15 respuestas en este tema

[Nikkolas]

So when I first played Origins last year, I never paid much attention to Sten. I was just confounded by him. Every other companion you could easily feel out or  read and thus you knew what to say to gain Approval. With Sten though his responses and tone were so shor tand uniform that I never could guess what I should say or do.

 

The  result was I had next to know knowledge or interest in the Qunari going  into II.  I think it was during Shepherding Wolves that the Qun really started to interest me. Ketojan was fascinating for such a short-lived character. In my first run I ended up killing the qunari forces tha tshowed up there so Ketojan killed himself. The game gives you the option of trying to stop him but my Hawke let him do it. It felt like it  would be...well, the height of insult to step in. This was the path ha - no, the Qun - had chosen and to try an ddissuade him would be a grievous offense.

 

It was in reply to this capitulation on my part that  Ketojan said something akin to "your role would change very little under the Qun."

 

His words and his end stayed with me the rest of the game. I got "A Worthy Rival' with the Arishok without even trying and I ended up giving him Isabela. Talking with Tallis and learning more about the Qun from an outsider's  perspective was the best  part  of Mark of the Assassin for me.

 

Of all the beliefs and organizations in Thedas, the Qun holds the greatest appeal to me. Their devtion to duty, the way the Qun gives everyone a place, the Arishok's very credible criticisms of how it is this very  lack of a "set role" that has led Kirkwall into becoming such a craphole - all these things spoke to me.

 

Did  anyone  else feel the same way? At the very least I think the characterization of he qunari is one of DA2's strongest points.

 

 

[congokong]

I think the qun is interesting if not loathsome. The ideal of any political system is to serve the people. The qun is the complete opposite. The people serve the system. The system is preserved with no real regard to the lives of those that serve it ...for what? What's the point of a political system if it doesn't serve its people? And the qun removes all autonomy from the individual. Humans have a natural need for freedom of choice, and being restricted brings about many negative psychological effects. Many can adapt to this sort of slavery better than others. Those who can't get Quamek. That's assuming they live. The Qun demands that its adherents not accept those not like them. What they can't accept, they convert. What they can't convert, they enslave. What they can't enslave, they kill.

 

This is just the short version.

[Fylimar]

I agree with congokong. Although Sten was one of my favorite companions (basically be honest with him like you do with the Arishok, to get the worthy rival title), the Qun is too strict. As I said in the Sebastian Vael thread, I have a problem with religious zealots and people, trying to convert you at all costs. That's what the Qunari do. That doesn't mean, that storywise the Qun and it's followers are not inetresting - on the contrary -, but they are too strict and too narrow in their world view.

That said, I still like the Qunari in the game, they make for some good stories - Saarebas/Ketojan was already mentioned, the Viscounts son and his admiration for the Qunari is a nice storyline too and of course the Arishok is an interesting character, despite me not agreeing with most of what he says. I do agree with him about his view of Kirkwall - especially after I found the 'Enigma of Kirkwall' pieces, but his solution to conquer the city was of course wrong.

[straykat]

Never found them interesting per se. I love Act 2 and the buildup, but I don't have any complex thoughts about the Qun. It's just something I want to get rid of. Maybe that's the only thing I appreciate about the the Arishok. "Certainty". We're both sure of what we want to get rid of. But I'm not certain about a lot else. That's the difference. It's bizarre to have boundaries and definitions for everything.

 

But I can appreciate that Bioware is trying to portray something this insane with a straight face. It can be funny sometimes.. like with Sten/DAO.

[Jeradon]

Well I am fascinated by the normative approach of the Qunari. It took me a while to get the hang of Sten's thinking, and I was impressed by the Qunari as they appear in DAII. However it is clear that the Qun simply does not envisage the expression of free will. Individuals have to accept the existence of predicted events, and subject themselves to the outcome of the events. The Shepherding Wolves quest is the perfect illustration of that way of thinking.

Unfortunately for the Qunari,  Garett Hawke is the perfect example of the survivor overcoming all odds.

[KaiserShep]

I'd totally loathe anything remotely like the Qun. I like my freedom of expression and oppose set roles in society and chemically induced brainwashing.

