding to someone whi was questioning why a change was valuable, and the change in question was to make this game like other popular games.Obvious as in you quoted a post of mine and posed a question referencing the statement in said quote.
It's natural to assume you responded to the quoted statement. Hence my response on the basis that you were referring to mine and what I assumed you believe I said, prompting my question. Which was answered in a way that did little to dispel any brewing misunderstanding and thus we landed at this point.
Are we on the same page now?
I still maintain that a story driven ME game with the twist of being entirely first person perspective (cutscenes, dialogues ... romances (Oculus Rift damnit!)) could turn out to be a very enjoyable thing to play if it's done right.
Not to replace the third person games, but something in addition to it. Maybe once BioWare has grown large enough to afford a developing team to work on such projects without compromising efforts on other games. And who knows, maybe a good game like this could warm up some of the more resistant BioWare fans to look outside their previous comfort zone and enjoy other games they never looked at beforehand. Win-Win scenario (unless of course such a game turns out being crap ...) !
So, next line of thought ... first person Dragon Age game anyone?
Spoiler
I guess I'm just super stubborn, but there's just nothing an entirely first person perspective game could really do that would make me enjoy that design more. The game could be well written and have a really good story, but however enjoyable it would be would only be on account of that and that alone. The first-person design simply has zero appeal to me.
You were responding to someone whi was questioning why a change was valuable, and the change in question was to make this game like other popular games.
But more importantly, there's more than just us here. When I write something here, I'm aware that I have a much larger audience than just the person I'm quoting. Yes, I'm responding to your quote, but I'm doing so for the whole audience.
This is why I've never understoof the appeal of Facebook. There, the audience is typically everyone the user knows, and I can't imagine what I would ever want to say to all of them at once.
I understand. I simply operate on a smaller, more personal scale with people I'm not talking to considered as bystanders, so I understood your response the same way. Glad we have that cleared up, knowing this will also be helpful when adressing your comments in the future.
As for Facebook ... urrgh Facebook. That is all.
I guess I'm just super stubborn, but there's just nothing an entirely first person perspective game could really do that would make me enjoy that design more. The game could be well written and have a really good story, but however enjoyable it would be would only be on account of that and that alone. The first-person design simply has zero appeal to me.
To each their own. I can just tell from my own experience that I was rather passionately anti-shooter in the past, never saw the appeal to it. I was actually rather reluctant to buy Mass Effect 1, but in the end boredom won me over. One of the best spontanous decisions in my gaming "career".
Sometimes you just need a bit incentive and I'd wager that a known and well liked IP would be a better incentive to try out something one never liked much than simple boredom.
Aaaaaand sometimes it backfires and you just wasted money on a game you're never going to bother and finish ... *looking at you Assassin's Creed*
Had it both.
I'm just a selfish, demanding guy who wants more. More this, more that, more everything (except more bills, I hate bills).
I still maintain that a story driven ME game with the twist of being entirely first person perspective (cutscenes, dialogues ... romances (Oculus Rift damnit!)) could turn out to be a very enjoyable thing to play if it's done right.
Not to replace the third person games, but something in addition to it. Maybe once BioWare has grown large enough to afford a developing team to work on such projects without compromising efforts on other games. And who knows, maybe a good game like this could warm up some of the more resistant BioWare fans to look outside their previous comfort zone and enjoy other games they never looked at beforehand. Win-Win scenario (unless of course such a game turns out being crap ...) !
So, next line of thought ... first person Dragon Age game anyone?
Spoiler
As much as I've argued for Mass Effect proper staying TPS, having something be FPS could bring people into it. I mean, a lot of people were vehemently opposed to MP before Mass Effect 3. I imagine because a lot of people again thought "It'll be just like CoD!".
and then DAMP just kind of messed things up and it wasn't all that great sadly.
I think playing Dragon Age in first person using 2 or Inquisition's mages animations would make me dizzy.
As much as I've argued for Mass Effect proper staying TPS, having something be FPS could bring people into it. I mean, a lot of people were vehemently opposed to MP before Mass Effect 3. I imagine because a lot of people again thought "It'll be just like CoD!".
and then DAMP just kind of messed things up and it wasn't all that great sadly.
I think playing Dragon Age in first person using 2 or Inquisition's mages animations would make me dizzy.
Yup.
Also, ehehe 
I still maintain that a story driven ME game with the twist of being entirely first person perspective
Valve could do it with Half-Life and Portal, and Frictional could do it with... Every game they've released so far. In regards to Frictional, SOMA is especially effective the way it plays the entire game out in first-person. There are no cutscenes, and very few truly scripted events. That latter part may be more difficult given ME's more action heavy style (whereas SOMA is about solving environmental puzzles and exploring and reading bits of backstory through the environment while avoiding monsters), but Valve has shown that a totally first-person viewpoint is possible with regular gameplay in a shooter scenario.
So, next line of thought ... first person Dragon Age game anyone?
I would love to play a game like Dragon Age from a first-person perspective, actually. The only other first-person fantasy-esque games I can think of are the Dark Messiah of Might and Magic games, Chivalry: Medieval Warfare (which isn't really a fantasy game as much as it's a deathmatch game set during the dark ages), and the Elder Scrolls games. Some other first-person games have swords and melee weapons in their combat, but very few have made it the core central component, and I think the magic would especially interesting to play with in first-person.
First-person DA sounds horrible. Having my rogue live with tunnel vision is bad juju.
First-person DA sounds horrible. Having my rogue live with tunnel vision is bad juju.
You shouldn't have tunnel vision unless you either played with extremely low FOV or played on a console with no way to change the FOV.
It doesn't matter. The field of view is always going to be relatively narrow.
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