[congokong]

I agree with congokong. Although Sten was one of my favorite companions (basically be honest with him like you do with the Arishok, to get the worthy rival title), the Qun is too strict.

One thing I dislike about their prerequisite for respect being honesty is how dishonest qunari can be. They sign treaties so their enemies will lower their guard, the Arishok lies about a ship coming, the qunari won't say why they're in Kirkwall, the Arishok secretly plans to attack Kirkwall, the qunari place spies everywhere, etc. They may enjoy people being upfront with them as it leaves them more vulnerable to being qun-dominated, but the qunari don't return the favor. Thinking otherwise is dangerous.

[KaiserShep]

I don't believe that the Arishok was secretly planning to attack Kirkwall. I always got the impression that it was a last minute decision. If Hawke acquired the tome and then gave it to the qunari making up whatever story they like, they might have simply left, though they might still fight Hawke to the death for some Qun-y reason.

[straykat]

I don't believe that the Arishok was secretly planning to attack Kirkwall. I always got the impression that it was a last minute decision. If Hawke acquired the tome and then gave it to the qunari making up whatever story they like, they might have simply left, though they might still fight Hawke to the death for some Qun-y reason.

 

I think it's a mix. By "secret", I think the earlier poster meant the lines when Arishok is grumbling about whether he should do something about the city.

 

But he was also backed into a corner. Especially with Petrice and him vying for/using the Elves.

[Beerfish]

The Qun is ridiculous nonsense and the Arishok in DA2 was an out right buffoon a total incompetent oaf.  A few of the general, very very general concepts of the Qun seem reasonable but the way they put it into practice is a huge fail.

[congokong]

I don't believe that the Arishok was secretly planning to attack Kirkwall. I always got the impression that it was a last minute decision. If Hawke acquired the tome and then gave it to the qunari making up whatever story they like, they might have simply left, though they might still fight Hawke to the death for some Qun-y reason.

He was preparing to do it if he didn't get his book.

 

Aveline: "The qunari are moving through the city and fast. The Arishok planned this for who knows how long."

[renfrees]

Of course he had it planned (I suspect long before he actually attacked.) He didn't become the Arishok for nothing.

[Fylimar]

I think, he planned it in case it has to be done for whatever reason. But imo he would not have gone through with it, hadn't Petrice & followers not tried so hard, to make them feel unwelcome. That is not an excuse, I think, Fenris was right when he said, that the Arishok is no ones friend, but here we have two culprits: the one trying to provoke and the one who did not wait that long to feel provoked. A very unhealthy combination.

 

Oh - and about Qunari and honesty: it's a two#sided sword, because they are very close minded when it comes to 'bas'. Imo they think, they deserve honesty and respect for belonging to the Qun, but someone not of the Qun and not honoured with some funny Qunari title, seems not entitled to that same respect.

SO, yes, Quanri have a lot of double standards and prejudices, I still like Sten

[Jeradon]

Oh - and about Qunari and honesty: it's a two#sided sword, because they are very close minded when it comes to 'bas'. Imo they think, they deserve honesty and respect for belonging to the Qun, but someone not of the Qun and not honoured with some funny Qunari title, seems not entitled to that same respect.

 

I agree. It you live within the Qun you seem worthy of respect. If do not follow the Qun, you are just good enough to be "brought to the Qun" (i.e. "civilized" by whichever expedient.

[SwobyJ]

The world will go into enough chaos at some point that a player, whether years or over a decade from now (IRL), may find tempting the 'Qunari Choice'. We will see the alternative as too risky, and we will learn enough of the Qun and see enough (albeit always limited) flexibility with them that many players will support the Qunari. They seek to engineer the world, and possibly eventually the 'cosmos'.

 

Muh theory.

 

 

But so far, screw them. DAO, I'm anti-Qun, DA2, I'm anti-Qun, DAI, I'm almost completely anti-Qun. I'll be a bad student and I'm totally OK with that.

[dgcatanisiri]

I think the Qun is an interesting concept, and I can see why 'everyone has their role in society' has its appeal. But Hawke sums it up well in conversation with the Arishok - 'he is free to choose to obey?' It seems like it's destined to collapse in on itself over time, because people can't be slotted so easily into certain roles.